Wicklow 200

Chips Lovell

Bambaata wrote: »

I went for a ride up to Johnny Foxes 2 weeks back and did soem of the hills in that area (took a left at Foxes towards Enniskerry), is it those hills we're talking about or similar? Or worse?!!

The climbs around Johnny Foxes are steep enough but short. Climbs on the W200 are a good bit longer but the gradients are only sharp in certain sections. If you're getting out as far as Enniskerry your next step should be to tackle the Sally Gap from there and see how you do.

As blorg said, get out for longer rides and gradually push out the distances. It's important to build up that stamina. There's a big difference between tackling a long climb fresh to dealing with one with 100k+ already in your legs.

kenmc

take a right at foxes towards glencullen, then keep on going, that's the sally gap, the first of the climbs.
i'm in much the same boat as you, except I've been up over the gap twice. my longest is 75km so far, but am intending on getting up to 100 or 120 on flattish first to get the leg-distance up, then hitting the hills again...

Bambaata

yeah i really have to start clocking up distances. All i've dont so far are Duathlons and Triathlons. I have a friend who i can go with on these anyway. Going to put some plan down in relation to reaching distances over the comign weeks and i'll also take a spin up that route so i know what im gettign myself in for. I'm a terrible climber! I sit the whole way going up in the saddle so i'll ahve to get out of that. I only had a hybrid before that had some easy gears so i cud sit the whole way on climbs but the new trek doesnt allow for that!! I killed myself going up those hills two weeks ago siting in the saddle the whole way!

Chips Lovell

Bambaata wrote: »

I sit the whole way going up in the saddle so i'll ahve to get out of that.

Nothing wrong with that. Sitting is more energy efficient. You'd burn out much quicker standing all the way. Different people have different approaches, but I'd only stand around 10% of the time to shake the legs out and keep the pace up.

zorkmundsson

el tonto wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that. Sitting is more energy efficient. You'd burn out much quicker standing all the way. Different people have different approaches, but I'd only stand around 10% of the time to shake the legs out and keep the pace up.

That's interesting. i was wondering if sitting was a good idea, as the "urge" is to stand on climbs and so i suppose the fitter i get, the easier it'll be to sit throughout.
on a similar "tip", i'm currently commuting on a road-bike, using the big cog up front, because it's harder. this is mostly to make myself stronger, or so i think. a good idea?

Bambaata

el tonto wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that. Sitting is more energy efficient. You'd burn out much quicker standing all the way. Different people have different approaches, but I'd only stand around 10% of the time to shake the legs out and keep the pace up.

interesting... a friend recommended rotating between standing and sitting to use different muscles groups. he mentioned standing and putting the bike into a slightly harder gear so i wouldn't be too high on the rpm and to use my weight to lean down on the pedals more.

Chips Lovell

zorkmundsson wrote: »

on a similar "tip", i'm currently commuting on a road-bike, using the big cog up front, because it's harder. this is mostly to make myself stronger, or so i think. a good idea?

In theory yes. The usual advice to build up strength/speed is to do intervals, i.e. hammer all out, soft pedal to recover, then hammer again.

Bambaata wrote: »

interesting... a friend recommended rotating between standing and sitting to use different muscles groups. he mentioned standing and putting the bike into a slightly harder gear so i wouldn't be too high on the rpm and to use my weight to lean down on the pedals more.

Standing utilises more muscles, which means you're delivering more power and can keep the same cadence in a bigger gear. I'd usually shift up one or two when I get out of the saddle.

doozerie

zorkmundsson wrote: »

That's interesting. i was wondering if sitting was a good idea, as the "urge" is to stand on climbs and so i suppose the fitter i get, the easier it'll be to sit throughout.
on a similar "tip", i'm currently commuting on a road-bike, using the big cog up front, because it's harder. this is mostly to make myself stronger, or so i think. a good idea?

Whether riding the big (front) ring is a good idea depends on what you are trying to achieve and from what level of fitness. Riding lower gears, i.e. spinning your legs faster, helps develop more suppleness in your muscles and helps build stamina.

If your stamina is good, then developing strength is a useful next step (at a very simplistic level, greater strength gives you more power in bursts for sprinting, climbing, etc.), but you really do want good stamina if you are planning to tackle a lengthy ride so that should be your priority.

As for sitting or standing while climbing, some of that is down to personal style and your physique. For example, I am light and can climb comfortably for long stretches out of the saddle, whereas heavier cyclists tend to stay in the saddle for longer. Whether being out of the saddle is any less efficient depends a lot on circumstances at the time e.g. if you want to sprint away from someone on a climb then it is often more efficient to do so out of the saddle, or if the climb is really tough and you don't have the legs to push while in the saddle then riding out of the saddle is more efficient than toppling over.

zorkmundsson

thanks all. and i thought cycling was easy...

another question! what would be a reasonable time to expect to do the 200 in? i'm thinking somewhere sub 9'30"; this is my first go, and i have no frame of reference.

