Re: is this legal thread

Mrs Me

Hi

I posted this thread. Don't know why is was locked.

I am only wondering is this common in websites for the developers to have it registered in there name and you own the copyright?

I did not nor do not intend to mention the company. It is not legal advise I am looking for. If it was I wouldn't post it here.

Can anyone help me.

Thanks

M

miju

your new to boards but if a thread is locked it is not wise to start a new one on the same topic. best bet would be to PM the mod in question or post in the feedback forum

aidan_walsh

Moved to Feedback from the Webmaster forum.

As I stated in the thread (and subsequently via PM), if you have a question on whether or not something is legal,the best course of action is to consult a lawyer. There is no guarantee that any advice you may have received in that thread is sound or correct.

I am only wondering is this common in websites for the developers to have it registered in there name and you own the copyright?

That wasn't the question originally posed in the thread.

aidan_walsh

In the OPs defense, she did send a PM stating the same thing that was posted in this thread. I replied in kind.

Gordon

What do you mean that they have it registered in their name? Are you talking about the domain name? Or did you use oscommerce, or zencart?

Mrs Me

Hi Gordon

They have registered my website in there name, so at the moment they own it, I don't own my website. Is this something that happens for a period of time, maybe waiting for payment?

The domain name is also in there name, but this is the case with every business that had a website done by them. This might be common I don't know.

I know they would have some hold over it as they used there own packages to write it

Thanks

Gordon

So you went through a company to get a website and they bought the domain from you and sorted out your hosting right?

In this case I wouldn't go into what your legal rights are here as I am not a lawyer, and people here cannot advise you on the law here. If I was you I would check over your contract with these people and see what is written wrt ownership of domain and hosting. Then get yourself to a lawyer.

Mrs Me

Sorry Gordon

I forgot to mention, I didn't use OScommerces or Zencart

Gordon

Mrs Me wrote: »

Sorry Gordon

I forgot to mention, I didn't use OScommerces or Zencart

Right, they made you a custom website I presume. (or customised)

Mrs Me

Gordon wrote: »

So you went through a company to get a website and they bought the domain from you and sorted out your hosting right?

In this case I wouldn't go into what your legal rights are here as I am not a lawyer, and people here cannot advise you on the law here. If I was you I would check over your contract with these people and see what is written wrt ownership of domain and hosting. Then get yourself to a lawyer.

I went through a company to get it done. they bought the domain them selves, I am paying a yearly fee for the hosting, email, database management SEO 950 per year. They did everything for me,

I never signed a contract with them. All I have is there sales pitch and the breakdown of the costs.

I am going to get legal advise on Monday and have a meeting with the web company then but I wanted to have some sort of background info first with regards to the development side of things.

Axwell

Is the domain a .com or a .ie im assuming a .com as they would have needed documentation from you for a .ie - assuming its a .com have you just spoke to them about it before you go to all this trouble with legal issues etc. If they just went and registered it perhaps they didnt have all your details at the time or got a special rate on the domain and hosting. I would ask them first of all about it and about proceeding with a name change on the domain registration details which is easily done. If they are not willing to do this then you could consider legal action but i wouldnt go in all guns blazing just yet.

Mrs Me

Axwell wrote: »

Is the domain a .com or a .ie im assuming a .com as they would have needed documentation from you for a .ie - assuming its a .com have you just spoke to them about it before you go to all this trouble with legal issues etc. If they just went and registered it perhaps they didnt have all your details at the time or got a special rate on the domain and hosting. I would ask them first of all about it and about proceeding with a name change on the domain registration details which is easily done. If they are not willing to do this then you could consider legal action but i wouldnt go in all guns blazing just yet.

It is a .com, I was there when he registered it. It only took a few mins. funny enough I was given a list of what companies they did jobs for. Out of the 14 only 2 are .ie . There own website is .ie

Is a .ie better than a .com . that is - they know you are from Ireland straight away with a .ie as with a .com you could be anywhere?

Do you think 950 is a fair amount to pay for annual hosting, email, data base management and SEO.

What is data base management - I enter all the product details and prices, they only set up the suppliers. If I need anything new to be added eg a new feature I have to pay extra.

I have only ranked first place a few times with there SEO, is this common after a year?

I would love to avoid the legal side of things, too much hassle. But if they have underhandded me then.

EKRIUQ

As far as I know if the domain is your personal name you have rights on that, but if its not the if its registered in their name "THEY OWN IT".

Some shopping carts can cost from €0-1000's of euro each year so €65 per month plus vat doesn't seem that much if their hosting and management of a shopping cart if you were to get one your self it might cost between 50-100per month with out being able to look after the databases so your not being over charged.

