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Summerfield estate to the Blanch centre - why no pedestrian route through the wall??
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I lived in the estate for about 8 years, my mother owns a house there. I'd have no problem with a gap in the wall. The traffic to and from the centre is insane. If you want to walk the long way around you either have to go through the Coolmine Woods (where a few people I know have been mugged and I have been harrassed) or down the main road by Tractamotors where the path is insanely narrow. Neither option is attractive, especially if you have children.
Every able-bodied person hops the wall at some time or another - I've seen a middle-aged married couple do it. I've seen girls in tiny skirts and heels on their way to Heaven do it. There are a good few people walking through the estate anyway. Even a gate for residents would do.0 -
During Centre opening hours or late at night. An alternative in this direction it to go to the next road up, passing the fire station.If you want to walk the long way around you either have to go through the Coolmine Woods (where a few people I know have been mugged and I have been harrassed)
Where is the path that narrow? The Snugborough Road part is very wide as it has ped and bike lanes; Main Street is grand too and, IIRC so is Clonsilla Road.down the main road by Tractamotors where the path is insanely narrow.0 -
During Centre opening hours or late at night. An alternative in this direction it to go to the next road up, passing the fire station.
Where is the path that narrow? The Snugborough Road part is very wide as it has ped and bike lanes; Main Street is grand too and, IIRC so is Clonsilla Road.
People have been mugged after dark. I've got hassled any time of day or night. The path is narrow at the garda station - overhanging bushes, big puddles etc.0 -
I think ive hopped that wall about 50 million times at this stage,
Cant see a reason why they dont just put a gate there. I remember at one stage one of the locals covered the top of the wall with tar and then chased anyone who tried to climb the wall. One day a group of lads came along and bricked his window for all his troubles.
Still, makes sense to limit the traffic, summerfielders wouldnt want "undesirables" in their estate now would they?0 -
During Centre opening hours or late at night. An alternative in this direction it to go to the next road up, passing the fire station.
Where is the path that narrow? The Snugborough Road part is very wide as it has ped and bike lanes; Main Street is grand too and, IIRC so is Clonsilla Road.
The path around the Garden House Chinese is very narrow, I've pushed buggies through there and it's quite dangerous, there's no buffer between you and the traffic and the traffic can be going quite fast. Plus there's a huge dip in the path for pedestrians crossing the road which is also dangerous, a friend of mine lost her footing because of that and stumbled onto the road.0 -
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I think ive hopped that wall about 50 million times at this stage,
Cant see a reason why they dont just put a gate there. I remember at one stage one of the locals covered the top of the wall with tar and then chased anyone who tried to climb the wall. One day a group of lads came along and bricked his window for all his troubles.
Still, makes sense to limit the traffic, summerfielders wouldnt want "undesirables" in their estate now would they?
Naahhh...... on second thoughts forget it, I'm not even going waste my time to even bother posting a reply on this one.0 -
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The siege like mentality of the estates along that road irks me. Hopefully someday a high quality bus service will take advantage of the ongar rad and they'll all be screaming to have the walls breached again!Yeah, that's the excuse given for lack of access to estates from the new Ongar Road.0 -
The siege like mentality of the estates along that road irks me. Hopefully someday a high quality bus service will take advantage of the ongar rad and they'll all be screaming to have the walls breached again!
In the vast majority of estates "along that road", there never was direct pedistrian access in the first place. So the walls will not be breeched again, as they were never breeched originally.
Perhaps, it is a seige like mentality, but I certainly do not condone the measures alledgely taken by a small misguided minority in attempting to stop individuals climbing section of the walls. However you must respect the democratic wishes of the majority and in this case it is the wishes of the majority of the residents in these estates "along that road". Not to have direct pedistrian access on to "that road".
Perhaps, if you lived amongst us you would know the daily reality of living "along that road".0 -
I do live amongst you. There were pedestrian accesses planned for all estates onto the road and some were built and stopped up again. Some were never built due to the mass hysteria of the anticipated roaming hoardes of people rampaging through the place to rape and pillage. Pedestrian access should be promoted to make walking and cycling more attractive than taking the car, which is what most the the residents of these estates are reduced to. I don't believe for one minute that the decisions to stop up the pedestrian walkways were democratic, rather a few busybody types pleaded with their self serving councillors who were only to happy to oblige. Pity FCC can't spend their energy more productively. I don't notice an abnormal number of hoodlums hanging around the entrances at Willow Wood and Allendale, in fact you don't see too many folks walking along the Ongar Distributor at all, unsurprisingly.In the vast majority of estates "along that road", there never was direct pedistrian access in the first place. So the walls will not be breeched again, as they were never breeched originally.
