Feedback, how were you treated?

faceman

seamus wrote: »

The compulsion to respond.

Trolls are successful because people feel the need to refute controversial/incorrect viewpoints, even when the poster is blatantly a troll.

true, but its often the more experienced posters who keep the troll train going. Its understandable when incorrect points need to be set straight but when it gets to the point where the troll is taking the mick and doing the aul "yizzer all nerds and i have a life outside work bla bla" and people still respond. Me head gets scratched hard at that point!

DeVore

If we're doing something so terribly wrong.... why do the numbers keep going north?


I contend that the people who frequent Feedback are a particular bunch... both avidly pro boards and also fervently against it. In the middle sits , well, the poor befuddled admins/smods really!

We have to make rulings and when you make rulings you p*ss people off. Inevitably!

The trick is to p*ss off the least number of people and the people who "deserve" it and are being "unreasonable". What is unreasonableness defined as?

Thats a tough one, I personally define it as doing things or demanding things that if everyone did them or demanded them, the place couldnt continue to function. Its not a perfect formula but then I'm not a perfect person. Nor is this place perfect. Its built on imperfect people trying to do whats best.

I think by and large we make a good fist of it and the numbers reflect that.

DeV.

DeVore

Beruthiel wrote: »

Would ya ever quit being so reasonable DeV, nobody wants to hear it!

Apparently not, not one person has taken up my post or questioned it. You'd think I didnt have any say in what goes on around here

Also, I find it amusing that the lines get shifted all the time. Tallaght01 is (apparently, since I dont notice these things myself, living as I do, in reality), one of the "abused". But (s)he is also a mod so surely therefore covered by the global Mod Conspiracy?

I'm confused. Are we at war with Eurasia?

DeV.

togster

DeVore wrote: »

I contend that the people who frequent Feedback are a particular bunch... both avidly pro boards and also fervently against it. In the middle sits , well, the poor befuddled admins/smods really!

We have to make rulings and when you make rulings you p*ss people off. Inevitably!

Well im not against boards at all. Actually quiet the opposite i love it. But surely the same people shouldn't be aloud to persist at beratting posters who feel they have a genuine issue. I understand that boards does not have to facilatate these things, however all to often pointless threads are aloud to ramble aimlessly littered with cat litter. If we want feedback to function correctly then we should either lock pointless threads by tools and stop the "usual" gang getting on their high horses anytime a thread is opened.

faceman

DeVore wrote: »

Apparently not, not one person has taken up my post or questioned it. You'd think I didnt have any say in what goes on around here

Also, I find it amusing that the lines get shifted all the time. Tallaght01 is (apparently, since I dont notice these things myself, living as I do, in reality), one of the "abused". But (s)he is also a mod so surely therefore covered by the global Mod Conspiracy?

I'm confused. Are we at war with Eurasia?

DeV.

i remember the days when tallaght01 wished he was abused.... (by lots of women)

tallaght01

DeVore wrote: »

Apparently not, not one person has taken up my post or questioned it. You'd think I didnt have any say in what goes on around here

Also, I find it amusing that the lines get shifted all the time. Tallaght01 is (apparently, since I dont notice these things myself, living as I do, in reality), one of the "abused". But (s)he is also a mod so surely therefore covered by the global Mod Conspiracy?

I'm confused. Are we at war with Eurasia?

DeV.

Er, I'm not "abused".

It doesn't stop me thinking that people shouldn't be allowed abuse other posters on here. It's not allowed anywhere else on the site, so I don't know why it's allowed here.

Regardless of whether or not I think someone is dumb, I wouldn't give them abuse when I'm representing an organisation (boards in this case). It's unprofessional. All the favourable stats in the world doesn't make a lack of courtesy right.

I know people will say "we're only mods on our forums", and " we can't be unprofessional, because we don't get paid".

Well, most of the users, as far as I can see, do see the mods as representative of boards, so i think we should act like it. New users also presumably act in the fashion of the mods who post on feedback. If the mods weren't nasty to people, the whole feedback culture would change.

I give up my time voluntarily with other organisations, other than boards. I don't get paid. But I'm always professional. For eg, I work a lot with the red cross. If someone comes in with a stupid complaint, I wouldn't call them a muppet, or say anything derogatory about them. If I did I would be kicked out. I most certainly wouldn't let the other members of the red cross all stick the boot in.

All, I'm trying to say is that I think sometimes the abuse gets out of hand on this forum. Gandalf23 earlier said that complainants should be told why they were banned, and a decision reached about it by someone who has the power to lock the thread aswell. The input of every man and his dog is unneccesary.

