Whats the point, what will it solve??

supermouse

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0121/limerick.html

This is on the news all day today!
Can anyone tell me what difference it will make? Surely, building new houses will do NOTHING to improve anti-social behaviour if the same people are going back into the houses?
Is this not just a waste of tax-payers money?

Dancor

I know what you mean, its like an old book with a new cover.

Karoma

They will need a certificate of eligibility to get a house, strict eviction orders will be enforced and their welfare payments will also be linked to their contracts of accommodation.

The authorities will be doing background checks and will be a little more careful re: who they put back in there. Read further into it.

Although, this sounds to me like they're just going to shift some of the more problematic gits to other areas and spread the problem around.

eve

I for one am very curious as to whether this approach will work. I guess it may be possible that by changing the layout or structure of the estates they may discourage anti-social behaviour. But it's a lot of money for something that may or may not work.

Kess73

Karoma wrote: »

The authorities will be doing background checks and will be a little more careful re: who they put back in there. Read further into it.

Although, this sounds to me like they're just going to shift some of the more problematic gits to other areas and spread the problem around.

The talk of background checks and more care as to who gets placed, is a line that gets spun each and everytime there is a batch of rehousing going on.


Your second paragraph hits the nail on the head, there have been a large number of properties purchased in certain areas around Limerick to take some of the more well known troublemakers out of their current areas. So on the southside, the estates of Ballinacurra Gardens, Ballinacurra Road, BallyKeefe, Kilteragh, The Forts, Glencairn, Raheen and parts of the Father Russell road can get used to the idea of known troublemakers being rehoused there, mostly from the Southill area.

The information on where properties have been bought has been available for some time.

Other estates in Castletroy, Monaleen, Anacotty, Corbally and Caherdavin will be used for the rehousing project involving Moyross.

bazz26

While I'm sure it is good news for the honest decent people of the relevent areas, my concern is what about the scum out there at the moment? Is the ground just going to open and swallow them up?

While rebuilding these areas is part of the solution, a number of houses in these areas were rebuilt previously only to end up in the same state by the same core element in these areas.

Not sure how this certificate of eligibility will work out either. If they are refused a house in these estates then where will they live? Won't they still be entitled to live somewhere though, just not in these particular outlined estates? So does this mean the same problem just get moved to another part of the city?

supermouse

Doesnt sound right to me - something doesnt add up! Like Kess73 said, the badness of Southill and Moyross are being taken out of their estates and put amongst other normally quiet areas. I live in County Limerick and we have one particular house on our road thats up for sale, and the council are interested in it for the rehousing scheme. We are BRICKING it to say the least!! Surely, these kinda people should be kept toegther to limit the destruction they cause!

Is this happening throughout the counry or only Limerick?? Im thinking of purchasing land to build a house in the near future, but if the likelyhood of a scumbag being your neighbour is high, i may change county!!!!

Sabre0001

Kess73 wrote: »

So on the southside, the estates of Ballinacurra Gardens, Ballinacurra Road, BallyKeefe, Kilteragh, The Forts, Glencairn, Raheen and parts of the Father Russell road can get used to the idea of known troublemakers being rehoused there, mostly from the Southill area.

I don't see this as a particularly good idea (especially sending them my way ). These areas have been declining in recent years and have become more troublesome...

Crescent S.C. is full of wanna-bes and troublemakers at weekends, McDonalds is not anywhere to go for a Happy Meal anymore and some of the nicer estates past Raheen (Ballycummin) already sufferred as a result of families moving in.

billy the squid

@boardsdotie and Kes73

I have temporarily removed your posts as they contained exact addresses. I am unsure if you are allowed to do this or not as they may be an invasion of the privacy of those living there, However, they may also be legally availible to the public.

I am querying this with the admins at the moment and ask that you do not repost the contents of that post until I get back to you on it.

Kes73, your post was removed as it quoted boardsdotie's post.

Just so you know where your posts have gone, ok.

Kess73

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I don't see this as a particularly good idea (especially sending them my way ). These areas have been declining in recent years and have become more troublesome...

