Overtaking in the slow lane, is it illegal?

GrumPy

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

Its not wrong to flash your lights to make them aware of it if they are not doing 60MPH, but if someone is doing 60MPH, then they have absolutely NO obligation to move over to let you through to break the law. You are not above the law. If somebody who thinks they own the road pulls up behind me with their 07, or 08, and flashing me to move over, i take great pleasure in sticking it to the middle of the road as they shouldn't be doing more than the speed limit anyways. Its those ignorant f*cks that cause all the accidents.

You sir, are the type of person who cause accidents. :rolleyes:

D_murph

Kiya wrote: »

oh mi god, will you get off your soapbox!
YOU are in the wrong, its exactly drivers like you (not without mentioning that HUGE chip on your shoulder against people driving new cars, whats with that anyway? ) that create accidents. you should NOT be sitting in the right lane period.

i think its rich that you called people who flash you "ignorant f'cks" when you're in effect causing them to tailgate etc.
& as for excusing your terrible driving behaviour with the reasoning that you only do it "If somebody thinks they own the road...." you're just going ahead & doing exactly the same thing.

ahem ok rant over :cool:

i cant agree more. the poster you quoted here has the worst attitude ive ever read on here but unfortunately i see a lot of it every day.

who do these people think they are? they should have joined the traffic corps if thats how they think.

oh wait, not really an option because J2J has not grasped yet, after 3 years that its kilometres we use here now and not miles out of all the preaching about the law. it is illegal to hog the right lane but i guess thats another fact he/she missed in the hurry to post up about what a good little girl they are :rolleyes:.

its amazing how some people think really :rolleyes:.

Andrewf20

Its clear from this thread once again, that there are folks on one side of the camp who look at the objective hard fact rules of the road (legal vs illegal) and folks on the other side of the camp who have a more subjective opinion, i.e. make a judgement based on the conditions independent of what the law says and therefore argue if the law is not entirely realistic for all situations. I think its hard to sway folks to join the other side.

Like all those speeding threads that can go around in circles, at the end of the day, what it boils down to is what IS dangerous driving? I think a subjective answer is likely to arise.

Sandwich

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Its clear from this thread once again, that there are folks on one side of the camp who look at the objective hard fact rules of the road (legal vs illegal) and folks on the other side of the camp who have a more subjective opinion, i.e. make a judgement based on the conditions independent of what the law says and therefore argue if the law is not entirely realistic for all situations. I think its hard to sway folks to join the other side.

Like all those speeding threads that can go around in circles, at the end of the day, what it boils down to is what IS dangerous driving? I think a subjective answer is likely to arise.

You are right about these discussions going around in circles with two poles of opinion which never seem to move position.

Disagree with your bottom line though. While we can give a subjective answer on what IS dangerous driving, it should not affect our driving style - while driving we should obey the law whatever we think of it. Thats civilised society rather than anarchy. If we disagree we are free to campaign, lobby, vote etc, to have a new system applied. For me it boils down to following the code that is inforce today. If that is overly safe, then fine, but have the system changed rather than just doing your own thing.

Zascar

Mmmmmm, some interesting thoughts on the post in legal forum, I think it's silly that the law is not more clear. As far as I have been aware "Undertaking" someone on a dual carriageway just cause they are going slower than you want to is illegal. It doesn't stop me doing it though. I do it all the time. I wish I did not have to. If people correctly understood proper driving position on dual carriageways and motorways, I would not have to overtake, but I feel its safer for me quickly pass on the inside than to tailgate and flash as some people do. I try to avoid flashing people unless absolutely necessary.

It amazes me how many people do not know the rules for correct positioning on dual carriageways and motorways. Even look at how many people in this thread incorrectly refer to the "Fast Lane".

I totally agree with Kiya, Y2J_MUFC is the worse type of driver out there. It is not your job to enforce the speed limit by blocking a lane. Go to Templemore and get yourself a badge if you want to do that.

Mr. Presentable

Andrewf20 wrote: »

make a judgement based on the conditions .

Everybody should make a driving judgment based on conditions - in consideration also of the law. Which does not allow one to drive at 150kph just because they adjudge conditions to suit it.

Andrewf20

Of course, but I think its interesting to have these arguments to debate whether the laws are 100% watertight all the time, hence suggesting, is the law entirely realistic for all situations?

cormie

nipplenuts wrote: »

Which does not allow one to drive at 150kph just because they adjudge conditions to suit it.

