Summerfield estate to the Blanch centre - why no pedestrian route through the wall??

Diddler1977

BostonB wrote: »

Bit of a case of Rose tinted glass there, Corduff was never out of the news back then. It had a terrible reputation, even a no go area for the cops at times.

Really!

When were you living in Corduff that this was happening?

Diddler1977

BostonB wrote: »

Kinda missing the point. Its got nothing to do with me. I don't live there, its not on my route to anywhere. You have to prove/persuade the residents. Sounding off here isn't going to achieve anything. Even if everyone here agreed with you. It still achieves nothing.

I agree!

We need to band together here and start lobbying our councillors to get the wall opened up to pedestrians & cyclists.

BostonB

You need to lobby the residents.

A V A

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Great! That is what that green space is for.

That is a brilliant result of an opening in the wall being made.

This is exactly the social behaviour that we need to see in D15.......along with people walking and cycling through the gap.

@diddler1977 , what age are you like?? . that hole in the wall is not what we need , it will cause some sort of social behavior ,about 15% to be honest!!! as i said ,coming from a young person i can see first hand at what goes on and what kids do around blanch along with the anti social behavior that goes on!! to think that the hole in the wall will make the etstate and community, come out smelling like rose's is a pure joke, if you think that you must be in your late 20's or over!giving examples of how it was when you were younger and what you use to do or where you use to be able to walk to or what ever , is just another story, times have changed ,the youth arent what they use to be or how they went on!!! look at roselawn ,they have terrible problems with kids hanging around causing sh*t!!! and i dont know how tallagh came into this ,were talking about summerfield!!!

Gaspode

OK amdublin take it easy there, no need to get personal. There may be spelling mistakes, but the meaning is clear enough.

AVA, also keep away from personal attacks. Stick to the topic please.

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

@diddler1977 , what age are you like?? . that hole in the wall is not what we need , it will cause some sort of social behavior ,about 15% to be honest!!! as i said ,coming from a young person i can see first hand at what goes on and what kids do around blanch along with the anti social behavior that goes on!! to think that the hole in the wall will make the etstate and community, come out smelling like rose's is a pure joke, if you think that you must be in your late 20's or over!giving examples of how it was when you were younger and what you use to do or where you use to be able to walk to or what ever , is just another story, times have changed ,the youth arent what they use to be or how they went on!!! look at roselawn ,they have terrible problems with kids hanging around causing sh*t!!! and i dont know how tallagh came into this ,were talking about summerfield!!!

My age is none of your business.

I like to think that as citizens of Dublin, Ireland we would have aspirations to live in the best community that we can have. I believe in social capital and active citizenship. I like to see the best in people. I also don't like to see fat kids and parents driving to the centre.

For the above reasons I would like to see the wall opened.

I want all citizens to be encouraged to walk or use their bike rather then going places by car. To do this we need to open walkways so that pedestrians can take the most speedy route to their destination.

The great thing about walkers and cyclists is that we don't need a big walkway or cycleway. Whole roads don't have to be opened to allow us pass through. All we need is a hole in the wall.

Diddler1977

BostonB wrote: »

You need to lobby the residents.

The residents don't own this area. It is a public space. We are all entitled to have a voice in relation to this area.

BostonB

This thread is 4 yrs old. With zero progress. I think a change in tactics might be an idea.

You don't need a hole in the wall to cycle. Its like 5~10 mins max.

Gaspode

Zero progress indeed.
You know, I've had my finger poised over the Kill button a few times in the past few years (started Jan 08!) for this thread. Discussion of issues is good, but that disappeared a long time ago and both camps are now dug into their trenches and not looking over the top any more.

The end is nigh...........

A V A

Diddler1977 wrote: »

My age is none of your business.

I like to think that as citizens of Dublin, Ireland we would have aspirations to live in the best community that we can have. I believe in social capital and active citizenship. I like to see the best in people. I also don't like to see fat kids and parents driving to the centre.

