Summerfield estate to the Blanch centre - why no pedestrian route through the wall??

Zaph

SpatialPlanner, I've removed that link as there's already a re-direct in the forum main page.

Diddler1977

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Its still standing, just about. Dirty ugly relic of fear and suspicion. A shocking scar of bad planning system.

When they were trying to remove a walk through gate in my area there was talk of "defecation & fornication" occurring at the gate!!!!!

I really hate these blocked up estates that stop people walking and cycling through. We are forced in to our cars - no quality of life comes of this. Would be way better for families if they could walk through short cuts to the Blanch centre, etc.

BostonB

Its about a 10 minute or less to cycle around. Not that thats really the issue. I suspect you need the Irish Rangers to keep a bike safe at the SC.

The Waltzing Consumer

Diddler1977 wrote: »

When they were trying to remove a walk through gate in my area there was talk of "defecation & fornication" occurring at the gate!!!!!

I really hate these blocked up estates that stop people walking and cycling through. We are forced in to our cars - no quality of life comes of this. Would be way better for families if they could walk through short cuts to the Blanch centre, etc.

I really hope you were being sarcastic with that pearl? Seriously, it is a ten minute walk. The fact that there is no gate in Summerfield has ZERO connection to you being forced into a car. How is it better or worse for families? They walk a ten minute journey, bit of a walk, it's good for you, outside air. It is only a wall

Diddler1977

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I really hope you were being sarcastic with that pearl? Seriously, it is a ten minute walk. The fact that there is no gate in Summerfield has ZERO connection to you being forced into a car. How is it better or worse for families? They walk a ten minute journey, bit of a walk, it's good for you, outside air. It is only a wall

Only a wall that you can't walk through.

I was talking about walled estates in general. I feel they diminish the quality of peoples lives because most people end up taking the car rather then walking an extra 10 mins on what may already be a long walk to the Blanch Centre (for example)

I just don't think walled in estates are conducive to walking or cycling in the area.

The Waltzing Consumer

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Only a wall that you can't walk through.

I was talking about walled estates in general. I feel they diminish the quality of peoples lives because most people end up taking the car rather then walking an extra 10 mins on what may already be a long walk to the Blanch Centre (for example)

I just don't think walled in estates are conducive to walking or cycling in the area.

This all reminds me of one time, I actually saw a girl, with a LADDER, a fricking ladder, going over the wall into summerfield. God's honest truth, there is obviousily an outside chance this girl had to buy a ladder in the centre for something and decided to use it that one time, but more then likely this girl dragged around a ladder because she was so lazy she did not want to walk a few minutes.

Luttrell1975

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I really hope you were being sarcastic with that pearl? Seriously, it is a ten minute walk. The fact that there is no gate in Summerfield has ZERO connection to you being forced into a car. How is it better or worse for families? They walk a ten minute journey, bit of a walk, it's good for you, outside air. It is only a wall

Right. Let's bust a myth here. {rolls up sleeves}

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking you are a biped are you, like not a horse or a centipede? Then you walk at around 5kph depending on your age only slightly slower/quicker. Imagine the Council scheme to cut open the wall happened last time (see "short" attached). Google earth says a walk from Summerfield Lawns to the front of the shopping centre is 519 metres. That would take you 6 minutes.

But... because of a few busy bods the walk is (see "long" attached) is 2,212 metres. If you have stayed as a biped since I started the post then you are going to take you 24 minutes or more.

My mother is hitting the later years of her life and she goes for speed walks with friends and I would say she is fit. I have never... not once seen her walk to the centre when she wants to go there. She isn't sick. She isnt afraid of Coolmine park or Clonsilla. She isn't lazy. But she takes the car.

So end the 10 minute myth please. Its 18 minutes. And when I wore a school uniform it was a 10x2 minute bite out of a 45 minute lunch. So I always climbed and often damaged my clothes on the wall. Somebody else do the sums to prove me wrong or right.

Luttrell1975

BostonB wrote: »

Well at least you're not bitter.