Doesn't allow it but it still could be perfectly safe to do so.

If speed limits were abolished tomorrow, would people become better drivers as they'd have to actually pay attention to what's going on around them instead of just sticking to a speed? Probably. May be a few more crashes but probably an increase in driver awareness too.

Sandwich

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Of course, but I think its interesting to have these arguments to debate whether the laws are 100% watertight all the time, hence suggesting, is the law entirely realistic for all situations?

Laws being 100% watertight all the time is really the numb of the question here I think also.

The ROTR are written with an assumption that all other drivers are obeying them, so if you do too, than all will be well. They are not written to allow for all eventualities where the rest of the world does not conform to the ROTR, and so leave us with the type of situation being discussed. The lane hogger is at fault - and common sense suggests we should just pass them in the left lane. But the rules, not taking the lane hogger into account only have the ideal situation explicitly stated - pass on the right. So we break the rule if we use common sense. Hence the conflict we all ('pass on the left' and 'obey the rule, dont pass' folk alike) feel. And so it devides in to two distinct camps since no middle ground exists (ghost through him, fly over...:D):

- people with a strong sence of the law : 'it says dont pass, so dont'
- people comfortable flouting a clear law : 'he's wrong, so the law cant expect me to delay my journey because of him - besides its perfectly safe to pass anyway so what the problem?'

And never the twain shall meet.

Only solution is a Rule deciding on this particular issue, as happens in many situations.

(BTW, the slow moving traffic getout for overtaking in the left doesnt really work either, its intention is crawling 10mph traffic queues. But again it is poorly written, leaving way for people to justify the second position above, because it does not specify exactly what slow moving traffic is.)

Since the matter cannot be decided by the written rules, we can only take guidance from the implementation of the rules by the Gardai. They do stop people they see overtaking on the left. 'It was safe', 'he was only doing 80' etc, dont wash and you will be penalised.

Andrewf20

Well said.

MajorMax

Tails142 wrote: »

Was driving home the other night on the M4 - not much traffic about an I came upon a guy in an audi driving in the overtaking lane. I was probably doing about 130km/h and he was at about 100km/h in then 120km/h section. so i sat behind him for a good while, we overtook a car or two. Few minutes later, no cars ahead and he's still on the outside. I give him a long flash of my full beams and he decides to pull over.

Grand so, not to hang about I decide to put the foot down and take it up to about 170km/h to put some distance between us. I then settle into my usual 130km/h that I do on the motorway. What do I find only to see the guy behind has picked up his pace and is now keeping distance with me a couple of hundred metres back... why did he decide to speed up after I overtook him one wonders...

My other story is from today on the m50; behind a vw polo saloon type thing with extensive damage to the boot; rear view mirror is clearly used for doing make up as I can see out the drivers window with it; maybe if the rear view mirror had've been used correctly she wouldnt have reversed into something - anyway the whole way along in the overtaking lane with no traffic infront of her and plenty of gaps to move into the driving lane. Frustrating! I would usually undertake in this situtation but the fact that mirrors werent obviosuly being used and there was no hard shoulder to veer into meant I wasnt going to risk it. She then cut someone off when we got to the toll booths and she went to change lanes :rolleyes:

I don't think you're in a position to criticise anyone else for bad driving

Mr. Presentable

Tails142 wrote: »

I decide to put the foot down and take it up to about 170km/h to put some distance between us. I then settle into my usual 130km/h that I do on the motorway.

So, you don't believe the rules of the road apply to you? Why then do you feel entitled to apply them to anyone else?

BillyoftheBeast

If you aren't overtaking then what happens in that lane is of no concern to you. If somebody chooses to drive at 40mph in that lane then you will be passing them but they are the ones breaking the law.

richie_rvf

I just remembered something that happened about a year ago, on the M50 near to Blanch.

It was approx midnight and I was in the left hand lane doing the speed limit, there was a guy driving pretty close behind - in a Mondeo, so, I stuck to the speed limit, you never know!