Crescent S.C. is full of wanna-bes and troublemakers at weekends, McDonalds is not anywhere to go for a Happy Meal anymore and some of the nicer estates past Raheen (Ballycummin) already sufferred as a result of families moving in.

The Crescent S.C gets a silly amount of troublemakes from all over the city running through it, with no security to curb them. No point looking to the guys who work in the Shopping Centre as they are basically janitors and have no authority inside individual shops, plus they avoid the scumbags once they get into the main public sections.

Kess73

billy the squid wrote: »

@boardsdotie and Kes73

I have temporarily removed your posts as they contained exact addresses. I am unsure if you are allowed to do this or not as they may be an invasion of the privacy of those living there, However, they may also be legally availible to the public.

I am querying this with the admins at the moment and ask that you do not repost the contents of that post until I get back to you on it.

Kes73, your post was removed as it quoted boardsdotie's post.

Just so you know where your posts have gone, ok.

Sorry about that, did not even cross my mind that it could be a problem for the site.

I am pretty sure that it will be ok though as they are available as public record through the City authorities and County Council and can also be mailed by them to any individual who requests the info.

billy the squid

Kess73 wrote: »

Sorry about that, did not even cross my mind that it could be a problem for the site.

I am pretty sure that it will be ok though as they are available as public record through the City authorities and County Council and can also be mailed by them to any individual who requests the info.

That may be so, but there is also boards.ie policy which needs to be dealt with also which is why I have sought advice on it. I am not well versed on legal issues etc, so if in doubt, i tend to leave it out until I know more.

If they do OK the posts, it is just two clicks to restore them again anyway.

Placid Casual

Do people ever learn
a certain area of the inner city between michael street and Mungret street....i am sure ye know where i mean, was a kip, they knocked it, re built it, no5 5 years later its just a nicer looking kip. Still the same scum hanging around and still not a place anyone would wander into unless ure some drunk culchie falling out of TR's or MM's

mike65

Spread 'em thin and wide never works, these elements simply have virgin territory to host off, if anything the best thing to do would be to design and build a sort of maximum security estate (one way in/out) which they get to live in 'no questions asked' so to speak. Then they and thier associates can be watched and the tax authorities and CAB can get to work for the long term.

Mike.

RonMexico

This certificate of eligibility is the greatest PR job I've ever come across. The muppets that will be checking out these people are the same muppets who sold a council house to the family of the biggest underage thug on the Northside. He was stealing and burning out cars on a nightly basis and had racked up a huge amount of court visits yet the morons still sold the house to his family and now nobody can move the scum out of the neighbourhood. This plan is doomed to failure.

whatsgoinon

would this plan work, if the demolition crew were unaware that the inhabitants of said houses were still inside?

bugle

we have already seen what happens when they move this filth around limerick, as ive seen in castletroy/raheen already. they settle in a new area and get straight to work terrorising the new neighbourhood.you cant dilute this filth, what then happens is the kids that live on your street turn into these wannabe nackers, good areas will slowly turn into bad areas and all your left is an entire county with few nice spots.atleast now we know wheres good/bad. i 100% agree with mike65 on this idea of a "secure estate".leave them to it in their own back yard and spend the money monitoring and making crime hard for the scum.

Sierra Oscar

mike65 wrote: »

Spread 'em thin and wide never works, these elements simply have virgin territory to host off, if anything the best thing to do would be to design and build a sort of maximum security estate (one way in/out) which they get to live in 'no questions asked' so to speak. Then they and thier associates can be watched and the tax authorities and CAB can get to work for the long term.

Mike.

Aye - and make those estates easy for the Gardai to operate in. Put in CCTV cameras from the start, for example.

DarkJager

A better idea may be to put some sort of clause in these certificates of eligibility e.g if you get caught causing trouble and acting the scumbag while living in the estate, you get an automatic sentence of 2 years in Limerick Prison.