Perhaps, it is a seige like mentality, but I certainly do not condone the measures alledgely taken by a small misguided minority in attempting to stop individuals climbing section of the walls. However you must respect the democratic wishes of the majority and in this case it is the wishes of the majority of the residents in these estates "along that road". Not to have direct pedistrian access on to "that road".
Perhaps, if you lived amongst us you would know the daily reality of living "along that road".
Edit: The road has been planned since the 80's, long before any of the current residents of the newer estates moved in. I dn't think anyone can complain abiut a road that was available to see in numerous development plans. Caveat Emptor and all that.0 -
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Wow, wouldn't have imagined this would get to 3 pages!
I guess I can accept the 'residents only' thing. It'd also be annoying to have people from Heaven etc. causing trouble at 3am on a Friday night in the estate.
It's just that, as someone who rents and doesn't drive, it's something that appears to be tailored to the standard lazy Irish person who drives everywhere and discriminates against the people who don't. There isn't a whole lot of room for extra parking in Summerfield anyway, all these houses with 3 cars mean that people driving through the estate have to snake through all the residents' own parked cars.
Meh, I guess I'll just have to keep washing my shoes.0 -
murphaph, it is a pity that you use a throw away remark about rape, as that is exactly what happened near my own home three years ago. The individuals involved jumped the wall on to the Ongar Road to make their escape.
Thankfully they were arrested and found gulity in court.I don't believe for one minute that the decisions to stop up the pedestrian walkways were democratic, rather a few busybody types pleaded with their self serving councillors who were only to happy to oblige.
I must correct you in you on this. If residents in a particular area wish Fingal CC to extinguish a right of way, or establish one for that matter. Fingal CC insist that the residents must hold a plebiscite (referendum, vote) within their area to get this matter amended in their local area plan.
I know this as I am one of those busybody types you refer too. Because our Estate held one to prevent two pedistrian entrances on to the Ongar road. Which incidently were not shown on any Fingal plans for the Estate before we purchased our home and which the planner's tried to parachute in after the estate was completed. This vote must show a significant majority in favour or against, normally 85% or over before Fingal CC will act upon it.
I am sorry that you see our councillors as self serving as I have yet to find this in any of the councillors I have have dealt with over the years.
As a matter of fact I would ask you to state here on this forum as to who these self serving councillor's are. So we are aware of this in 18 months time when they are seeking re-election so we can confront them with this.0 -
An absolutely ridiculous statement. "Rape and pillage" is a centuries old phrase-not a throwaway remark about rape sir! Don't try to hyperinflate my comments to whip up hysteria. It may work in Limelawn et. al but not here.murphaph, it is a pity that you use a throw away remark about rape, as that is exactly what happened near my own home three years ago. The individuals involved jumped the wall on to the Ongar Road to make their escape.
Anyway. You claim the assailants vaulted the wall onto the Ongar Road to make their escape. In which case it would appear the wall did not prevent the attack in the first place and in fact may have prevented anyone witnessing the attack from making chase!
I disagree that this is in any way democratic. Define "particular area" for a start. Rights of way existed across fields long before your housing estates were built. People living in D15 before your estates were built used to walk across them to reach Clonsilla. Were these people consulted or asked to vote in your highly localised plebiscite? Nope. A handful of people in a new estate built atop an old right of way used predominantly by residents of older estates voting to stop up that right of way is non-democratic in my view.I must correct you in you on this. If residents in a particular area wish Fingal CC to extinguish a right of way, or establish one for that matter. Fingal CC insist that the residents must hold a plebiscite (referendum, vote) within their area to get this matter amended in their local area plan.
I know this as I am one of those busybody types you refer too. Because our Estate held one to prevent two pedistrian entrances on to the Ongar road. Which incidently were not shown on any Fingal plans for the Estate before we purchased our home and which the planner's tried to parachute in after the estate was completed. This vote must show a significant majority in favour or against, normally 85% or over before Fingal CC will act upon it.