Raam

zorkmundsson wrote: »

thanks all. and i thought cycling was easy...

another question! what would be a reasonable time to expect to do the 200 in? i'm thinking somewhere sub 9'30"; this is my first go, and i have no frame of reference.

It's defo not easy


http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/mar08/parisnice08/index.php?id=/photos/2008/mar08/parisnice08/parisnice084/DV293301

9.30 would be a decent time, go for it man.

zorkmundsson

Raam wrote: »

It's defo not easy


9.30 would be a decent time, go for it man.

oh it's on.

snookie

el tonto wrote: »

In theory no. But it depends on the type of hybrid it is. Something with fat chunky tyres would slow you down and make it a much harder ride. Proper road tyres and I wouldn't see a problem.

Thanks. I've proper road tyres so that's ok. I've just signed up for the 200 and will start proper training this weekend. I've completed a couple of cycles up the mountains [to stocking lane, up to Glencree and back through cruagh, rathfarnham, through milltown and back to Sandymount] in the last ten days with little difficulty. What kind of figures should i be aiming to do in the next month to be in a position to have a proper chance of completing it?
Someone below mentioned 9 and a half hours as a reasonable time. is it realistic to aim for that also. I'm in my early 40s and reasonably fit from lots of walking, some cycling, swimming and basic workouts.

blorg

I did it last year having never done quite that distance before, never mind over the mountains. Max in one go prob would have been ~100k, although I did have one (mostly flat) 165k day the previous summer, broken up between before work, lunch and after work. Mostly I was doing those sort of spins around by Eniskerry and Glencree. I was cycling a fair bit though, just not necessarily all in one go. I wouldn't say I found it easy by any means but it was certainly more doable than I had expected. I cycled in to work as normal the next day without any difficulty and was back doing longish spins by the Wednesday.

I did it in 10 hours, with 8 hours cycling time. Might aim for a bit faster this year but that would likely involve less time hanging around the stops rather than a faster moving speed ;-)

I would imagine if you find those sort of spins to be "little difficulty" you will be fine. Best just try to get some longer ones under your belt for confidence.

The only thing that was really new to me was the idea of nutrition. I'd never bothered with eating on the bike before (I had ahem, reserves.) I didn't eat a whole lot on it and mostly just bars (with a ham sandwich at the first checkpoint) but I was concious of the need and set myself a schedule to replenish. I think I ate around 2000 calories worth of bars (around 15) plus the ham sandwich. I think this is on the low side mind. I also had some Lucozade mixed with my water.

I've probably only really bonked once, and it was after the W200, on a ~75-100k cycle on an empty stomach. I used to be able to do that with the ahem reserves but it doesn't work once they are gone. It is a real dramatic (and sudden) complete loss of energy and you find yourself just fighting to get home. Avoid!

doozerie

A useful rule of thumb is to aim to do be able to 75% of the full distance of any event, in advance. If you can do that, you should be able to do the full event on the day. Don't do that too close to (within a few days of) the actual event obviously 'cos you don't want to be knackered by the time the event comes round.

zorkmundsson

doozerie wrote: »

A useful rule of thumb is to aim to do be able to 75% of the full distance of any event, in advance. If you can do that, you should be able to do the full event on the day. Don't do that too close to (within a few days of) the actual event obviously 'cos you don't want to be knackered by the time the event comes round.

interesting. will bear in mind. will try and get a 150k cycle in some time in may, so.

oobydooby

I think there's a recommended training programme up online for the WW.
<edit> Link is below, you're not too far behind this schedule if you already have a decent base.

http://www.wicklow200.ie/2005/articles/?s=training

Freddy687

One thing not mentioned in the thread is to go with a group at the same level as you. Much easier when you are not on the front all day.
You will find you go a little faster for a little less energy.

TinyExplosions

Freddy687 wrote: »

One thing not mentioned in the thread is to go with a group at the same level as you. Much easier when you are not on the front all day.
You will find you go a little faster for a little less energy.

Cool... now to find a group of unfit W200 virgins who haven't had much preparation... anyone else out there

zorkmundsson

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Cool... now to find a group of unfit W200 virgins who haven't had much preparation... anyone else out there

we are many.

kenmc

doozerie wrote: »

A useful rule of thumb is to aim to do be able to 75% of the full distance of any event, in advance. If you can do that, you should be able to do the full event on the day. Don't do that too close to (within a few days of) the actual event obviously 'cos you don't want to be knackered by the time the event comes round.