Going past the Blanch slip road i was catching up on a Micra in the right hand lane, travelling at approx 100kmph, I was still aware of the Mondeo behind so I slowed down rather than undertake, all the way to the Finglas exit the Micra sat there, there was nothing else on the road - the temptation to undertake was very high :mad:

Finally, the Mondeo ran out of patience, he over took me and was behind the Micra with his R/H indicator on, the car didn't move, he flashed, nothing, then he flicked on the blue lights, I was right, an unmarked Mondeo, pulled her in

I guess it is wrong to sit in the overtaking lane :rolleyes:

D_murph

richie_rvf wrote: »

I just remembered something that happened about a year ago, on the M50 near to Blanch.

It was approx midnight and I was in the left hand lane doing the speed limit, there was a guy driving pretty close behind - in a Mondeo, so, I stuck to the speed limit, you never know!

Going past the Blanch slip road i was catching up on a Micra in the right hand lane, travelling at approx 100kmph, I was still aware of the Mondeo behind so I slowed down rather than undertake, all the way to the Finglas exit the Micra sat there, there was nothing else on the road - the temptation to undertake was very high :mad:

Finally, the Mondeo ran out of patience, he over took me and was behind the Micra with his R/H indicator on, the car didn't move, he flashed, nothing, then he flicked on the blue lights, I was right, an unmarked Mondeo, pulled her in

I guess it is wrong to sit in the overtaking lane :rolleyes:

needs to happen a lot more IMO

jawlie

For anyone who has driven abroad, the standard of driving in Ireland is appalling. No lane discipline, cars careering across two or three lanes to make a turn, rather than getting in the correct lane in advance, lack of courtesy, and a general lack of understanding on how to drive safely.

Having said that, the mania for the road planners for traffic lights is bizarre, and its not uncommon for traffic to flow more smoothly and have less or no queues when traffic lights are out of order, in many cases.

javaboy

jawlie wrote: »

No lane discipline, cars careering across two or three lanes to make a turn, rather than getting in the correct lane in advance, lack of courtesy, and a general lack of understanding on how to drive safely.

Yeah I love Spain too. :eek:

mcguiver

It's scary the amount of threads on motoring issues.


Simple answer,
if you don't know the answer you don't know the rules of the road.
If you don't know the rules of the road, you shouldn't be driving!
If all the people who don't know the rules of the road get off it, no more tail backs, traffic jams etc. etc.

AntiVirus

prospect wrote: »

Technically it is, technically it isn't...

I have often travelled on the left lane of 2 & 3 lane motorways & dual carriage ways, on the speed limit with my cruise control switched on.

If I catch up on a slower moving vehicle in the right lane, I will continue on past them. AFA I am concerned, it is not my problem if they want to sit there, I am not doing anything different, just maintaining a legal speed in a clear lane.

I've been in this situation a few times. I'd be coming up the m50 overtake a car in the lefthand lane and pulll back in. Then about 200 yards up ahead there's some muppet driving at 100kph in the righthand lane. From what some people are saying here. I should slow down and match their speed?

I don't.

thetaxman

There is no doubt that you can be done for this.

WHITE_P

Halfdog wrote: »

I was coming up to Dublin two weeks ago and just before Toomnevara theres a climbing lane that lasts about two miles. This idiot driver had been holding up traffic since Birdhill and refused to use this climbing lane. He was doing about 50mph with a snake of cars behind him. Is it illegal to "Undertake" this guy in the slow lane if he dosent move over?

Do it discreetly!!!
Move into the left lane, pass the offending car / driver (don't boot it to pass though, if he's well below the speed limit, just speed up to that limit) and continue in the left lane for as long as possible, before moving back into the right lane if you need to.

WHITE_P

Tails142: Grand so, not to hang about I decide to put the foot down and take it up to about 170km/h to put some distance between us. I then settle into my usual 130km/h that I do on the motorway. What do I find only to see the guy behind has picked up his pace and is now keeping distance with me a couple of hundred metres back... why did he decide to speed up after I overtook him one wonders...

He was setting you up. He's not in any hurry and didn't want to get done for speeding, then you came along and passed him, so rather than sit there dawdling along as he had been he thinks I'll pace him a few hundred yards back and if the Guards have a speed trap out he will get nicked and I'll just cruise on by, probably give them a little toot on the horn as I pass. Their out there!!!

WHITE_P

prospect wrote: »

Technically it is, technically it isn't...

I have often travelled on the left lane of 2 & 3 lane motorways & dual carriage ways, on the speed limit with my cruise control switched on.