I'll give you my experiences with them shall I. I have written (pen and ink as well as email) to all D15 area councillors repeatedly on the issue of the appaling road signage (the Ongar Road has the worst signage I have ever seen erected on a new scheme) in the area. Only one ever wrote back and he's since been elected to Dail Eireann. They wouldn't bother taking up my issue as it would not serve them well at election time. They take up populist issues, regardless of their benefit to society as a whole. I bet those councillors who supported your closures didn't march across to Willow Wood etc. to knock on their doors to inform them they'd make sure they couldn't use rights of way previously used by them. Any councillor (or TD, Mr. Lenihan) who can't be @rsed to reply to letters from a constituent is a disgrace and shouldn't pretend to be in public office.I am sorry that you see our councillors as self serving as I have yet to find this in any of the councillors I have have dealt with over the years.
As a matter of fact I would ask you to state here on this forum as to who these self serving councillor's are. So we are aware of this in 18 months time when they are seeking re-election so we can confront them with this.
Look Tom. You have your walls nice and high around you snd you yourslef state that they failed to prevent a rape taking place but I must ask, why did you move to that estate if you believe you need to live with walls around you to be happy here? Would you install security gates on the estate if you could?
I absolutely guarantee that the same individuals involved in stopping up the accesses to the Ongar Road will be back in less than 10 years begging to reopen them to boost their property prices. Can anyone guess what might force such a sea change?!0 -
murphaph, to remind you it was you who introduced the hyperinflation and hysteria into this thread with your throw away rape and pillage comment.
Secondly, my our particular estate's discussions with Fingal were long concluded before the Lime Lawn Estate was even started. Also if you do not believe me in how the process works confirm it with Fingal CC.
Thirdly, my name is Pat Dunne and not "Tom".
Fourthly, I agree the provision for directional road signs along with the total lack of Bus Shelters from the Ongar round west of Clonsilla to Littlepace is not short of a disgrace. Along with the complete lack of supporting bus services to the various train stations. I would also be happy to work along side you in starting a campaign for the introduction of these and other much needed facilities in the area.
Interesting you name only Minister Lenihan of whom I am certainly no supporter. Ironic to think that he still go the largest vote of all our TD's in the constituency last May.
With regard to the Metro, if you study the proposed route that is proposing to take through Dublin 15. It is going through the least populated areas in the whole of Dublin 15 and will not be servicing Mulhuddart, Tyrellstown, Castlecurragh etc Which will further isolate these areas from quailty public transport making them solely reliant on Buses and other methods of private transport.
The Metro will however service Fingal CC Offices, The B'town Cte, the National Aquatic Cte, the Abbotstown Sports Campus and the Industrial Estsates North of Corduff. If you notice the common theme about all of these destinations they are all either large Public Service employers or large Commercial entities. The Metro will not greatly assist the already hard pressed commuter's of D15 in any real way. As it will not be going to where demand is greatest in D15. That of linking the various urban areas together and taking away the ove relience on cars to commute short distances.0 -
You clearly didn't understand my reference. There is an element of hysteria in the new estates about the potential for the undesirables from myself and zaph's side of the Berlin wall coming over there and wrecking the place! If there wasn't, there'd be no walls at all.murphaph, to remind you it was you who introduced the hyperinflation and hysteria into this thread with your throw away rape and pillage comment.
I just used Limelawn as an example. I said Limelawn et al (and others).Secondly, my our particular estate's discussions with Fingal were long concluded before the Lime Lawn Estate was even started. Also if you do not believe me in how the process works confirm it with Fingal CC.
Apologies Pat.Thirdly, my name is Pat Dunne and not "Tom".
To be honest I can't get too angry with FCC/BAC when it comes to bus shelters. Why provide them or the services when the residents have effectively turned their backs on the road by barricading themselves into their estates? The situation wrt feeder buses to the stations is fairly well known-until the Interconnector is built there won't be the capacity in the rail system to take bus loads more people on the trains. I'm sure train users will back me up that they are at crush loads already. Long term FCC plan to use Porterstown Interchange as the point where most buses run to/from in D15 but not until the onward capacity is built into the rail system.Fourthly, I agree the provision for directional road signs along with the total lack of Bus Shelters from the Ongar round west of Clonsilla to Littlepace is not short of a disgrace. Along with the complete lack of supporting bus services to the various train stations. I would also be happy to work along side you in starting a campaign for the introduction of these and other much needed facilities in the area.