For the above reasons I would like to see the wall opened.

I want all citizens to be encouraged to walk or use their bike rather then going places by car. To do this we need to open walkways so that pedestrians can take the most speedy route to their destination.

The great thing about walkers and cyclists is that we don't need a big walkway or cycleway. Whole roads don't have to be opened to allow us pass through. All we need is a hole in the wall.

wasnt meant to offend. but the way you were going on showed me that you were an older resident
your reasons sounds like a personal prerogative on how the country health should be ,yes it benefits the country but not summerfield,it wont do this on its own and encourage kids/people to get up and walk more or cycle!! the hole in the wall will just be abused and used ,they should be able to walk around the full way and not be lazy,they're not saying to them selfs,'im not going to go out for a walk or a cycle because theres no hole in that summerfield wall".making a hole in the wall to encourage people to get out and excercise is pathetic reason!!
if you wanted kids to loose weight why not courage them to go the whole way instead of a cop out and taking short cuts , surely that wont teach them anything

as said above , this thread is four years old , still nothing has been done, and when something trys to be done ,me and others will fight against this idea !!

Luttrell1975

BostonB wrote: »

Kinda missing the point. Its got nothing to do with me. I don't live there, its not on my route to anywhere. You have to prove/persuade the residents. Sounding off here isn't going to achieve anything. Even if everyone here agreed with you. It still achieves nothing.

With all due respect, whether it achieves something or is sounding off is up to me. But you commenting on something being "sounding off", on a public message board where people come to discuss isssues about Blanch....is strangely futile.

You want to complain there was no proof of such an access being fine, but then when I provide it you shift the goalposts two miles up the road. Thanks again.

Luttrell1975

Diddler1977 wrote: »

The residents don't own this area. It is a public space. We are all entitled to have a voice in relation to this area.

Diddler. You are absolutely right here but so many people are only focused on their "own" estate that people who live in places like Summerfield who are not any kind of majority are left to decide the issue on their own. They throw in the murder rate in Blanchardstown, child abuse, mass shopping related parking, people playing football, litter, and their privacy as reasons to leave the estate choked off.

The trump card is that they "own" the green, even though it is the other taxpayers who own that piece of ground too. Those other taxpayers will pay for their paranoia, and the environment cost, the broken community cost, their health costs and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkability

Is it any wonder the IMF and the EU run this country, given that people who reason things out this way are "the voting public" so to speak?

Godge

BostonB wrote: »

This thread is 4 yrs old. With zero progress. I think a change in tactics might be an idea.

You don't need a hole in the wall to cycle. Its like 5~10 mins max.

Kind of missing the point about cycling. There are cycle paths on the other side of the wall inaccessible to the residents of Summerfield.

There are no cycle paths on the Clonsilla Road. There is more chance of a child resident of Summerfield being killed or seriously injured from cycling on the Clonsilla Road than there is of anyone being killed or seriously injured by opening the wall.

The lack of vision, defensiveness, paranoia, nimbyism among the residents against the wall being opened is incredible.

A V A

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Diddler. You are absolutely right here but so many people are only focused on their "own" estate that people who live in places like Summerfield who are not any kind of majority are left to decide the issue on their own. They throw in the murder rate in Blanchardstown, child abuse, mass shopping related parking, people playing football, litter, and their privacy as reasons to leave the estate choked off.

The trump card is that they "own" the green, even though it is the other taxpayers who own that piece of ground too. Those other taxpayers will pay for their paranoia, and the environment cost, the broken community cost, their health costs and so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkability

Is it any wonder the IMF and the EU run this country, given that people who reason things out this way are "the voting public" so to speak?

yes and you lads are quick to compare another place thats ever so peacefull and quite that has social behavior with an open pubic space!!!! i never said i "owned" anything, i own my property ,that people wreck and pass on a constant basis due to that wall!!! im protecting the fact that i dont want problems to be added on top of whats already there!! "i pay my taxs" thats a trump card , would you be kind enough to accept that from a person thats just after throwing rubbish on your property or someone thats in your garden or after belting a football of your car and denting it ???? nah i dont think so, thats is an absolute ridiculous statement by you to make!!!

