Summerfield estate to the Blanch centre - why no pedestrian route through the wall??

santry_goonshow

Pen1987 wrote: »

I live in Summerfield and have seen people walking home from Heaven WITH the wall there running over cars parked in the estate, yes, up the bonnet and down the back window. Thats with the wall there, knock down the wall and that will become a bottleneck for anti-social behaviour.

Scumbags already use Millenium Park as a walkway from Hartstown to Blanch village, and the opposite ways, at night for drinking and causing trouble on, and thats not near residential dwellings... opening the wall would make that journey half the length and they'd walk striaght through into Roselawn. Also, during busy shopping period people would park in Summerfield and strol through to Next and the main shops to avoid waiting for a parking spot, I've seen it done over christmas with the wall there.

The area of Summerfield and Springlawn was never a traditional route for Blanch residents, they were fields and farms, so that point is idiotic.

Its bad enough people climbing the wall to get home from Heaven to Roselawn, it'd be twice as bad if anyone could climb/open a gate and walk down to 24hour tesco and back even if they wernt residents on that side of the wall. Remember there'll be another nightclub on the opposite side of the centre soon aswell.

Come back to me when you move in from Santry.

Great. So it boils down to:
- you don't care that walls don't actually prevent anti-socials, so long as they are fit ones who can scale walls and escape over them with impunity because gardai cannot chase
- you don't care that the area is a private transp trap, no public transp options. Further you don't care that kids in this estate are travelling to school by car.
- you don't care that what you are doing doesn't help Blanchardstown just stigmatises it further as a nest of crime when its not quite as bad as all that

You have no ability to listen and u sound waaayyy to cynical. Try, just try to answr the relevant questions. How would a time controlled gate allow more mayhem to occur?

Why don't u ask for cctv cameras for your area if one nightclub is so detrimental?

You and that other lad sound a bit like the folks in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmF_yXQkVh0

Zaph

santry_goonshow wrote: »

You and that other lad sound a bit like the folks in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmF_yXQkVh0

Ok lads, let's not start to make this personal, OK?

Mailman

santry_goonshow wrote: »

Why don't u ask for cctv cameras for your area if one nightclub is so detrimental?

I already enquired about CCTV and there are too many hoops to jump through before an area even gets considered for the community CCTV scheme.

santry_goonshow

Mailman wrote: »

I already enquired about CCTV and there are too many hoops to jump through before an area even gets considered for the community CCTV scheme.

Maybe u should keep after it (cctv), or ask your residents association to because I understand there are grants given for these.
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/CCTVStage1ApplicationForm2006.pdf/Files/CCTVStage1ApplicationForm2006.pdf
Anyways I am still at a loss (without any explanation) of why a lockable gate would make the sky fall in?

Zaph

Mailman wrote: »

I already enquired about CCTV and there are too many hoops to jump through before an area even gets considered for the community CCTV scheme.

OK, putting aside the CCTV for a minute, assuming that Fingal CC actually took the initiative and stumped up the readies to install one of these timelock gates, and it locked shut between say 10pm and 7am, would you have any objection to having one giving access to Summerfield and Springlawn? It would make access easier for the residents and pedestrians in general, and if "scumbags" jump over the wall late at night, a locked gate isn't going to stop them. And if you would object, on what grounds would that be?

I have an interest in this myself from a slightly different angle. I've posted here before about not having pedestrian access to Clonsilla station from Hartstown, which means that it's quicker for me to drive to Coolmine than walk to Clonsilla. The lack of access is down to residents of Mount Symon and Portersgate not wanting "scumbags" from Hartstown walking through their estates. A timelocked gate might be a solution there too.

Mailman

Zaph wrote: »

would you have any objection to having one giving access to Summerfield and Springlawn?

I don't live in either of these two estates so not too worried either way.
Springlawn and Summerfield are not blocked off from essential facilities. The routes to Roselawn Shopping Centre and Blanchardstown(Village) Shopping Centre are not obstructed. Schools, Churches, medical centres, restaurants, banks, bus routes are(were) freely accessible without having to jump over a wall.
Blanchardstown Town Centre should never have been built outside the M50 in the first place and there have been suggestions that planning permission was finessed with the help of local politicians.

Issue with wall might resolve itself if the Metro gets built and then there will be something on the far side of the wall worth visiting other than a cathedral to modern consumerism.

Zaph

Mailman wrote: »

Issue with wall might resolve itself if the Metro gets built and then there will be something on the far side of the wall worth visiting other than a cathedral to modern consumerism.