Anyway, you can do what you want with that. I've been drawn further intot his argument than I had intended to be. We're all adults, so I guess we'll all just continue to act how we want.

stevenmu

I think a lot of it comes down to seriousness, and the lack thereof. While there are some very serious and very important aspects to boards, most of it isn't that serious or important at all. No disrespect intended, the vast majority of boards is very informative and/or very entertaining, and it's an incredible resource. At the end of the day though it is still just an internet site, but some people take it way to seriously, there have even been (shallow empty) threats of physical violence or lawsuits against moderators for banning people. That's very very rare, but it seems to me that a common theme in the feedback threads that descend into chaos is that the OP is taking something far more seriously than they really need to, talking about tribunals, free speech, UN human rights charters and so on. It also seems to me that a lot of the 'ridiculing' that goes on is simply peoples way of telling people to relax a bit and take it a bit less seriously, albeit through the medium of lolcats.

If you look at most feedback threads there's always some helpful comments directing the op to pm the mod involved, or quoting the charter or explaining the ban, and the rest of the posts are in response to the manner in which the question/compaint/whatever was phrased. Whenever a thread is started in a very reasonable fashion it tends to be replied to in kind.

FlutterinBantam

HavoK wrote: »

You see Dame, it's already happening to you.:p

It's common occurance for every thread to degenerate into ridicule and/or cat pictures - regardless of how valid a complaint or issue is. I've seen stupid threads that deserved it, and I've seen good, thoughtful threads raising valid issues that received the same ridicule. Whatever about 'Fight the Power', there's an equally lame 'Rally the mods' clique around here too at times. I'm sure you're familiar with most of the names.

But what can you do. I'd say the internet and more specifically boards is the only bastion in which certain people can exercise some sort of pseudo authority in their lives.

Candidate for post of the year-well said Havok


So so true

Jack B. Badd

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Candidate for post of the year-well said Havok

The whole post or just the bit you've marked in bold? :rolleyes:

DeVore

I'd love to hear what people think we should do about this perceived "problem".

Put yourself in my shoes... how should one "legislate" for civility? Why should a Mod have to tolerate an idiot who mocks them and not flame them? What about the responsibilities of posters to be civil? What should we do in the case where both are out of order?

What makes you think that what your answer is (and I'm fairly sure I can predict it) isnt already being done?

Come on, its a fun game for all the family. If you were me, what would you change?

DeV

DeVore

by the way Tallaght01, I may not be as far from your position as you might think.



(I mean, ideologically... I'm not, you know, standing behind you or anything...)

DeV.

Nevyn

DeVore wrote: »

Put yourself in my shoes... how should one "legislate" for civility? Why should a Mod have to tolerate an idiot who mocks them and not flame them? What about the responsibilities of posters to be civil? What should we do in the case where both are out of order?

Mods can be given infractions.

tallaght01

I have always thought that you could treat this forum like everywhere else, like personal abuse gets a person banned.

I also think complaints of a certain type (bannings/infractions in particular)should be banned from here, perhaps. Maybe they should only be allowed in the help desk, where only admins can reply.

Civility is maintained, by and large, on the rest of the site through these methods.

But, having never run a website (I can hardly work a computer) I don't know if that's a possibility, or if it's feasable.

faceman

Personal abuse is personal abuse at the end of the day and 2 wrongs dont make a right.

DeVore

If we banned people for abusive posts, half the serious complaints here wouldnt make it past post 1.

DeV.

tallaght01

DeVore wrote: »

If we banned people for abusive posts, half the serious complaints here wouldnt make it past post 1.

DeV.

but surely if it became a rule that if you respond to a feedback thread with abuse you'd get banned form feedback, then people wouldn't give them so much abuse? Or am i being naive?

although, like I said, I don't have the first idea about the ins and outs of running a website

Boston

tallaght01 wrote: »

I have always thought that you could treat this forum like everywhere else, like personal abuse gets a person banned.

I also think complaints of a certain type (bannings/infractions in particular)should be banned from here, perhaps. Maybe they should only be allowed in the help desk, where only admins can reply.

Civility is maintained, by and large, on the rest of the site through these methods.

But, having never run a website (I can hardly work a computer) I don't know if that's a possibility, or if it's feasable.

I dare yea to find a post by me on this forum that is personally abusive towards a single person. Its not that you won't find one if you search under enough rocks, its that personal abuse isn't the issue here, its belittling users.

Boston

tallaght01 wrote: »

but surely if it became a rule that if you respond to a feedback thread with abuse you'd get banned form feedback, then people wouldn't give them so much abuse? Or am i being naive?

although, like I said, I don't have the first idea about the ins and outs of running a website

And what about starting a thread which is abusive?

faceman

Boston wrote: »

I dare yea to find a post by me on this forum that is personally abusive towards a single person. Its not that you won't find one if you search under enough rocks, its that personal abuse isn't the issue here, its belittling users.

Amp was pretty abusive and belittling to the OP in this thread the other day

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055220670

Now i know amp is a character in himself but i thought that this was way too far by his standards. The OP had his ban lifted.

tallaght01

Boston wrote: »

I dare yea to find a post by me on this forum that is personally abusive towards a single person.