I have only ranked first place a few times with there SEO, is this common after a year?

Google ranks on certain aspects if your doesn't meet it then it won't rank number 1 not your hosts fault and I bet if you type "site:www.yourdomain.com" into google you will see plenty of pages there.

From my experience once you stop hosting with a provider your files stop reaching the internet as well. And even if you got them would you know what to do with them?

Sully

Mrs Me: Really a lot of your questions should be directed back in the Webmaster Forum.

.ie - More Irish, and I personally think any Irish business/service should use it. It stands out from the crowd.

.com - Everyone has one, its easy to get one and its cheap. There still good, but I go back to my comment on the .ie

Hosting - Depends on the plan. Prices are different everywhere. What do you mean by Database Management? Do you mean some sort of Content Management System or Shopping Cart System? As for the SEO.. there is a special forum on that. Depends on what SEO there doing.

Registration - Just ask them to change it to yours. No big deal, and nothing to start getting legal action for. Just ask them to change the registration info so its under your name. After that, if they start refusing or whatever then consider legal action. But as Aidan said, nobody here can offer you the best advice on that. Seek legal advise.

Goodshape

If you're worried I'd recommend contacting the developers in question and asking them to clarify.

I AM NOT A LAWYER.... but it doesn't sound necessarilly underhanded to me. You pay them a yearly fee and, in return, they ensure your website remains hosted and domain name remains registered.

It's not impossible to have the domain name transfered to yourselves but this will mean taking care of it yourself. The way you describe it sounds like they are simply providing you with an easier solution as part of the package. Nothing underhanded going on.

EKRIUQ

Would this not be better in the webmaster forum?

aidan_walsh

BingoBongo wrote: »

Would this not be better in the webmaster forum?

The OPs original question was closed in the Webmaster forum because of this very thing happening, advice being given by people who are not lawyers on what the OP appears to want to know from a legal perspective (i.e. who owns the identity/site).

RoundyMooney

aidan_walsh wrote: »

The OPs original question was closed in the Webmaster forum because of this very thing happening, advice being given by people who are not lawyers on what the OP appears to want to know from a legal perspective (i.e. who owns the identity/site).

Proper order.

Mrs Me

Looking back now I think the word legal was the wrong word to use. Only seeking advise on the background of web developement.

The problem I have is alot of business have moved from this company because they were unhappy with them. I only heard this recently. There is alot of angry one-sided opinions about them going around.

I want to get my facts right about web development first before going in with all guns blaring.

I did get a good few points about my concerns, which have cleared up some of my concerns. Thank you for that.

My main concern now is getting them to change the registeration from them to me so i own it.

Thanks for your replies

DeVore

If you paid them to register the name for you then you should be the Admin and Billing contacts, they can remain the Tech contact to handle the details. The billing name is the one that owns it (afaicr).

If some crowd have been paid to register it in your name and develop a website for you then it would be considered a shocking revelation to hear they had kept it for themselves. Its typically believed by the industry, that clients are technical babes-in-the-woods and shouldnt be taken advantage of in that way. What your legal rights are in this case though, I've no idea.

DeV.
ps: I've moved this to web development forum , Feedback is for feedback on Boards issues.

Sully

DeVore wrote: »

If some crowd have been paid to register it in your name and develop a website for you then it would be considered a shocking revelation to hear they had kept it for themselves. Its typically believed by the industry, that clients are technical babes-in-the-woods and shouldnt be taken advantage of in that way.

Agreed, but I would imagine a simple request to the company would sort all this mess out!

As for reviews, until we know the name of the company we cant give any comments.

Bob the Builder

Sully wrote: »

As for reviews, until we know the name of the company we cant give any comments.

As it is, we are dealing with a pig in the bag....
We can't form personal opinions, or even biased ones for that matter about the company or what their planning to do with this, but such a thing is common in the case that:
For a .com domain, there is four contact headings(afaik): Admin/Billing/Technical/Registration Company.

Admin & Billing should be in your/your companies name.(You)
Technical should be the webmasters'/design company's name(Them)
Registration is the company who the domain is "hosted" with.

^^^ Thats how professional companies do business.

If three categories are in their name, they get the upper hand, and could immediatley steal it in the morning(not scaring you, just letting you know), and to get the domain back, you would have to go to an upper authority such as the Small Claims Court(or likewise).

Your next course of action is to speak to your company and get either verbal or (preferably) written assurance's of the company that they are designing a website, a description of the jobs they are doing, and what domains they are doing the jobs on. get that signed and thats you covered. They dont even need to write how much they are charging you, they just need to set in stone that you are their client, then they can't steal anything or claim ownership on the domain.