Are you talking about 75% of the course-type terrain, or just 75% of the distance? Sorry to be pedantic, but 150kms on the flat is quite different to 150kms in the hills. Just want to get an idea of where I should be setting my sights over the next 2 months
Thanks
K

doozerie

kenmc wrote: »

Are you talking about 75% of the course-type terrain, or just 75% of the distance? Sorry to be pedantic, but 150kms on the flat is quite different to 150kms in the hills. Just want to get an idea of where I should be setting my sights over the next 2 months
Thanks
K

The same kind of terrain, ideally. So for the Wicklow 200, just make sure you throw a few challenging climbs in - you should be throwing climbs into your training runs anyway so just add some distance onto one of your training routes (or do a loop on a hilly section if you are short of climbs on your local routes).

If you have no challenging hills near enough to train on, then you could just add some extra miles to as hilly a route as you do have access to so that you do more than 75% of the Wicklow 200 distance. You are basically trying to check that your stamina is up to doing that kind of distance, and that physically you can handle being on the bike for that length of time.

kenmc

thats what i was afraid you'd say .
So basically I should be aiming to do say the sally and wicklow gaps in one run with a total distance of 150k or so - so maybe the first 2 climbs and head on home from blessington or something like that.
I bonked today after 75 km, sally gap and a hell of a headwind from the top down. But it's still about as far as I have done, but I'm happy with that - I stopped before I pushed myself too far and called in the lift But there's always tomorrow for some more miles..

doozerie

kenmc wrote: »

thats what i was afraid you'd say .
So basically I should be aiming to do say the sally and wicklow gaps in one run with a total distance of 150k or so - so maybe the first 2 climbs and head on home from blessington or something like that.

That would certainly make for a good training run as well as a good measure of how your preparation is going for the full distance. Bear in mind though that a target of 75% of the total distance it really is just a rule of thumb - the best gauge of how well you are going is yourself, so be careful not to start viewing 150km as a distance that you absolutely have to do at least once before the event. Depending on your physical state on any one day, and other factors such as the weather conditions, a 100km spin could be as demanding as, or even more demanding than, a 150km spin.

Determining your own form isn't always easy though, although it obviously gets easier over time. If you want some help then a heart rate monitor can help you measure how your body is coping and they are widely available these days for not much money (Lidl has them occasionally for about 20euro or so).

kenmc wrote:

I bonked today after 75 km, sally gap and a hell of a headwind from the top down. But it's still about as far as I have done, but I'm happy with that - I stopped before I pushed myself too far and called in the lift But there's always tomorrow for some more miles..

Fair play. Sally Gap is a good training route, and it is worth varying the route at times to approach it from each of its four different sides - that'll give you a variety of long-ish climbs of varying gradient to experience and also allows you to choose different routes to get to those climbs in the first place. For example:
- to approach Sally Gap from the north you can go via Killakee Road (long gradual climb) or via Enniskerry-Glencree (short sharp climb out of Enniskerry) or via Enniskerry-Back of Powerscourt waterfall (gradual climb);
- to approach it from the east you can go via Enniskerry-Sugar Loaf/Calary Hill (good climb) or via Enniskerry-Long Hill (long-ish climb with a tough sharp bit near the top of Long Hill);
- to approach it from the west you can go via Tallaght-Blessington Road (longish gradual climb) or via Firhouse-Bohernabreena Rd (steep-ish climb in places);
- to approach it from the south the only option is Laragh-Glenmacnass Waterfall (long climb, tough near the waterfall).

They are all good routes (and that is only some of them), which are challenging in different ways and so will contribute to your training in different ways too. Good luck with your training.

Limestone1

Could somebody who did this last year clarify the route out of Enniskerry. The website says it goes passed the entrance to Powerscourt waterfall and then up to Glencree turning a sharp left at the T-junction towards Sally Gap. Are they using Glencree to describe that whole area as to my mind that road doesn't go into Glencree i.e. it doesn't go by the German War memorial or the Reconciliation centre ?

Raam

This is it exactly...
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/3007152

Chips Lovell

Limestone1 wrote: »

Are they using Glencree to describe that whole area as to my mind that road doesn't go into Glencree i.e. it doesn't go by the German War memorial or the Reconciliation centre ?

Yes, they're using it to describe the area. Mind you Glencree proper is only a few hundred metres down to the right of this junction.

Limestone1

tks Guys - I just wanted to get the roads right as I plan to do it in advance in a few sections. Plus that hill out of Enniskerry towards Glencree kills me so I'm happy to avoid it

niceonetom

Limestone1 wrote: »

tthat hill out of Enniskerry towards Glencree kills me

i thought it was going that way too. i'm very glad it's not.

kenmc

^^ that the hill we did 2 saturdays ago Tom? Yeah it's a dirty one right enough. Went that way home last night, just cos.

TinyExplosions

The one I walked up

Thank god it's not going up there!