Fair enough, but assuming that people want to visit said cathedral, or all points beyond it, should there be a gate in the wall to facilitate this? Or should the wall be left as it is for fear of marauding hordes from the badlands? That seems to be the attitude that stops me walking to Clonsilla station, I'm just wondering if it's a valid argument if the access can be controlled by having a timelocked gate?

santry_goonshow

Mailman wrote: »

I don't live in either of these two estates so not too worried either way.
Springlawn and Summerfield are not blocked off from essential facilities. The routes to Roselawn Shopping Centre and Blanchardstown(Village) Shopping Centre are not obstructed. Schools, Churches, medical centres, restaurants, banks, bus routes are(were) freely accessible without having to jump over a wall.
Blanchardstown Town Centre should never have been built outside the M50 in the first place and there have been suggestions that planning permission was finessed with the help of local politicians.

Issue with wall might resolve itself if the Metro gets built and then there will be something on the far side of the wall worth visiting other than a cathedral to modern consumerism.

Amidst all the off-topicry (where it is comfortable to be re-assured that its the politicians fault, Blanchardstown west of some magical wall should be bulldozed or nuked, and the demon that is consumerism needs to be slayed) there is an answer finally.

However, its completely from the point of view of the ppl in the houses there and not in terms of the greater public good of being able to walk all around that town without recourse to the motorcar. We see the grudging admission that maybe there is something outside the wall, well there is. The day I was there I saw restaurents, a cinema, an excellent public library, a civic building, a theatre and a school as well as Verona(?) gym. But hey, never mind that who would want to use those free services?

Mailman

Because I'm not from the estate I'm not going to comment on whether there should be a gate there other than I know the officials in Fingal Co. Co. will be as unhelpful as possible if anybody sought open up a gateway and it would take three or four years before the officials would bring it before the Councillors.
I'm not Santry guy and I know that many of the residents of the estates feel strongly about it so I'll keep my opinion to myself.
My reply got interupted as there were a large bunch of skangers scrapping outside and I had to call the Gardai.

santry_goonshow

Mailman wrote: »

My reply got interupted as there were a large bunch of skangers scrapping outside and I had to call the Gardai.

I'm sure there are strong feelings, but how do u know what those are and how do u know what the Fingal Council people want?

Better watch those skangers, they were probably fighting over which part of the "town that should never have been built" ought to get bulldozed first. Or maybe one of them accused the other of not having a clue about Blanchardstown, but ironically couldn't think of the location of his own local library, sports facilities, theatre, restaurents and theatre were.:p

Mailman

You're an awful eejit!

santry_goonshow

Mailman wrote: »

You're an awful eejit!

But you've gotta love me. I didn't know Blanchardstown that well and I caught up quickly.

Would love to hear from a few Summerfielders about this issue though. Are they a besieged community?

Mailman

The library was in the village and I was in the new one yesterday, the restaurants are in the village, sports facilities are at the end of clonsilla road which is easily accessible without climbing over a wall.
You think the theatre is so good you name it twice but there has been feck all in the theatre worth visiting for quite a while and a theatre is only as good as it's program; I receive the timetable for Draiocht by post. The only living theatre in Blanch is in the Coolmine drama circle and they operate out of Verona FC which is accessible without climbing a wall( up to the end of clonsilla road and down grove road which is how people got to it before Snugborough road extension was built)

santry_goonshow

You are shifting position a little bit now, but hell yeah lets go for it.

What you say about the theatre is a matter of taste, or is it that you and the summerfielders have precisely the same tastes? Anyway I was there a few years back for a show, very nice night and worth the entry fee. I checked your little route to Verona and that is the long way around. The whole point of the discussion, even since the OP was that that the wall makes things less direct than they should be and that seems to be 200m more than necessary to the Verona club area.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blanchardstown&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.682067,81.914062&ie=UTF8&ll=53.387961,-6.383529&spn=0.011262,0.039997&z=15

I havent seen the restaurants in main street but at a guess I'd say there's more choice up at the shopping centre.

Anyways I was only indulging you here. The point is also including those that wish to pass through the wall, coming from further afield maybe doing business in the centre and then going to main street. That walk is a pain in the hole on the same map there.

Thanks for the roadnames, I googled them and found that there is a CIC, a FAS office and a Social Welfare Office literally facing the beautiful wall. So its always good to put great big obstacles in the way of public services like them. PPL coming from the east also have to go Wanderly Wagonning to use these.