Regards, and good luck.
NevF

SimpleSam06

Mrs Me wrote: »

My main concern now is getting them to change the registeration from them to me so i own it.

If you paid them for the domain name, you own it. It would be helpful to have receipts / invoices stating this however. What you could do is ask them for an itemised receipt, since your accountant needs it. Once you have that, you can simply request a transfer of ownership.

There probably isn't anything malicious in their actions, its fairly normal for clients to "want a website" and receive a bill at the end of every year for name and hosting. Most people don't want to be fiddling around with servers and whatnot. That the name isn't in your name is probably laziness on their part.

Likewise, its very normal practise to transfer names as and when the owner wants; some truly bad eggs might try to charge a fee for that, but once you have your receipt you can claim it either way.

mneylon

Unfortunately this kind of thing happens very often. We see it all the time.

In some cases the developers / designers don't do it intentionally or have any malice when they do it. If that's the case simply asking them to update the domain's details to reflect yours should resolve the issue.

In other cases the developer / designer registers the domain to themselves intentionally, which is where it gets very messy.

democrates

I always insist the customer gets the domain in their own name and explain about ownership and vendor lock-in. If they're technophobes I offer to assist and all they have to do is insert their payment details when required.

I don't resell hosting either so I have the same policy with that side of it, but unlike domains I'm generally the only one using the CP/ftp etc.

SimpleSam06 is bang on, the first reaction I usually get is "I thought you could look after all these things?" so it's not surprising if some developers just agree to do everything for fear of losing the job.

There are some nasties out there too though, using "this is business" as a carte blanche for any practice regardless of the customers' best interests.

Bob the Builder

democrates wrote: »

....

I agree with Democrates. I have only recently began designing websites, and even more recently did I introduce an itemised contract(contains everything), saying what I'm doing and why. I email it to the client, and wait for a reply, and I deem them as having read everything, and agreed to it, unless they asked a question, therefore I wait for another email. The email can be very long but it works just like a contract.

It's nasty Biz alright, and the IT industry can be a bitch sometimes, but yah just gotta live with it.

Just out of curiousity, blacknight... Whats your plan of action when such an event happens, and you receive complaints. Do you just bite the bullet and fire at will, or is there a procedure for this type of "domain theft"?

Mrs Me

I have gone throught the invoices I am paying for hosting. Is hosting part of the domain name or are they seperate. Sorry a bit green about that part. I was not billed or paid for the domain name.

So if I was to transfered the domain name to my business name, it would be extra work for me and I haven't a clue about it, so it would be better for me to leave it with the web company.

So really the most important thing to do is get my website registered back into my business name as one poster said is easy to do.

I also need to get my invoices redone and itemised so I will know exactly what they are doing.

thanks for your help

mneylon

Hosting is usually separate.

Sully

Mrs Me wrote: »

I have gone throught the invoices I am paying for hosting. Is hosting part of the domain name or are they seperate. Sorry a bit green about that part. I was not billed or paid for the domain name.

I don't know many who do itemised bills.. though, I always keep hosting separate from the web development / design.

So if I was to transferred the domain name to my business name, it would be extra work for me and I haven't a clue about it, so it would be better for me to leave it with the web company.

Hence why they are assigned the "Tech" part of the domain. They control all that. This has been explained in a fairly detailed post here:

Parts of the registration should be in your name, and parts in the technicians. Its easily changed, just ask them to make the changes and 9/10 it will be. I get the feeling you are panicking, when there is probably nothing to worry about!

So really the most important thing to do is get my website registered back into my business name as one poster said is easy to do.

Again, just email them and ask them nicely.

I also need to get my invoices redone and itemised so I will know exactly what they are doing.

Just ask them to do design, hosting and domain separately if you would like to see what each costs.

eoinhealy

Hi, I just had a quick glance at the posts.

I would suggest going to www.who.is

Enter your domain name in the box provided and click the search button.

You will see a list of who is the Registrant, Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, and Billing Contact.

If it is registered in your name then your name will be in Billing Contact and Registrant. The Hosting company can have their name in Tech and Admin because they do the admin and tech stuff.

This way you can find out who owns the domain name.

Simple and easy. No need for half the confussion in this thread.

Adam

eoinhealy wrote: »

Hi, I just had a quick glance at the posts.

I would suggest going to www.who.is

Enter your domain name in the box provided and click the search button.

You will see a list of who is the Registrant, Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, and Billing Contact.

If it is registered in your name then your name will be in Billing Contact and Registrant. The Hosting company can have their name in Tech and Admin because they do the admin and tech stuff.

This way you can find out who owns the domain name.

Simple and easy. No need for half the confussion in this thread.

A great post there from Eoin, as nobody (even me) thought to ask the OP if he had done this!