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

@diddler1977 , what age are you like?? . that hole in the wall is not what we need , it will cause some sort of social behavior ,about 15% to be honest!!! as i said ,coming from a young person i can see first hand at what goes on and what kids do around blanch along with the anti social behavior that goes on!! to think that the hole in the wall will make the etstate and community, come out smelling like rose's is a pure joke, if you think that you must be in your late 20's or over!giving examples of how it was when you were younger and what you use to do or where you use to be able to walk to or what ever , is just another story, times have changed ,the youth arent what they use to be or how they went on!!! look at roselawn ,they have terrible problems with kids hanging around causing sh*t!!! and i dont know how tallagh came into this ,were talking about summerfield!!!

A V A wrote: »

yes and you lads are quick to compare another place thats ever so peacefull and quite that has social behavior with an open pubic space!!!! i never said i "owned" anything, i own my property ,that people wreck and pass on a constant basis due to that wall!!! im protecting the fact that i dont want problems to be added on top of whats already there!! "i pay my taxs" thats a trump card , would you be kind enough to accept that from a person thats just after throwing rubbish on your property or someone thats in your garden or after belting a football of your car and denting it ???? nah i dont think so, thats is an absolute ridiculous statement by you to make!!!

I have no idea what you are trying to get across in these posts.

You are posting a big load of unintelligible ramblings.

BostonB

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

With all due respect, whether it achieves something or is sounding off is up to me. But you commenting on something being "sounding off", on a public message board where people come to discuss isssues about Blanch....is strangely futile.

You want to complain there was no proof of such an access being fine, but then when I provide it you shift the goalposts two miles up the road. Thanks again.

Actually I was suggesting it as a way of you getting the right information with which to persuade the residents. That some stats of crime, etc a where an opening was created vs when it was closed, would go a long way. Or house values/ rental increasing etc. I can't comment on Westpark. I don't know it. I don't see the path on Google maps. I know nothing of what happened when it was closed vs when it was opened. But if you do, then thats something to bring to the residents or council. I don't think another 4yrs of this thread will achieve it though.

amdublin

A V A wrote: »

what ???? not our property ?? when my family moved into summerfield ,it was a private estate!!!! i want to hold onto the wall but that doesnt make me anti social , and im far from it!!!!!

Whether or not you can walk through the estate does not change it from being a private estate.
There are hundreds of estates in D15 that you can walk through. These are still "private" estates

Eg. Mount Symon
Charnwood
Portersgate
Tyrellstown
Ongar
Brookhaven
Lohunda
Edgeworth Lawn

I am not sure what your definition of "private" estate is.

There are also other estates beside nightclubs. For example Chesterfield beside the old End nightclub in the Phoenix Park.
Why is summerfield so special?
Why do you think that because of the small possibility of people causing trouble in the estate at night it has to stay closed during the day causing difficulty to people who do not want to cause trouble.

A compromise could be a gate that is locked at night.
What would your opinions be of that as a compromise?

BostonB

Godge wrote: »

Kind of missing the point about cycling. There are cycle paths on the other side of the wall inaccessible to the residents of Summerfield.

There are no cycle paths on the Clonsilla Road. There is more chance of a child resident of Summerfield being killed or seriously injured from cycling on the Clonsilla Road than there is of anyone being killed or seriously injured by opening the wall.

The lack of vision, defensiveness, paranoia, nimbyism among the residents against the wall being opened is incredible.

Unfortunately cycle lane safety "opinion" isn't always backed up by the facts.

A thorough before-after study from Copenhagen, Denmark, shows that cycling accidents went up by over ten percent when cycle tracks were built.

