Feedback, how were you treated?

Crash

There needs to be a change in the feedback/helpdesk system, i'll copy and paste one of my numerous posts on the subject some day soon :P

PHB

I think this thread has highlighted one important issue on boards today. There should be more decimal places in the percantages for polls. It's shocking that it would report 0% when it's clearly not!

randylonghorn

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

tis true actually. Perhaps a new forum (god forbid) purely for bans and complaints?
Modded by an smod (modded now, not admin'd) with IMG tags turned off?

It might actually mean that the Feedback forum would become a feedback forum ...

WhiteWashMan

Hagar wrote: »

I'd support that idea. I think it would need several Smods/ all Smods as mods as it's possible the appeal could be against a ban by one of them. In that scenario the concerned Smod should act as if they were not a mod of that forum.

i dont know if you took me up wrong, but im not suggesting that smods become judge jury and executioner.

Im suggesting that smods 'mod' the forum, as any mod would mod a forum.
ie, no abuse, a fair hearing, etc etc etc.

Personally, i think Cmods need to make sure that any complaint about bans is dealt with and if there is no resolution there, then an admin needs to deal with.

Smods for me are still just mods over the whole site with the ability to ban. they are not there to act as admins or look at specific cases.
smod should stand for site mod, not super mod.

Boston

what happens when the forum is sodded evenly? Which btw no forum is. A forum like this one is a force of nature, it will come about regardless of what you try.

Hagar

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

i dont know if you took me up wrong, but im not suggesting that smods become judge jury and executioner.

Im suggesting that smods 'mod' the forum, as any mod would mod a forum.
ie, no abuse, a fair hearing, etc etc etc.

Personally, i think Cmods need to make sure that any complaint about bans is dealt with and if there is no resolution there, then an admin needs to deal with.

Smods for me are still just mods over the whole site with the ability to ban. they are not there to act as admins or look at specific cases.
smod should stand for site mod, not super mod.

I believe I understood you. I didn't expect the smods to pass judgement at all. I think that would always be the remit of the Admins.
At the moment the Admins both nominally mod the forum and can/do pass final judgement and since they were never involved in the original ban everybody sees them as neutral.
If the an SMod is actively modding the forum and was involved in the original ban it could further fuel the "fight the powah" sentiment. In that circumstance I was suggesting that that SMod took a temporary step back from modding that forum and left the modding to the other SMods to avoid any claims of biased modding. I would expect the involved SMod to be able to contribute to the thread in defence of the ban as would happen now.

6th

faceman wrote: »

some say bagging 6th for mod, is a bargain alert!

Bagging me for anything is a bargain!

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

tis true actually. Perhaps a new forum (god forbid) purely for bans and complaints?
Modded by an smod (modded now, not admin'd) with IMG tags turned off?

Support +1

Karl Hungus

Slutmonkey57b

Talliesin wrote: »

The purpose of the Feedback forum is for users to give suggestions as to how the site is run.

Many people however use it as if it were some sort of complaints forum.

This is because they are clearly being idiots.

Actually, it's because if you get an infraction/ban/whatever from a mod and you query it, they tell you to:

"Take it to Feedback."

So if someone does what the mod tells them to do, they are an idiot, are they?

The users aren't telling themselves to take it to feedback most of the time, the mods are.

But feel free to make abusive comments about people who are doing what they are told to do if they're not happy with a mod's behaviour. That really dispells the "Don't bother to post in feedback, the mods will just take the piss and dismiss your complaint anyway" point of view some people have developed.

_blank_

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Actually, it's because if you get an infraction/ban/whatever from a mod and you query it, they tell you to:

"Take it to Feedback."

So if someone does what the mod tells them to do, they are an idiot, are they?

The users aren't telling themselves to take it to feedback most of the time, the mods are.

But feel free to make abusive comments about people who are doing what they are told to do if they're not happy with a mod's behaviour. That really dispells the "Don't bother to post in feedback, the mods will just take the piss and dismiss your complaint anyway" point of view some people have developed.

I agree with this post.

Users do get told "take it to feedback".

Perhaps the mods who do that are idiots too

BossArky

DesF wrote: »

I agree with this post.

Users do get told "take it to feedback".

Perhaps the mods who do that are idiots too

Someone ban DesF for insulting mods in general.

DesF if you have a problem with this, please take it to feedback.

Genghiz Cohen

BossArky wrote: »

Someone ban DesF for insulting mods in general.

DesF if you have a problem with this, please take it to feedback.

Oh Des, you got owned....

_blank_

like, totally.

Hagar

6th wrote: »

Bagging me for anything is a bargain!

I've seen your avatar, double bagging FTW.

WhiteWashMan

DesF wrote: »

I agree with this post.

Users do get told "take it to feedback".

Perhaps the mods who do that are idiots too

I tell users to take any complaint about modding to feedback simply because its the only open forum of its ilk on which to have a discussion.

there is no point in the helpdesk, because you cannot have a discussion there.

thats the second time this week ive been called an idiot

Terry

I took a hint from another AH mod and would tell people to take it to feedback if they wanted a large audience, or the help desk if they wanted only smods or admins to reply to their complaint.
Most of them took it to feedback.