Lets see how many of these wannabe tough guys act the fool then...

brousuka

bugle wrote: »

we have already seen what happens when they move this filth around limerick, as ive seen in castletroy/raheen already. they settle in a new area and get straight to work terrorising the new neighbourhood.you cant dilute this filth, what then happens is the kids that live on your street turn into these wannabe nackers, good areas will slowly turn into bad areas and all your left is an entire county with few nice spots.atleast now we know wheres good/bad. i 100% agree with mike65 on this idea of a "secure estate".leave them to it in their own back yard and spend the money monitoring and making crime hard for the scum.

How galling this must be for, say, a couple who have lived most of their lives in what was a relatively nice, middle class area and worked their scrotes off to pay off their mortgage etc. and now look foreward to be terrorised by waster scumbags who are given a house for almost free by the council!! Put these tossers in a compound far away from decent tax paying citizens.

RonMexico

brousuka wrote: »

How galling this must be for, say, a couple who have lived most of their lives in what was a relatively nice, middle class area and worked their scrotes off to pay off their mortgage etc. and now look foreward to be terrorised by waster scumbags who are given a house for almost free by the council!! Put these tossers in a compound far away from decent tax paying citizens.

This reason why this country is going down the $hitter. The scumbags can do what they like, never lift a finger to do a days work and everything is handed to them. They terrorise everyone and if you try to fight back the law protects these vermin. In twenty years time this place is going to be hell.

Tea Leaf

Oh look. You know what? I am sick of this ****e in here. Blah, blah, whinge, whinge, they're getting more than me, moan, moan, this place is going to hell.

Get off your puny arses and do something about it then. I mean what are you lot made of? Marshmallow? Just a few of you here just sitting there pointing the finger and letting off a lot of hot air. Well if you took the time to pull the other ones out of your backside, maybe Limerick would stand a fighting chance. Honestly. It just annoys me now to read this weak carry on and the way you dehumanise people and then pick the high moral ground by not putting yourself in the same place.

As for creating a one entry/exit estate, you build a gaol you get a gaol mentality which will only make a bad thing worse. In addition, you group people together in the same anti-social environment and the movement only grows stronger. Integrating people into the community (spreading them out), not only reduces the stronghold certain elements build but also gives people a chance to develop a new identity - ie one away from their usual associates. You seem to assume that people don't want to change or experience a change. This is often just not true.

I am surprised to read that the *entire* Moyross estate is up for redevelopment. I would be even more surprised to see this come to fruition. But I think Fr Joe has it spot on. This is a policing issue as well as one concerning infrastructure as well. Limerick city is poorly planned in terms of housing placement and the police force is woefully under resourced for the type of crimes being experienced there.

gaf1983

Newton Emerson in today's Irish Times has written a Limerick several verses long about Limerick's regeneration:

Huge legal hole in this plan's very soul

Newton's Optic: Newton Emerson's Ode to the New Limerick

A PLAN FROM NANTUCKET

There is a town out in the west
With estates that are long past their best
The Government's retort
Is to print a report
And promise to strongly invest

The report is entitled "Our community"
Which is a word thrown around with impunity
Its original herald
Was one John Fitzgerald
Who said it was a great opportunity

The President ran the plan up the mast
And spoke of moving on from the past
In her rhetorical pretension
Bridges probably got a mention
But not the kind you stand under drinking Buckfast

The report's full proposals are polished
Everyone's house will be demolished
Then immediately rebuilt
And serviced to the hilt
While anti-social tenants are admonished

Severe penalties will be introduced
Welfare payments could well be reduced
New residents must swear
To behave while they're there
Or eviction might well be induced

But this is where a huge legal hole
Opens up in the plan's very soul
For whatever your crimes
In these sensitive times
Nobody can withhold your dole

In fact the more lawless the crew
The quicker their payments come through
They get their claim
"Society" gets the blame
And the neighbours are just left to stew

So how will this time around differ?
Through a promise of rules that are stiffer?
Will a "community contract"
Have any real impact
On a violent, gun-wielding coke-sniffer?