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2508/Bikeways-cause-string-of-fatal-bike-accidents-in-Germany.aspx#ixzz1maaaQ6hr

Personally I think they can be useful. But many of them, especially in D.15 are extremely badly designed. If they were designed properly they bring other benefits. But in general cycling is actually very safe statistically.

If you can't cycle because theres no cycle paths, they'd have a problem getting into the shopping center. Because they stop once your through that first roundabout. In fact the cycle lanes start and stop all over the place with no logic.

BostonB

amdublin wrote: »

....There are also other estates besides nightclubs. For example Chesterfield beside the old End nightclub in the Phoenix Park.
...

Wow showing your age there, the End. I still shudder at the food they used to do. The End was there before Chesterfield, and not many walked to it. Not when I walked to it anyway! I don't remember when the End closed but I thought it was before Chesterfield was built. If not it was around that time. But its so long ago I could be completely wrong.

The End. :eek: Now that takes me back.

A V A

this thread is going no where , its been open for four years,people are just repeating them selfs.

when the day comes that we have to meat as an estate i will see you there, with plenty others that are not boards.ie, this will not go ahead and i look forward to it

amdublin

BostonB wrote: »

Wow showing your age there, the End. I still shudder at the food they used to do. The End was there before Chesterfield, and not many walked to it. Not when I walked to it anyway! I don't remember when the End closed but I thought it was before Chesterfield was built. If not it was around that time. But its so long ago I could be completely wrong.

The End. :eek: Now that takes me back.

Are you sure you are not thinking of Heartbreakers rather than The End.

You say not many people walked to it......dude everyone in the surrounding areas of Castleknock, Navan Road walked to it. It closed approx. 94/95 - no Celtic tiger then, people didn't hop into taxis wily nily then. Jeez I remember people from Blanch and Cabra walking to it and home.
When the club closed the amount of people outside walking home was waaaaay more than those outside Light - who now wait for taxis because that's what we do now.

What is so special about Summerfield that if a hole is put in the wall everyone is immediately going to charge over from Light into summerfield?

AVA I raised a new point which has not been raised before but you are not addressing it and now seem determined to derail the thread, seems to me you are subtly campaigning for it to be closed.
I also find your last post somewhat threatening in manner (smiley face or not) :eek: Yet it's the other people who you are worried about coming into your estate

Luttrell1975

A V A wrote: »

this thread is going no where , its been open for four years,people are just repeating them selfs.

when the day comes that we have to meat as an estate i will see you there, with plenty others that are not boards.ie, this will not go ahead and i look forward to it

I get the feeling you would like to say people are repeating themselves. That would be you though, and BostonB. Probably not being fair to him as he has raised a different red herring every time. On the other hand the other side of the argument has raised environment, time management, health, public road safety and crime points that have destroyed a whole load of myths.

Let's face it you dont want to admit that you don't want people using the wall for any good use as well as the made up stuff. You don't care about the rest of the people in the community.

Oh, and why would children arrive on a tiny little patch to play football when there are hundreds of better places to play in the area? Examples for BostonB before he asks for proof. Cool mine pitches, with goals, all weather. Huge grassland over at millennium park, Verona pitches. That's not to mention all the bigger greens in estates surrounding Summerfield. Another made up reason to oppose the wall.

Luttrell1975

amdublin wrote: »

AVA I raised a new point which has not been raised before but you are not addressing it and now seem determined to derail the thread, seems to me you are subtly campaigning for it to be closed.
I also find your last post somewhat threatening in manner (smiley face or not) :eek: Yet it's the other people who you are worried about coming into your estate

I also found that smug and threatening. Well done. The ten or fifteen bullies who do the petition will be waiting for us. I am not forgetting how the same bullies pressured my mother and father to sign the petition. Classy.

Diddler1977

A V A wrote: »

this thread is going no where , its been open for four years,people are just repeating them selfs.

when the day comes that we have to meat as an estate i will see you there, with plenty others that are not boards.ie, this will not go ahead and i look forward to it

You can't stop progress!