Boston wrote: »

Tallaght, you're a complete troll, and have been since day one

Boston wrote: »

Its not that you won't find one if you search under enough rocks, its that personal abuse isn't the issue here, its belittling users.

I do agree with you to some extent. But how do we deal with abusive first posts on other fora? or people who belittle posters elsewhere?

Karoma

Ok, how about limiting whining-about-a-ban threads to mods of that forum (inc. CMods), and the OP. SMods and Admins presiding and temp-banning an OP or moderator that are aggressive and really unhelpful, and anyone posting who isn't associated with thread?
Yes, I wrote "aggressive" and "unhelpful" and as much as I'd love to argue semantics is there any real need? Apply common sense; there'd be a level of consistency on the basis that there's only a handful of SMods and Admins and they all look and think alike anyway.
It'd cut down on the "ganging up" to a great extent.
It'd also cut down on the amount of inane argumentation by moderators and users not associated with the thread.
I'd also suggest moving it into its own forum ('Judge Cloudie' idea again.) as it's really not within the scope of 'Feedback' 99% of the time. Keeping in mind that you'll soon have a full-time developer, Feedback is a great resource if it were used 'right'. You don't want the developer's time wasted thrawling through whiny threads.
It'd be a fresh start, there should be a shift in mentality (for better or worse, I'm honestly not sure) - for example, ab hominem attacks would generally be limited by relevance.


ed: triiiiiiiiiiiibbbbbbbuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllls.

Time Magazine

DeVore wrote: »

I'd love to hear what people think we should do about this perceived "problem".

Give seamus the right to moderate it, if he's willing/mad enough to do it. He's the Smod I see posting here most other than Ruu who, let's be honest, is far too soft to ban anyone .

Personal abuse should not be tolerated. That includes the funny (but funny only to those who are "in the know") amp- and WWM-like behaviour and the stupid "The stupider mods are, the more power they crave" carry-on.

Cat pictures have a very limited role, far less a role than they play at the moment. Modding Feedback would, imho, eliminate much of the shit and promote the sort of rigourous debate about the rules you sometimes see.

Gordon

Ibid wrote: »

Give seamus the right to moderate it, if he's willing/mad enough to do it. He's the Smod I see posting here most other than Ruu who, let's be honest, is far too soft to ban anyone .

Agreed.

And if you want people banned for messing then I'll help mod it

RoundyMooney

I've advocated a more professional approach on Feedback for some time.

I'll see if I can find the post(s)...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53371271&postcount=18

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53375630&postcount=39

Boston

tallaght01 : You have blatantly trolled in the past on this forum. That can be established if need be, so I don't consider that abusive in the least. But its beside the point. If a policy was put in place whereby a user who started an abusive thread on this forum was site banned or where a user was found to be less then truthful, regardless of merit, had their bans enforced in force, then I'd agree with chance.

6th

Ibid wrote: »

Give seamus the right to moderate it, if he's willing/mad enough to do it.

That would solve 99% of the problem imo.

6th

Gordon wrote: »

Agreed.

And if you want people banned for messing then I'll help mod it

Only saw this after I replied and tbh Gordons name sprang to mind the second I read ibids post.

Seamus & Gordon, would sort this place out -anyone that cant see that is blind, anyone that wont admit it is an idiot!

Boston

Ibid wrote: »

Give seamus the right to moderate it, if he's willing/mad enough to do it. He's the Smod I see posting here most other than Ruu who, let's be honest, is far too soft to ban anyone .

Personal abuse should not be tolerated. That includes the funny (but funny only to those who are "in the know") amp- and WWM-like behaviour and the stupid "The stupider mods are, the more power they crave" carry-on.

Cat pictures have a very limited role, far less a role than they play at the moment. Modding Feedback would, imho, eliminate much of the shit[/url] and promote the sort of rigourous debate about the rules you sometimes see.

Well whats the ethos of this forum? I may be speaking out of turn but afair the original idea was that it should be difficult to be banned from feedback. This was the avoid the appearance of en propriety. It was meant as the one forum where by users who where wronged could have their say no matter how how dis-tasteful it was. You start mod'ing it heavily, it looses that.

Boston

6th wrote: »

That would solve 99% of the problem imo.

You realise a lot of you bull would have to go as well?

tallaght01

Boston wrote: »

tallaght01 : You have blatantly trolled in the past on this forum. That can be established if need be, so I don't consider that abusive in the least. But its beside the point. If a policy was put in place whereby a user who started an abusive thread on this forum was site banned or where a user was found to be less then truthful, regardless of merit, had their bans enforced in force, then I'd agree with chance.

You see, that's part of the problem.

Boston reckons I'm a troll. I would absoloutely refute that. But in his mind he thinks that automatically gives him the right to post what I would regard as personal abuse.

That's how feedback has worked. People felt they could abuse posters if they were stupid or they were trolls. But the benchmark for judging who was a troll or who was an idiot lay with the instigator of the abuse.

That's why i think karoma's idea is pretty good.