Bitter as a lemon. All the same why not just do the right thing and put one gate in the wall for people without cars?

SpatialPlanner

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

Bitter as a lemon. All the same why not just do the right thing and put one gate in the wall for people without cars?

It's an interesting point you make. I wonder if it makes a difference for people in the estate who don't/can't own a car. Especially in the current economic climate and considering the cost of running a car (tax/insurance/fuel).

The Waltzing Consumer

Luttrell1975 wrote: »

. Somebody else do the sums to prove me wrong or right.

why would anyone bother, the time it would take, you could walk to the centre :rolleyes: 10 minutes, 18 minutes, this sounds very joe duffy-ish. A couple of extra minutes walk, big deal, you get a bit more exercise, you don't damage your clothes, the estate remains a bit more private.

The Waltzing Consumer

SpatialPlanner wrote: »

It's an interesting point you make. I wonder if it makes a difference for people in the estate who don't/can't own a car. Especially in the current economic climate and considering the cost of running a car (tax/insurance/fuel).

Yeah, in the current economic climate, people buying cars to go shopping in the blanch centre is certainly up there at the top of the priority list. Have you even been to summerfield?

Listen, Irish children are getting fatter, at least this way, they get exercise hopping over a wall or taking the long way round.

Morag

If there was a way through then it would make it more likely that people would walk from the bus stop on the clonsilla road, through to the socail welfare office for a lot of people, including old and disabled people.

SpatialPlanner

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah, in the current economic climate, people buying cars to go shopping in the blanch centre is certainly up there at the top of the priority list. Have you even been to summerfield?

Listen, Irish children are getting fatter, at least this way, they get exercise hopping over a wall or taking the long way round.

NO, not in the estate but I am familiar with it. Do you live there?

The Waltzing Consumer

Sharrow wrote: »

If there was a way through then it would make it more likely that people would walk from the bus stop on the clonsilla road, through to the socail welfare office for a lot of people, including old and disabled people.

It would take longer for people to get off the bus beside the broadway entrance, walk through summerfield and down the blanchardstown road to the social welfare office then it would for a person to get off one stop earlier outside springlawn, walk around the garda station and up the short distance to the welfare office which is closer that way.

I don't even think old or disabled people go to that social welfare office, oap's go to the post office to collect pensions.

And if this is the argument, why not build a gate at springlawn? That is directly opposite the social welfare offices, it is certainly not summerfield.

The Waltzing Consumer

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Only a wall that you can't walk through.
.

Ah yes, my mistake, I forgot about those walls you can't walk through, I always think of walls you can walk through. my bad

The Waltzing Consumer

SpatialPlanner wrote: »

NO, not in the estate but I am familiar with it. Do you live there?

How can you be familiar with an estate if you have never been there? That does not make sense. Oh and no I don't live there, live around the corner, I have family there, clonsilla road, delwood, coolmine and spent most of my life here, so I am familiar with it too, familiar meaning, I have been there.

SpatialPlanner

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

How can you be familiar with an estate if you have never been there? That does not make sense.

If you read my post back you will see I wrote that I had not been 'in' the estate but was familiar with it. I think that makes sense.

The Waltzing Consumer

SpatialPlanner wrote: »

If you read my post back you will see I wrote that I had not been 'in' the estate but was familiar with it. I think that makes sense.

Yeah I read it, it is only one sentence, kinda hard to miss. You have not been in it but you are familiar with it. I have not been in the White House but I am familiar with it , that way you mean?

SpatialPlanner

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah I read it, it is only one sentence, kinda hard to miss. You have not been in it but you are familiar with it. I have not been in the White House but I am familiar with it , that way you mean?

Gosh, I don't know if I've said something or done something to offend you but the tone of your posts toward me are displaying a high level of intolerance. If you don't like what I say, ignore my posts. If I have done something to offend, report it to the Mods.