Diddler1977

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

I also found that smug and threatening. Well done. The ten or fifteen bullies who do the petition will be waiting for us. I am not forgetting how the same bullies pressured my mother and father to sign the petition. Classy.

That is a sad indictment of the people in that estate.

I am sorry that your parents were treated so badly Luttrell.

Some people can be very selfish and never seem to think of anyone but themselves or they never consider the wider community.

Community spirit can be hard to build up when you are dealing with a certain type of people.

I personally lived in an estate in D15 where the topic of closing gates and walkways was discussed. The level of ignorance was quite unbelievable.

Even though it was over 10 years ago, I till remember a few choice quotes from some residents.
Uninformed comment:
"Why do we need paths in the estate anyway, no one needs a path, no one walks out of the estate to get the bus"
(I used the bus to commute to work everyday)

Scaremongering:
"The gates attract trouble, people will be defecating and fornicating at the gates"
(Need I say anything about this one)

Luttrell, I can only imagine what was said to your parents......:(

Diddler1977

The fact is that Summerfield is not a gated community. We are all entitled to walk in this estate.

The wall is a huge inconvenience (literally) to the people who live in the surrounding areas - this is evidenced by the amount of people who climb the wall daily.

I truly believe that the wall will eventually be opened - even if it is only after a dangerous accident occurs as someone jumps the wall and pressure is placed on the council.

Good sense has to prevail. It will be opened for the good of the community.

BostonB

amdublin wrote: »

Are you sure you are not thinking of Heartbreakers rather than The End.

You say not many people walked to it......dude everyone in the surrounding areas of Castleknock, Navan Road walked to it. It closed approx. 94/95 - no Celtic tiger then, people didn't hop into taxis wily nily then. Jeez I remember people from Blanch and Cabra walking to it and home.
When the club closed the amount of people outside walking home was waaaaay more than those outside Light - who now wait for taxis because that's what we do now.....

I would have been there occasionally 90~94 and so its 20 yrs ago. But I don't remember masses of people walking, and I do remember taxi's being used in good numbers. It wasn't the 1950's. If your memory is different fair enough.

BostonB

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

....Oh, and why would children arrive on a tiny little patch to play football when there are hundreds of better places to play in the area? Examples for BostonB before he asks for proof. Cool mine pitches, with goals, all weather. Huge grassland over at millennium park, Verona pitches. That's not to mention all the bigger greens in estates surrounding Summerfield. Another made up reason to oppose the wall.

How would they get there. Its too far for people to walk or cycle, and they can't get through the wall. Apparently there is no other route. Must be desolate empty spaces at the moment. Of course the wall makes them unfit. So they wouldn't be able to play when they got there. lol.

BostonB

Simple fact is the route to get it open is through the residents and/or the council. Thats clear from previous documented experience of openings/closings.

I don't really see how complaining about it, and disparaging the people you need to persuade is a useful endeavour. Indeed disparaging suggestions to help achieve your aim. Not for 4yrs. How could it not repeat itself.

Maybe a new thread could be started but only new information/developments on the campaign can be posted, and nothing that repeats this thread. Just a suggestion. Good luck with it anyway.

Luttrell1975

BostonB wrote: »

How would they get there. Its too far for people to walk or cycle, and they can't get through the wall. Apparently there is no other route. Must be desolate empty spaces at the moment. Of course the wall makes them unfit. So they wouldn't be able to play when they got there. lol.

Have you stopped paying attention now? Through the (w) hole in the wall through which evil pours. That was used as another reason NOT to have an opening, something that would happen I rthe wall was opened.

Your other point, about trying to convince people. Who do you think I am, Neville Chamberlain begging the Germans not to invade Czecheslovakia. This thread has had several of the people who need to be convinced participating, some were reasonable, others have just posted up descriptions of their night terrors. Litter, murder, overflow parking, nightclubbers, football players who are walking up and down outside the wall waiting for an opening so their match can start.