_blank_

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

I tell users to take any complaint about modding to feedback simply because its the only open forum of its ilk on which to have a discussion.

there is no point in the helpdesk, because you cannot have a discussion there.

thats the second time this week ive been called an idiot

I called nobody an idiot.

But for someone to suggest that users are idiots for taking complaints to Feedback, when some Moderators tell them to, is a bit silly.

If the users are idiots for taking things to feedback, then the mods who recommend them to do it must also be.

Terry wrote: »

Most of them took it to feedback.

Because they know there are other Fight Da Powah muppets who will chime in with the mod conspiracy bullshít, and make them feel better about their ranting.

seamus

DesF wrote: »

Because they know there are other Fight Da Powah muppets who will chime in with the mod conspiracy bullshít, and make them feel better about their ranting.

The point being though that when given the option of a civilised hearing of their grievance, they went for the fruitless rant. I take the same approach as Terry and couple of times they've gone to Help Desk but largely they go to Feedback.

_blank_

seamus wrote: »

The point being though that when given the option of a civilised hearing of their grievance, they went for the fruitless rant.

How many times have you seen "take it to feedback"?

How many times have you seen "take it to feedback or helpdesk"?

I haven't done any kind of comprehensive study or anything, but I would have a hunch that the former is the most common.

seamus wrote: »

I take the same approach as Terry and couple of times they've gone to Help Desk but largely they go to Feedback.

Good, and fairplay.

But some mods just go with the feedback thing.

Slutmonkey57b

seamus wrote: »

The point being though that when given the option of a civilised hearing of their grievance, they went for the fruitless rant. I take the same approach as Terry and couple of times they've gone to Help Desk but largely they go to Feedback.

Absolutely true, a lot of the threads you'll get will be muppets attempting to recind totally respectable bans. But the point is that if the "approved" course of action is "take it to feedback" and the most likely result of that is "mods taking the piss and ignoring you", what's the point of airing greivances about bans/mod decisions at all? How many threads on feedback are of the vein:

"I got banned for X by mod Y. Other muppet B did the same thing later and didn't get anything. Either ban him or unban me?"

followed by Mod Y posting
"Yeah I banned you, so what, get over it, you're a muppet."

Going on personal experience, I don't think I've ever seen a mod decision overturned after a thread on feedback or helpdesk. That's hardly definative, but it's stongly suggestive nonetheless, and as we all know appearances are more important than reality on the intarwebs. What's more interesting in fact is the number of threads where someone is banned for "personal abuse", only for the mods that banned them to personally abuse them in the feedback thread. There may not be an atom of justice in the ground-up dust of the universe, but there's not an atom of hypocrisy either, that doesn't mean that the two don't exist.

_blank_

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Going on personal experience, I don't think I've ever seen a mod decision overturned after a thread on feedback or helpdesk.

There are threads on Page 1 of this forum where a banee has been unbanned.

seamus

DesF wrote: »

But some mods just go with the feedback thing.

Well, with x00 volunteers it's kind of hard to enforce any kind of consensus. Also, I would imagine many mods don't even look at feedback and so don't see any issue with "take it to feedback".

These are the things which need addressing as boards continues to grow.

Slutmonkey57b

DesF wrote: »

There are threads on Page 1 of this forum where a banee has been unbanned.

Well, like I said, I was going on personal experience to date. I don't doubt that it has happened, my point was that there is a public assumption that either it doesn't happen, or that it's very unlikely. While it may be unlikely on the basis that the mods are 99% in the right, it shouldn't be on the basis that 99% of the time you're getting ignored and ridiculed instead of heard.

togster

Theres always 1% chance you won't get ridiculed.

Terry

Thinking back over all the bans I handed out, I think I only ever lifted one and that was because the person I banned pointed out, in a polite manner and via PM, that I was wrong.
I saw his point, admitted my mistake, lifted his ban and apologised.

I don't remember ever lifting a ban on someone who took the case to feedback. The reason being that they were usually the type of person who came across as aggressive, which I don't like and I don't think many others like it either.

Giving people grief will not get your ban lifted.
Politely explaining your position will get you somewhere. It may not get your ban lifted in all cases, but it goes a long way.

The mods do not want you to apologise or kiss their arses. A simple exp[lanation usually does the trick. Saying that you did not read the charter / didn't know that X offence was against the rules, will not get the ban lifted.

It's more the other users who are deserving of an apology.

If I ban you, it's not because you have pissed me off. It's because you have pissed other people off. I think this is what most other mods do too. Don't apologise to me. apologise to your peers.

That Amy chick from big brother is deadly.

Faith

Terry wrote: »

That Amy chick from big brother is deadly.

She's one of my flatmate's best friends!

/claim to fame...

Terry

Faith wrote: »

She's one of my flatmate's best friends!

/claim to fame...

I expect the phnoe number via PM any time now.
Thanks.

WhiteWashMan

DesF wrote: »

But some mods just go with the feedback thing.

im not entirely sure what the problem with that is?

_blank_

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

im not entirely sure what the problem with that is?

Because, another poster said users that post in Feedback are idiots for doing so, and not using Helpdesk instead.

When the mod that gave the ban directed the user to Feedback, it hardly seems fair to call the user an idiot for going where directed. They may have been unaware of Feedback previously, and Helpdesk.

WhiteWashMan

dunno, ive never called anyone an idiot for posting in feedback.
although, there have been many idiots who have posted in feedback.