The Waltzing Consumer

SpatialPlanner wrote: »

Gosh, I don't know if I've said something or done something to offend you but the tone of your posts toward me are displaying a high level of intolerance. If you don't like what I say, ignore my posts. If I have done something to offend, report it to the Mods.

The tone is more amusement. This thread features very cranky people who seem to be very lazy and moan about a feckin wall which is so unique because pretty much all estates in Dublin West have walls, boundaries, fences, cul de sacs, and, yes we all know that these things may cause a bit more of a commute, but I have never read about these estates acting like it is was some terrible blight or punishment to have to walk a few extra minutes.

The reason I am a bit sarcastic with you is cause you are placating this reasoning with them by showing this academic interest. The wall does not stop and start with summerfield, there are a few more estates on that road who share this same wall and issue, those estates are just not full of moaners, they have more important things to be thinking of and they do not care.

When you saw someone write that the quality of life will not be as good because of this wall, did you not think this may be a bit of a nutter or joe duffy style thread?

SpatialPlanner

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The tone is more amusement. This thread features very cranky people who seem to be very lazy and moan about a feckin wall which is so unique because pretty much all estates in Dublin West have walls, boundaries, fences, cul de sacs, and, yes we all know that these things may cause a bit more of a commute, but I have never read about these estates acting like it is was some terrible blight or punishment to have to walk a few extra minutes.

The reason I am a bit sarcastic with you is cause you are placating this reasoning with them by showing this academic interest. The wall does not stop and start with summerfield, there are a few more estates on that road who share this same wall and issue, those estates are just not full of moaners, they have more important things to be thinking of and they do not care.

When you saw someone write that the quality of life will not be as good because of this wall, did you not think this may be a bit of a nutter or joe duffy style thread?

In honesty, I'm looking at both opinions without getting roped into one side or the other (hopefully). I've read lots of different studies about the issue because of what I'm doing academically and there are reports that advocate stemming connectivity because of antisocial/illegal behaviour. I believe that is a genuine concern for many residents. I've experienced it in my own estate. For example, leaving bins out during the night because the collection is early and you want a lie in. Then at 3am you and neighbours are picking up rubbish off the road because messers have tipped your bin over for the craic or worse, set fire to it. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't happen all of the time but it has. So I have experienced this antisocial behaviour first hand.

On the flip side there is the quality of life opinion that says it's healthier to have permeability through residential areas and the lack of permeability or connectivity has other impacts such as property value (I know, that ol' chestnut) but they're there.

The one thing I have found is that there is extensive information available from studies carried out in other countries but not that much done in Ireland. I'm starting to wonder if it's a case that it divides communities and the council/planners etc are happy to keep out of it and let residents argue about it without giving it the attention it really deserves, and the attention the residents want it to get in order to put the issue to rest once and for all.

So yep, I'll be up front and say I'm doing research on the subject so it could be perceived that I have a vested interest in it. But all I want to do is get peoples view and I'm happy to share my analysis with anyone who is interested. That to me sounds like more than has been done to date, even by the council.

And yes, I've noticed the cranky posts. Maybe I'm not cranky enough to fit in here yet.

Morag

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't even think old or disabled people go to that social welfare office, oap's go to the post office to collect pensions.

They do, esp when it comes to queries also the family mediation offices are there as well as the citizens information offices.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

And if this is the argument, why not build a gate at springlawn? That is directly opposite the social welfare offices, it is certainly not summerfield.

Because it makes sense in terms of access from the clonsilla road and to the junction into the shopping centre.

I get that extra foot traffic can be a bother, the amount of people short cutting through were I live to get to the shops after a pedestrian traffic lights went up was a bit disconcerting at first but people get used to it.

BostonB

If people don't want to walk 20 mins, how are they going to walk around the shopping center.

TheChrisD

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Yeah I read it, it is only one sentence, kinda hard to miss. You have not been in it but you are familiar with it. I have not been in the White House but I am familiar with it , that way you mean?

Maybe it's because that person knows the area well due to having lived in the area? Maybe having visited friends or relatives in the vicinity?