The more I learn the worse the wall looks. LOL

Mailman

santry_goonshow wrote: »

That walk is a pain in the hole

That's the sum total of your argument. You want a short walk to the shopping centre and bugger the people who actually have to live in the place and put up day-in day-out with the anti-social behaviour that gets generated as a result.

santry_goonshow

Mailman wrote: »

That's the sum total of your argument. You want a short walk to the shopping centre and bugger the people who actually have to live in the place and put up day-in day-out with the anti-social behaviour that gets generated as a result.

Nope, thats u selectectively isolating 8 words from my argument and turning it to your own ends to dismiss everything because of a makey uppy percieved risk of crime

Pen1987

Where does most petty crime occur around the area? Where do most underage drinkers drink in the area?... Coolmine woods, Millenium Park and Verona. What are all these areas? The access routes from Blanch centre into Roselawn. What would Summerfield/Springlawn be if they knocked down part of the wall? an access route. Who else would use the route? EVERYBODY going to Heaven from Roselawn at night. What would that no doubt cause? More crime. Where would assauts no doubt occur after Heaven closes? Behind the wall out of view of the bouncers and/or Gardai. Where would people park when the centre is busy? In the estate outside peoples homes? Who doesnt want people committing crime, hanging around, or parking outside their driveway? The residents. Who is perfectly happy to walk or drive to the centre using the routes provided in exchange for lower crime rates and less people hanging around on Broadway, Summerfield, Springlawn and Roselawn green areas, the residents of Roselawn. Why has there not been a hole knocked in the wall already? because more people are happy to use the routes provided than risk the possible fall-out from a gate.

Luttrell1975

Zaph wrote: »

Fair enough, but assuming that people want to visit said cathedral, or all points beyond it, should there be a gate in the wall to facilitate this? Or should the wall be left as it is for fear of marauding hordes from the badlands? That seems to be the attitude that stops me walking to Clonsilla station, I'm just wondering if it's a valid argument if the access can be controlled by having a timelocked gate?

I know that bloody wall because I used to jump it and I'm more for the gate. It wouldn't automatically make the area unsafe in any way, after all everyone walks on the village main street and I almost never see or hear of crime on it. Maybe the Cop Shop helps

Problem is if ANYONE in the estate has a strop about it or don't even like the colour the Council propose to paint it the County Councillors will buckle and cancel the repairs necessary. It has happened before.

Luttrell1975

And there was a bald headed lunatic in there somewhere who often threatened people if he caught us crossing the wall. He soon got tired of it because everyone I know just went for it rather than go around and be 20 minutes late. :pac:

Michellenman

I live in Summerfield also, it's to stop people coming through on their way back from heaven and what used to be the Buddah bar. I've lived here 12 years and I can honestly say I prefer it without the gap.

the dee

Maybe more than one access point along the wall would be a better idea, just so everyone doesn't have to use the same gate and street to get to the centre. I think having a 6 foot high wall all along that road was a stupid idea. Maybe every estate should have it's own gate? That would spread out the traffic a bit.

I don't think crime would increase in the estates as criminals are always going to prefer the isolation of the woods or millenium park to conduct their dealings. Why would they move into the centre of a middle class residential area in full view of everyone?

Enii

Naos wrote: »

The reason there is no entrance in the wall is to stop traffic coming through the estate.

People who couldn't get parking in the centre would park their cars in the estate.

I doubt this. People want to get as close to the centre as possible. I often times park in Coolmine Sports Complex and walk in to the centre.........I am one of a few who does this - even at busy times like Christmas.

Enii

Michellenman wrote: »

I've lived here 12 years and I can honestly say I prefer it without the gap.

What are you comparing it to? Was there ever a gap?

Michellenman

At the start when we first moved in the centre wasn't there so there wasn't a problem. When the shopping centre was built the increase in traffic (people taking short cuts by jumping over the wall) was crazy. It was horrible and the green area that people were landing on was ruined.

At night time there are people coming over the wall who are leaving heaven/light and the noise they make (singing and chanting) and the rubbish they leave (empty/smashed bottles and McDonalds trash now it's open til 3am) is nasty. It's making the place look like a tip and putting a walk way through will only make it easier for people to do it, and so more people will do it.

It may seems like a good idea cause it'll be a short home for you but you don't have to live with the consequences outside your front door.

Luttrell1975

Michellenman wrote: »

At the start when we first moved in the centre wasn't there so there wasn't a problem. When the shopping centre was built the increase in traffic (people taking short cuts by jumping over the wall) was crazy. It was horrible and the green area that people were landing on was ruined.