See above though. If residents are determined to hem themselves in with walls that prevent pedestrian movement through and between them then that's the nail in the coffin for public transport I'm afraid. You can't have succesful public transport if you make it difficult to access. People look down on the bus as a poor man's way and the Luas (it's not a real metro of course) through Blanchardstown could help. You highlight that it avoids certain residential areas but it passes through or past many others. D15 is comprised of a lot of low rise sprawl that cannot all be served with a single line. I will be petitioning for the Millenium Park stop to be moved north however, away from the likes of Limelawn wh have made their choice wrt. public transport as far as I'm concerned. It should be located at the main entrance to Millenium Park, along Blanchardstown Road South, opposite Mountview Road. This would allow the residents of Fortlawn/Mountview/Hartstown to walk along Mountview Road to the stop. These residents who have not opted for the Berlin Wall approach to community relations should be rewarded. A metro stop near Limelawn/Sorrel etc. is a waste as the wall prevents the residents from accessing the stop in the first place.With regard to the Metro, if you study the proposed route that is proposing to take through Dublin 15. It is going through the least populated areas in the whole of Dublin 15 and will not be servicing Mulhuddart, Tyrellstown, Castlecurragh etc Which will further isolate these areas from quailty public transport making them solely reliant on Buses and other methods of private transport.
Pat-I have no sympathy for anyone in your estates who complains about poor public transport having sealed yourselves in and left yourselves unable to access the Ongar road bus lanes. If and when new services (due shortly) take advantage of the Ongar Road your estates will not be able to access them as the walls you all requested are in the way. Fingal CC have either built or are rapidly upgrading all the distributor roads to include bus lanes on both sides throughout, a la QBC (Blanch Road North&South/Snugborough Road&extension/Ongar Road) so when the buses eventually provide a good service from the large residential areas south of the N3 to the large commercial and industrial centres north of the N3 I'm sure there'll be the same people out comlaining that they can't access the services. You can't have it both ways. The sad thing is that not only are you barricading yourselves in, you are preventing people from walking routes to Clonsilla they have taken for decades. The new estates have a lot to answer for when it comes to the disincentivisation of public transport in Dublin 15.The Metro will however service Fingal CC Offices, The B'town Cte, the National Aquatic Cte, the Abbotstown Sports Campus and the Industrial Estsates North of Corduff. If you notice the common theme about all of these destinations they are all either large Public Service employers or large Commercial entities. The Metro will not greatly assist the already hard pressed commuter's of D15 in any real way. As it will not be going to where demand is greatest in D15. That of linking the various urban areas together and taking away the ove relience on cars to commute short distances.0 -
It's over 5 years since I lived in the summerfield estate.
Back then a guy called to the door with a petition to increase the wall height.
As far as I remember he was living close to the wall and didn't want guys climbing over the wall.
Most of the estates over that side of blanch are fairly respectable so the amount of anti-social behaviour wouldn't be huge but I did get the rear three quarter panel of my car kicked in one night by someone passing thru.
It's proximity to the nightclub would mean that I'd think twice before opening up a right of way on to the snugborough road.
Close down the nightclub and most of the nocturnal nastiness would disappear from Blanch; I suffer from the nightclub and I'm a fair distance away from it.0 -
I live in summerfield and I jump that wall 3/4 times a day going to work/shop/home/gym. I still dont want a ped access thru it though, I know for a fact you would have a million empty cans, and empty glass bottles of vodka dropped just inside the estate from people getting the last of their "pre-drinks" into them out of the veiw of the bouncers from Heaven, add to that a ten time multiple of the number of people that already trek through the estate to the centre and a similar multiple of underage drinkers who would use the green near the wall as a drinking area due to its easy escape if the gards arrived.