If I catch up on a slower moving vehicle in the right lane, I will continue on past them. AFA I am concerned, it is not my problem if they want to sit there, I am not doing anything different, just maintaining a legal speed in a clear lane.


However, driving up behind someone, changing into the left lane, accelerating passed, and moving back out into the right lane is different.

Couldn't agree more.

WHITE_P

Kiya wrote: »

oh mi god, will you get off your soapbox!
YOU are in the wrong, its exactly drivers like you (not without mentioning that HUGE chip on your shoulder against people driving new cars, whats with that anyway? ) that create accidents. you should NOT be sitting in the right lane period.

i think its rich that you called people who flash you "ignorant f'cks" when you're in effect causing them to tailgate etc.
& as for excusing your terrible driving behaviour with the reasoning that you only do it "If somebody thinks they own the road...." you're just going ahead & doing exactly the same thing.

ahem ok rant over :cool:

You told him !!! When he's lying in a hospital bed either because he's caused an accident or some looper who's had enoght of his type decides to follow him and beat the crap out of him when he stops, he might reconsider his attitude.

WHITE_P

From your attitude I would say you've only passed your test recently!!! When you have 20 odd years experience, and alot more than the normal yearly average milage under your belt, you will see the error in your ways. You are effectively trying to police the roads by doing what you say you are doing. In reality all you are achieving is to upset other drivers, whether they are in the wrong or not by speeding is not for you to judge, or try to stop, that's what the garda traffic corp. is for. Anyway within the next few years our dual carriage ways and so called motor ways will be infested with speed cameras. So don't worry about the speeders.

meesa

gatecrash wrote: »

Seconded.

Thirded.....;)

meesa

I drive to and from Naas from Dublin three evenings a week. I have the left hand lane(of a three lane motorway), virtually to myself all the way in both directions. I stick to approx.100kph as almost all other road users sit in the centre or right lane! I regularly undertake in this lane..I know it`s "wrong" but I don`t see the point in changing lane to overtake someone who is oblivious to the fact that they should be in the available vacant left lane.
In practice, if someone was travelling at 50kph in the right hand lane, all other traffic would have to creep along behind for fear of breaking the law and undertaking!......Simple rule.... drive in the leftmost available lane when not overtaking, unfortunately very few do it.:mad:

tw33k

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

I've seen idiots on this stretch of road "undertaking" lorries, and barely making it before the lanes re-merge. A lot of people simply don't realise that is a climbing lane, because its not very well marked. I had the same thing with some guy doing 30MPH on the fast lane just outside Daly's cross. Thats idiotically slow for there and everyone passed him on the left, he was flashed like 5-6 times. I think theres a bit of common sense needed, and on that stretch of the road theres no need to go on the left that you are taking about. Your just coming into the town anyways, so you'ill be back down (or should be) to 30 in a few hundred yards.

Its not wrong to flash your lights to make them aware of it if they are not doing 60MPH, but if someone is doing 60MPH, then they have absolutely NO obligation to move over to let you through to break the law. You are not above the law. If somebody who thinks they own the road pulls up behind me with their 07, or 08, and flashing me to move over, i take great pleasure in sticking it to the middle of the road as they shouldn't be doing more than the speed limit anyways. Its those ignorant f*cks that cause all the accidents. Ever notice on tv when they show the cars in a major accident, its always those big expensive cars with people who think they are untouchable. They aren't. Sit back, do the speed limit, don't tailgate...if people did that we'd be fine. [ / rant ]

absolute bull**** - obviously don't have a job that can pay for a nice car do you? now, would you like something to go with that chip on your shoulder?

WHITE_P

meesa wrote: »

I drive to and from Naas from Dublin three evenings a week. I have the left hand lane(of a three lane motorway), virtually to myself all the way in both directions. I stick to approx.100kph as almost all other road users sit in the centre or right lane! I regularly undertake in this lane..I know it`s "wrong" but I don`t see the point in changing lane to overtake someone who is oblivious to the fact that they should be in the available vacant left lane.
In practice, if someone was travelling at 50kph in the right hand lane, all other traffic would have to creep along behind for fear of breaking the law and undertaking!......Simple rule.... drive in the leftmost available lane when not overtaking, unfortunately very few do it.:mad:

Excellent point, well made.