Talk of new legislation is muttered
Whenever this question is uttered
But Fianna Fáil
Is quite busy in the Dáil
With others who up must be buttered

Then there are the campaigning groups
Who insist that we jump through their hoops
They'll cry "social exclusion!"
And cause legal confusion
They don't care if they're criminal dupes

First will come mention of rights
Then the lawyers that such talk excites
Children will be invoked
And taxpayers will get soaked
As each case the miscreant fights

But the rights brigade never gives a toss
For good folk in a place like Moyross
Look after your kin
Try hard not to sin
And you'll just make the apologists cross

Instead they want special needs provision
A case worker for every decision
Try telling this shower
That they're just after power
And they'll treat you with total derision

There will be two new police stations
And training to halt altercations
But why should more cops
Pull out all the stops
When they'll face the same courtroom frustrations?

Anyway, where will they go
These people whom out we should throw?
Will they move next to you
And drink special brew
While you dream of a house in Arklow?

So let 3,000 homes slowly fail
Then replace them in every detail
But would we need to do it
And put everyone through it
If we just kept a few more in jail?
© 2008 The Irish Times

Raiser

Kess73 wrote: »

The talk of background checks and more care as to who gets placed, is a line that gets spun each and everytime there is a batch of rehousing going on.


Your second paragraph hits the nail on the head, there have been a large number of properties purchased in certain areas around Limerick to take some of the more well known troublemakers out of their current areas. So on the southside, the estates of Ballinacurra Gardens, Ballinacurra Road, BallyKeefe, Kilteragh, The Forts, Glencairn, Raheen and parts of the Father Russell road can get used to the idea of known troublemakers being rehoused there, mostly from the Southill area.

The information on where properties have been bought has been available for some time.

Other estates in Castletroy, Monaleen, Anacotty, Corbally and Caherdavin will be used for the rehousing project involving Moyross.

I think that having a positive mental attitude is key here; I mean just look at JP McManus - he has lots of horses roaming all around his estate every day and he loves the sight of them

Tea Leaf wrote:

Oh look. You know what? I am sick of this ****e in here. Blah, blah, whinge, whinge, they're getting more than me, moan, moan, this place is going to hell.

Get off your puny arses and do something about it then. I mean what are you lot made of? Marshmallow? Just a few of you here just sitting there pointing the finger and letting off a lot of hot air. Well if you took the time to pull the other ones out of your backside, maybe Limerick would stand a fighting chance. Honestly. It just annoys me now to read this weak carry on and the way you dehumanise people and then pick the high moral ground by not putting yourself in the same place.

As for creating a one entry/exit estate, you build a gaol you get a gaol mentality which will only make a bad thing worse. In addition, you group people together in the same anti-social environment and the movement only grows stronger. Integrating people into the community (spreading them out), not only reduces the stronghold certain elements build but also gives people a chance to develop a new identity - ie one away from their usual associates. You seem to assume that people don't want to change or experience a change. This is often just not true.

I am surprised to read that the *entire* Moyross estate is up for redevelopment. I would be even more surprised to see this come to fruition. But I think Fr Joe has it spot on. This is a policing issue as well as one concerning infrastructure as well. Limerick city is poorly planned in terms of housing placement and the police force is woefully under resourced for the type of crimes being experienced there.

Are you not living > 100 Kms away in a slightly different Hemisphere Tea Leaf

I might be wrong here, but you could hardly have any depth on insight here given that your opinion was formed from the dizzy heights of the Lim-rock open-top bus

iguana

I lived in Craeval Park in Moyross from 1982 - 1986, in the first 4 years that the estate was built. I was a kid at the time but according to my parents it was the best built house they ever lived in. It was well insulated and well laid out, built with good materials and a relatively attractive house. While not the biggest in the world it had a decent front garden, good sized livingroom, big kitchen/diner, and a reasonable back-garden. There is noway that 26 years after it was built these houses need to be knocked. It isn't the fault of well-built, average sized family homes that some horrible people were housed in them.

What is also infuriating is the proposal to knock Corpus Christi Primary school. This is also a well built school. The principal at the time the school was founded refused to accept second best when the school was being built and ensured a quality building with no prefab classrooms.