How important is religion for well-being?

Bottle_of_Smoke

And also the negative effects of realising there is no God.

When I was younger I believed in God, regularly prayed. It was nice & comforting. I'm wondering what effect the realisation that a support I once had is now gone

I used to argue with born-agains who approched me on the street, now I just don't, I can see how happy its making them & I just don't want any part in ruining that.

Homeopathy is something I also wanted to discuss - is it something akin to a religious belief. IE believing water remembering the influence of molecules can cure something to me seems as likely as the bible being true.

So is a religious placebo more powerful than your average placebo? If it is, does it suggest being religious may have an affect on our overall well-being?

've found myself wishing I believed in God after seeing the positive effects it has on some people but I just don't.

Hopefully I'm wrong

Zillah

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

And also the negative effects of realising there is no God.

There's a very important difference between never believing in God and losing belief in God. The latter having far more potential for life upsetting confusion.

I used to argue with born-agains who approched me on the street, now I just don't, I can see how happy its making them & I just don't want any part in ruining that.

I don't argue with them because I think it will make them happier, I argue with them because I think they and others like them are a liability to the future of our society.

Homeopathy is something I also wanted to discuss - is it something akin to a religious belief.

Yes, its mystical poppycock with no basis in reality. Its not really big enough to be described as a religion, but it definately ranks up there with the like of Jewish Golems or Warlock curses.

So is a religious placebo more powerful than your average placebo?

Not that I've heard of.

If it is, does it suggest being religious may have an affect on our overall well-being?

I remember reading a very interesting UN study (which I posted here at the time) that showed that overall levels of health, education, happiness, wealth etc were inversely correlated with religious belief. The more atheistic a nation, the happier/healthier/wealthier they were. The only exceptions I believe were suicide rates being higher in secular nations.

've found myself wishing I believed in God after seeing the positive effects it has on some people but I just don't.

You'd be a prisoner to it. Take pride in the fact that you can walk tall without their ridiculousness.

estebancambias

Zillah, can you just explain to me something, how do you define an 'Atheistic nation'?

What nations would you call being more Atheist?

Princess J

Zillah - just a quick question about your comment on homeopathy. You say it's "mystical poppycock with no basis in reality". Just wondering what information you're basing this on?

Dades

estebancambias wrote: »

What nations would you call being more Atheist?

Uh, I assume the countries with the lowest incidence of belief in god(s)?

This was the most recent stat I could find on the top ten.

1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia

Some of the highest standards of living found in some of the above countries.
Obviously, with some notable exceptions.

estebancambias

Wow Sweden is high, and obviously has a high standard of living.


I still think that study is nothing more than coincidental. I don't know how believing(or non-believing) would have any impact on how content you are, or are not.

I might even call the study a load of crap if it made out that these people are happier due to their Atheism.

Conduct that investigation around 1990 in Ireland, and I'm sure Ireland would have ranked very high.

http://www.welcome-moldova.com/articles/moldova-unhappiest-country.shtml

Pompey Magnus

Princess J wrote: »

Zillah - just a quick question about your comment on homeopathy. You say it's "mystical poppycock with no basis in reality". Just wondering what information you're basing this on?

To start with the very concept of homeopathy is ridiculous if you understand chemistry. A 30C preparation will have 1 active part per million million million million million million million million million million parts of the original substance.
A 100C preparation is one in which the active ingredient is diluted by more than the total number of atoms in the entire universe. It is ridiculous.

Famously, during a presentation to US Congress members, James Randi consumed an entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills, 64 times the recommended "safe dose" according to the label, and didn't even get drowsy. He offers $1,000,000 for anyone who can prove the paranormal (including homeopathy), as yet the prize is unclaimed.

Double blind tests have been carried out in which a test group of say, 200 people, are randomly split into two groups. One group are prescribed homeopathic medicines and the other group are given sugar pills. The results, time and again, show no statistical difference between the effects of the treatments of the two groups. Homeopathy takes advantage of the human body's incredible self healing ability and sells it back to people for a tidy profit.