When I was younger, about 5-6 years ago at this stage, I used to walk up to the Blanch Centre that way by hopping the wall. Even at my young age, it baffled me why there is no way for pedestrian traffic to get through there seeing as it is a main exit road from the Centre. While it did involve a climb, is sure was a hell of a lot easier to me to walk from St. Brigid's Park to the Centre via the Roselawn Road and through Summerfield, that in was to have to walk through the village and around that way, especially because the main shops that I was walking to go to were in and around the Blue entrance.

I have a similar gripe with the Ongar Road. I have to drive along there several times to get back here to Dunboyne and I don't see how there are so many estates and houses bordering the Ongar Road, but have no way of walking to the road itself without having to take a huge detour. It's even worse since the 39A is their more regular bus, so generally that's where they'd have to go to to get it.

BostonB

I would expect most of these new estates don't have pedestrian access and laneway, is because they've spent the last 30yrs closing them all up in many of the old estates, due many of them being hotspots for crime, even no go areas at night. Estate I lived in was plagued for a with car thefts, they closed off all the pedestrian access to the main road and fell to almost nothing. Ditto house burglaries.

Diddler1977

Personally as a cyclist and regular walker I prefer to see estates opened up to pedestrians so that cyclists and walkers can take the most convenient and short walks to where you are going.

Another gripe that I have is the silly gates that the council put up at walk throughs. They are fine for walkers, but I struggle to get my bike through. The ones leading in to Portersgate are particularly bad. They are the gates that as you walk in to them you push the gate ahead of you and then walk around it (sorry hard to explain).

SpatialPlanner

I'm carrying out my academic survey in Blanchardstown tomorrow and would be glad of the opportunity to talk to anyone interested in discussing the accessibility issue.

Regardless of your view, I would be glad of your input. I am also wondering where is the best place to carry out the survey. I might try to talk to residents from two estates to get a flavour of opinion. Any recommendations?

I am also interviewing council officials next Wednesday in Grove Rd and I will be asking them about their point of view.

In a way, this survey may put the issue to rest once and for all (fingers crossed). Imagine, a query posted on boards.ie more than a year ago will actually have some conclusion. boards.ie playing its part! Nice one!:)

green_dub_girl

DublinDilbert wrote: »

..

A gate with a code lock on it would probably be a good compromise.

I don't agree with this-this route cuts a long journey for lot of people in the Clonsilla Rd./Roselawn area, if there was a code for Summerfield residents only it wouldn't solve the problem really.

This is exactly the kind of thing that results in people living 300m from the Blanch Centre-DRIVING for ten mins to get there!

The area is safe, with a good sense of community (IMO) and really I think this is a perfect example of the extremely poor planning that was so evident during the boom.

BostonB

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Personally as a cyclist and regular walker I prefer to see estates opened up to pedestrians so that cyclists and walkers can take the most convenient and short walks to where you are going.

Another gripe that I have is the silly gates that the council put up at walk throughs. They are fine for walkers, but I struggle to get my bike through. The ones leading in to Portersgate are particularly bad. They are the gates that as you walk in to them you push the gate ahead of you and then walk around it (sorry hard to explain).

Kissing gate. If they are big enough its not problem, but if they are made too small it can be a problem.

Its kinda inconvenient to drive around too. Why not just open it up as a road. People would be able to drive the shortest route then.

SpatialPlanner

green_dub_girl wrote: »

I don't agree with this-this route cuts a long journey for lot of people in the Clonsilla Rd./Roselawn area, if there was a code for Summerfield residents only it wouldn't solve the problem really.

This is exactly the kind of thing that results in people living 300m from the Blanch Centre-DRIVING for ten mins to get there!

The area is safe, with a good sense of community (IMO) and really I think this is a perfect example of the extremely poor planning that was so evident during the boom.

You have a point. I know that Fingal Co Co has, in the past installed a gate in Donabate that is unlocked in the morning and locked in the evening by them.