Absolutely not, Ill gladly get my shoes dirty.0 -
I know I would probably park there and walk to the centre during busy times, as would lots of other people, just look at the situation down by Coolmine Swimming Pool where they've had to put double yellow lines everywhere to stop people doing it. Around Christmas it can take 30mins to 1hr to get out of the centre.0
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Going by the state of the wall at the top of Summer Field Ave on the right, it looks like one of the locals took matters into their own hands and decided to put a hole in the wall... only problem was it was the wall of his neighbors house and not the one to the shopping center... did anyone see it? it looks very unsafe...0
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Lol yeah.
Apparently was hit by a drunk driver. It's being stabilised now by some good aul 2 x 4's.0 -
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Even though I've been hopping the wall for years now, I think it'd be silly to make a gateway. As many people have said before, there'd be more people walking through the estate which I'm sure the residents wouldn't be happy about and Heaven punters would probably make a mess. I know I really don't like it when drunkards are screaming and singing at the top of their voices at 3am down my road.0
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Even though I've been hopping the wall for years now, I think it'd be silly to make a gateway. As many people have said before, there'd be more people walking through the estate which I'm sure the residents wouldn't be happy about and Heaven punters would probably make a mess. I know I really don't like it when drunkards are screaming and singing at the top of their voices at 3am down my road.
I was delighted to find this thread (special tanks to Zaph). The point completely lost from this discussion is that the traditional access routes west of the village of Blanchardstown had houses plonked on top of them, but the need for areas to connect to one another should outweigh the paranoid few using a few isolated incidents that were not prevented by walls anyway from dominating the debate and consigning people into needless car journeys and makinf the concept of public transport impossible.0 -
When every skanger is removed from the steets your position will be supportable, until then it is not.
Fingal Co. Co. will absolutely not install gated passageways. There are a handful of them in the D15 area and they will not allow any more be created.0 -
When every skanger is removed from the steets your position will be supportable, until then it is not.
Fingal Co. Co. will absolutely not install gated passageways. There are a handful of them in the D15 area and they will not allow any more be created.
More of the same:rolleyes:. A few isolated incidents and you want to build castles?0 -
I'm sorry but you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. The amount of anti-social behaviour in D15 is unreal and Summerfield and Springlawn don't suffer from it much because they have the walls in place. My estate is a distance removed from these, is wide open with no walls and people are being near driven out of their properties due to anti-social behaviour. I've been in discussion with the Council about taking steps to address the problem and I'm making slow progress.
I've attended meetings between the Gardai, Council and the local communities with regard to the anti-social behaviour that is at epedemic levels in most of the estates closer to the shopping centre.
I saw your other post in the D15 sub forum and you just appear to be put out because you had to walk further to get to the Blanch Centre.
The fact that you suggested that gated passageways be put in place shows how little you know about what is and isn't possible in D15.
And I've got a list as long as my arm of incidents of anti-social behaviour which are filed away in an online folder.
The greens in Summerfield are a public resource. In my time there the local kids played safely on the green spaces. The green areas were used because they weren't covered in rubbish, used condoms, hyperdermic syringes, methadone bottles and burnt out mopeds.0 -
I'm sorry but you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. The amount of anti-social behaviour in D15 is unreal and Summerfield and Springlawn don't suffer from it much because they have the walls in place. My estate is a distance removed from these, is wide open with no walls and people are being near driven out of their properties due to anti-social behaviour. I've been in discussion with the Council about taking steps to address the problem and I'm making slow progress.
I've attended meetings between the Gardai, Council and the local communities with regard to the anti-social behaviour that is at epedemic levels in most of the estates closer to the shopping centre.
I saw your other post in the D15 sub forum and you just appear to be put out because you had to walk further to get to the Blanch Centre.
The fact that you suggested that gated passageways be put in place shows how little you know about what is and isn't possible in D15.
And I've got a list as long as my arm of incidents of anti-social behaviour which are filed away in an online folder.
The greens in Summerfield are a public resource. In my time there the local kids played safely on the green spaces. The green areas were used because they weren't covered in rubbish, used condoms, hyperdermic syringes, methadone bottles and burnt out mopeds.
Its the dozens of kids walking to school that hop the way AND all the others that are in mummies 4wd cars going the long way around.0 -
Gonna have to disagree with you strongly there santry goonshow.