Of course Homeopathy has had historical successes, during the 19th century cholera epidemic in London homeopathic hospitals had a three times lower death count compared to traditional hospitals, this however was because there was no known cure for cholera and the traditional medicines were actively harmful to the patients (such as blood letting) while the homeopathic treatment may not have done any good, but it also didn't do any harm.

Zillah

estebancambias wrote: »

Zillah, can you just explain to me something, how do you define an 'Atheistic nation'?

I believe Dades has addressed this.

Princess J wrote: »

Zillah - just a quick question about your comment on homeopathy. You say it's "mystical poppycock with no basis in reality". Just wondering what information you're basing this on?

Well, just do a google search, God, there's millions of results. Homeopathy is based on the notion that water can remember the qualities of other substances it has encountered and cures illness by treating "like with like". Neither of these processes has any basis whatsoever in the real world, no scientific study has ever shown that any such properties exist, someone just made them up. By every test we can perform, homeopathic remedies are identical to normal water, except perhaps one or two molecules of the original ingredient which is way too little to do anything.

Any effectiveness that homeopathic remedies have had are just the placebo effect. Every new drug or treatment that is released must pass this hurdle, it must be proven to be more effective than a placebo. Homeopathy has failed in this regard.

estebancambias wrote: »

I still think that study is nothing more than coincidental. I don't know how believing(or non-believing) would have any impact on how content you are, or are not.

I might even call the study a load of crap if it made out that these people are happier due to their Atheism.

But...you haven't even seen the study... You can't dismiss the facts just because you don't like them. Here's the original thread I started: Click, and here's the study itself. Its actually not by the UN, but it does reference many sources, several of which are UN studies.

Zillah

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Famously, during a presentation to US Congress members, James Randi consumed an entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills, 64 times the recommended "safe dose" according to the label, and didn't even get drowsy.

Haha, this guy is so much better at explaining this part than me

estebancambias

Cheers; good read.

Dades

estebancambias wrote: »

I might even call the study a load of crap if it made out that these people are happier due to their Atheism.

I'd agree with that. In fact I'd suggest the opposite may be true - people are atheist due to their happiness.

There is definitely a correlation between standard of living and religious belief. The poorer the country - the higher the religiosity. God is hope.

Ruskie4Rent

Dades wrote: »

I'd agree with that. In fact I'd suggest the opposite may be true - people are atheist due to their happiness.

There is definitely a correlation between standard of living and religious belief. The poorer the country - the higher the religiosity. God is hope.

I think it has to do with poorer education more so than hope. God is ignorance.

Dades

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

I think it has to do with poorer education more so than hope.

I suppose the less educated the population, the poorer they will be. Then again you could say the harsher and more unpredictable your climate it, the more religious you will be. Two many factors to call. But I still think the less you have in the real world, the more you require there to be something in the next.

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

God is ignorance.

Indeed. I'm sure you run that one past your ignorant parents/relatives/friends all the time.

legspin

Ruskie4Rent wrote: »

I think it has to do with poorer education more so than hope. God is ignorance.

Dades wrote: »

Indeed. I'm sure you run that one past your ignorant parents/relatives/friends all the time.

And unfortunatly for alot of people ignorance is bliss.

Ruskie4Rent

Dades wrote: »

Indeed. I'm sure you run that one past your ignorant parents/relatives/friends all the time.

Well neither of my parents are religious, and i don't have too many religious friends, most of them would say they're athiest.
Its not really a case of me saying those who believe in a God are ignorant, I was commenting on how a lack of education leaves people unable to question some uncertainties. They believe what everyone else believes.

18AD

I just came across this interesting little article:
http://www.physorg.com/news119882379.html

It's interesting how they mention war in the closing paragraph.

*retires to reflect alone with imaginary friends*

All the best.
AD.