At night time there are people coming over the wall who are leaving heaven/light and the noise they make (singing and chanting) and the rubbish they leave (empty/smashed bottles and McDonalds trash now it's open til 3am) is nasty. It's making the place look like a tip and putting a walk way through will only make it easier for people to do it, and so more people will do it.

It may seems like a good idea cause it'll be a short home for you but you don't have to live with the consequences outside your front door.

Wait there a min.

Do you hear what you are saying? So many people hopping the wall. So like the wall isnt there or has no effect? So why have it?

And you are complaining of the green being ruined by people landing? What were they falling off? THE WALL right?

I am a bitter person because I had to cross that <snip> wall to get to school. I ruined shoes and trousers on that wall.

Its completely wrong that a small bunch of 40 refuseniks will get there way again. And Leo Varadkar {who is from a nice family} but forgot that hes supposed to be a TD not a Fingal Councillor will pull all these stunts and support the wall status quo. http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?p=725 Mickey mouse planning if you ask me.

Michellenman

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Wait there a min.

Do you hear what you are saying? So many people hopping the wall. So like the wall isnt there or has no effect? So why have it?

And you are complaining of the green being ruined by people landing? What were they falling off? THE WALL right?

I am a bitter person because I had to cross that <snip> wall to get to school. I ruined shoes and trousers on that wall.

Its completely wrong that a small bunch of 40 refuseniks will get there way again. And Leo Varadkar {who is from a nice family} but forgot that hes supposed to be a TD not a Fingal Councillor will pull all these stunts and support the wall status quo. http://www.leovaradkar.ie/?p=725 Mickey mouse planning if you ask me.

Then don't <SNIP> hop the wall?! Walk around the proper way. No one forced you to jump the wall (in fact they actively discourage it!) and ruin your trousers. You've no one to blame but yourself for that.

If it was an open public area I'd agree that 40 people stopping something happening would be ridiculous but it's not. It's a residential estate where it's the people living there have to deal with the repercussions.

Having the wall means that some people hop the wall, it's 6/7 ft high that you need something to stand on beforehand, it's not like just anyone can do it. Having a walk way encourages more traffic that frankly we can do without. They people who do it at the moment show no respect for the people who live here, they litter and make so much noise. I live near the entrance to the estate and they people who come through after a night out get no quieter as they walk through the estate.

Gaspode

OK folks, calm it down or this thread will be locked, and bans handed out.
Please have a look at todays update to the charter.

Enii

Gaspode wrote: »

OK folks, calm it down or this thread will be locked, and bans handed out.
Please have a look at todays update to the charter.

Gaspode, have looked at the update. Very impressive! Must have taken a bit of working on. Thanks!

Luttrell1975

Michellenman wrote: »

Then don't <SNIP> hop the wall?! Walk around the proper way. No one forced you to jump the wall (in fact they actively discourage it!) and ruin your trousers. You've no one to blame but yourself for that.

If it was an open public area I'd agree that 40 people stopping something happening would be ridiculous but it's not. It's a residential estate where it's the people living there have to deal with the repercussions.

Having the wall means that some people hop the wall, it's 6/7 ft high that you need something to stand on beforehand, it's not like just anyone can do it. Having a walk way encourages more traffic that frankly we can do without. They people who do it at the moment show no respect for the people who live here, they litter and make so much noise. I live near the entrance to the estate and they people who come through after a night out get no quieter as they walk through the estate.

Excuse me. My parents live there and I lived there and most of the kids I grew up with there climbed it so get your facts straight. I had to go that way to school and there was no way I was walking three times the distance or i couldnt go home for lunch. What were we meant to do all get driving licences at 13 or be late for school?

Anyway what your saying is there is a lot of litter well how is that wall helping you? And the only traffic you are talking about is walking public. All you need is a litter bin and a streetsweeper.

Michellenman

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Excuse me. My parents live there and I lived there and most of the kids I grew up with there climbed it so get your facts straight. I had to go that way to school and there was no way I was walking three times the distance or i couldnt go home for lunch. What were we meant to do all get driving licences at 13 or be late for school?

What do you mean get my facts straight? You didn't give me any facts to get straight. What was I supposed to do, ask you for your life story before responding? Hardly.

Anyway what your saying is there is a lot of litter well how is that wall helping you? And the only traffic you are talking about is walking public. All you need is a litter bin and a streetsweeper.

The wall is preventing MORE traffic coming through. And thus lessen the litter problem.

Putting bins and a streetsweeper in isn't going to stop any drunken louts from coming through and making commotion at three in the morning. A walkway will just encourage people to come through Summerfield as a shortcut. No thanks.