Ill lived and grew up in the ****hole as you call it of Oakview in Hartstown during the bad 'ole days and there used to be loads of laneways to other roads,gateway entrances to Statoil Garage and the Park and also loads of trouble around these with gangs hanging around, harassing people. The residents who lived beside these entrances were constantly having damaged caused to property and cans, needles throw into garden,etc..
Now fast forward, all these laneways, gated entrances have been closed off and the cul-de-sacs are now much quieter, safer places.
Having everything all open plan, wide open spaces, entrances everywhere might work in fantasy land but it doesn't in Dublin 15.0 -
Gonna have to disagree with you strongly there santry goonshow.
Having everything all open plan, wide open spaces, entrances everywhere might work in fantasy land but it doesn't in Dublin 15.
Thats a shame because the mythology about Blanch being crime-ridden shouldn't be what decides these things. The lockable timed gates are the compromsie unless you just love being inside a car and want all your kids as fat as fools. Thats why I wont be moving there any time soon.0 -
santry_goonshow wrote: »OK then you raise some interesting things but if you want to discuss things on msg board better get down off your high horse, esp accusing others of not knowing what they are talking abt. Just because you live in an area doesn't give you an absolute veto over other ppl's ideas and perceptions. You don't know a thing about me, u are the one who sounds clueless atm. The point is not me being inconvenienced, I'm only one person. Its the dozens of kids walking to school that hop the way AND all the others that are in mummies 4wd cars going the long way around.
Your attitude to the issue is similar to others on the thread and there isn't much new in it. Crime is generally exaggerated in peoples minds in new growing communities where people don't know each other [view of Robert Putnam author of Bowling Alone]. Blanchardstown is like that although Springlawn is a bit older the walls were up when it was still relatively new. Most of the trouble in Blanchardstown lies a good bit to the west and north of where you are and in County Council housing estates like Fortlawn and Hartstown and its nowhere as bad as any of your adjectives like "epidemic" or "unreal". There are problems from time to time but in general its sporadic. That's just all a big old excuse not to change the place. Lets face facts:
- walls do nothing, skangers hop over them and if the cops are chasing them they help the escape
- crime is lower in areas of high pedestrian footfall, open an area up and it is safer
- Councils would prefer to have more open walkways, they try to keep them open unless theres political manipulation going on. How the hell are time lock gates not possible? They are the future and are used in other modern cities.
- The greens are a public resource, not just ones for the people immediately beside them. Its up to local communties to work with the council guys to keep them clean.
Once again you show you haven't got a clue.
I've had to come to the rescue of neighbours who were surrounded by youths looking to do them harm. Every car in the place has been interferred with in one way or another. Vandalism, grafitti and littering are at the lower end of the scale of what is going on in soem of these estates.
I'm responding to this thread because your views are uninformed. I wouldn't respond otherwise. To actually effect change with regard to anti-social behaviour I act in the real world and the progress is slow, not thrash it out on a forum.0 -
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SantryGOON wrote:Thats a shame because the mythology about Blanch being crime-ridden shouldn't be what decides these things. The lockable timed gates are the compromsie unless you just love being inside a car and want all your kids as fat as fools. Thats why I wont be moving there any time soon.^good, we dont want you here anyway.
I live in Summerfield and have seen people walking home from Heaven WITH the wall there running over cars parked in the estate, yes, up the bonnet and down the back window. Thats with the wall there, knock down the wall and that will become a bottleneck for anti-social behaviour.
Scumbags already use Millenium Park as a walkway from Hartstown to Blanch village, and the opposite ways, at night for drinking and causing trouble on, and thats not near residential dwellings... opening the wall would make that journey half the length and they'd walk striaght through into Roselawn. Also, during busy shopping period people would park in Summerfield and strol through to Next and the main shops to avoid waiting for a parking spot, I've seen it done over christmas with the wall there.
The area of Summerfield and Springlawn was never a traditional route for Blanch residents, they were fields and farms, so that point is idiotic.
Its bad enough people climbing the wall to get home from Heaven to Roselawn, it'd be twice as bad if anyone could climb/open a gate and walk down to 24hour tesco and back even if they wernt residents on that side of the wall. Remember there'll be another nightclub on the opposite side of the centre soon aswell.
Come back to me when you move in from Santry.0
This discussion has been closed.
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