Game piracy killing PC gaming

L31mr0d

:rolleyes: sorry for the rather obvious title, lol.

Source: Shacknews: Infinity Ward Amazed by Rampant PC Piracy

Another good article, linked to in the previous one, although a little older:

Shacknews: Ritual's Mike Russell on Piracy

super_furry

It's why the PC is being dropped as the lead format now for so many titles. Unless it's an MMORPG, piracy will kill a game's sales. The thing is that PC gamers are usually very tech savvy and are easily able to find, download and install cracked and pirated games - much more so than console gamers. I think it may get to the stage where actually releasing a PC game becomes a liability for developers. As Russell said, the availability of a pirated PC version of a game will put people off buying the console version, if the sales they're losing across consoles because of this outweigh the meagre sales they're gaining on the PC, it may be that developers drop the PC altogether.

Grim.

But its soooooooooo easy

Azza

Sin Episodes: Emergence failed because it was a poor game not because of piracy and they know it. The concept of paying 30 quid per pop for a very average shooter 9 times was never going to work. Aside from which Ritual did not have the decency to go on to their own forums and tell their customers the project was canned.

Not saying piracy isn't a problem but game companies have to stop assuming every pirated game is a lost sale.

Again before heralding the end for the poor old PC yet again wait till we see last years retail and online sales figures. 2006 retail sales figures where up over 2005 for PC games. Also I'm sure the likes of AMD, Intel and Forbes company of the year 2007 Nvidia (who posted a billion dollar quater at the end of last year primarily on the strength of desktop graphics card sales.) all who have profitable product lines for gamers will just let the industry die off.

Also the PC's imagine as the cutting edge has been negated by the new consoles. But give it 12-18 months and the PC will have left these consoles in the the dust again in terms of graphics. That is until of course the next consoles come out catch up and the doom bells ring again.

dazftw

but you cant play downloaded games online?

my little rule is if I like it ill buy it! Same goes for movies and music.

thelordofcheese

Infinity ward were "amazed" by PC piracy levels? what rock have they been living under?

conzy

dazftw wrote: »

but you cant play downloaded games online?

my little rule is if I like it ill buy it! Same goes for movies and music.

Same here, I er download the "extended demo" If I like it I buy it...

More companies should distribute on steam, Local Games retailers rarely have PC games, and if they do its Sims2 on some bottom rack in the corner \o/

Copy Protection will always be broken... its just a matter of time before it happens and Developers / publishers need to give people a compelling reason to own the game such as good multiplayer / online functionality...

Also, why not require an online Serial check for offline games? 99% of PC owners have the internet and if not tough poo poo

Kiith

conzymaher wrote: »

Also, why not require an online Serial check for offline games? 99% of PC owners have the internet and if not tough poo poo

Because then people bitch and moan like ****ers, in the same way they did with Bioshock.

Krieg

Grim. wrote: »

But its soooooooooo easy

Have to agree there




Im very much against the CD-Key thing, I have a few games Id love to play again, but the cd-keys vanished. Very annoying to have a game that you have paid for and not be able to play it because you lost a slip of paper (I know I should be more careful with them).
But a few months back I got a GUID ban (Perma-Ban) from BF2142. I never hack or use any suspect software. Long story short, it seems that someone used my cd-key through a key generator and there were many others who suffered the same as me.
Made me realise that the developers are making me (the paying customer) a victim, more than the "pirates". Then I decided "**** you too" and I basically download the majority of my games now. (ESPECIALLY if its an EA game )
I used to follow the whole, "If I think its good, ill buy it", alas ive changed a bit. I still buy most big releases though.

Anyway, I think the developers need to find better ways to prevent piracy. I do feel bad for those who make fantastic games but end up bankrupt

yoyo

Kiith wrote: »

Because then people bitch and moan like ****ers, in the same way they did with Bioshock.

Hmm, I think he means a server side serial check if a player trys to play online, developers been doing it for years, the bioshock thing required mandatory serial activation, and was so screwed up only allowed 2 reinstalls at the time and your game cant be installed again without painfully scanning in receipts/manuals etc to 2k to get a new serial, thats why (and rightly so) people complained about bioshock

Nick

stevenmu

Even if the big corporations do decide to bail on PC gaming, people will still want to play games on their PCs, and people will still want to develop games on PCs and so there'll still be small companies and groups in garages/basements who'll create and release games, and make money on them. Just like they did before the corporations jumped in and decided to make gaming into an industry where the best way to compete is to spend huge 8 figure budgets spent on marketing, promotions, licenses, big name voice actors etc, and then just release the same old crap everybody released last year.

L31mr0d

the way I see it, game developers are only making things hard on the people who actually buy the game. If you download it you don't have to have the irritation of having to swap discs in and out depending on which game you want to play, all the extra security measures and the feeling of not getting your moneys worth when the game ends up being crap.

I think PC games are going to go the way of GRAW, Farcry and now BF2 in that they will have advertising incorporated into load screens and throughout the game itself to make the developers more money. The games themselves will be cheaper with the extra costs being covered by the advertisers.

That, or if they stop making PC games altogether the whole console chipping community will explode. People don't mod their consoles now because is EASIER to download games for the PC. But if forced to play on a console, the people who won't pay for their PC games aren't going to pay for their console games. Either highly efficient emulators will get developed or chipping will take off in a big way.

Genghiz Cohen

L31mr0d wrote: »

the way I see it, game developers are only making things hard on the people who actually buy the game. If you download it you don't have to have the
...
to pay for their console games. Either highly efficient emulators will get developed or chipping will take off in a big way.

Entire post gets a +1 from me.

L31mr0d

I've been thinking more about this and I don't actually think game companies will ever stop making games for PC, what I can see happening however is that the only games getting released for PC will be console ports.. and heres why

at the moment the majority of pirates use their pc to game for free, this leaves the console world relatively piracy free, meaning the game developers can develop games for the console and be more or less sure that people will have to buy it. If they choose to just stop releasing games for the PC they will see a flood of piracy onto the console, it will become more common place and developed and your average joe gamer will be able get his console games for free relatively easily. This will eventually drop their consoles sales the same way it has done for the PC.

I'm sure game developers are aware of this, so by releasing game ports for the pc it keeps the majority of PC pirates away from the console and keeps their sales figures up.

thelordofcheese

conzymaher wrote: »

Also, why not require an online Serial check for offline games? 99% of PC owners have the internet and if not tough poo poo

because it's a terrible idea, thats why.

bus77

I used to download a lot of games but then as I was driving across a bridge in Mafia I thought about the amount of work that must have went into making it.

I buy the good ones now. And download the crap ones.

User45701

super_furry wrote: »

It's why the PC is being dropped as the lead format now for so many titles. Unless it's an MMORPG, piracy will kill a game's sales. The thing is that PC gamers are usually very tech savvy and are easily able to find, download and install cracked and pirated games - much more so than console gamers. I think it may get to the stage where actually releasing a PC game becomes a liability for developers. As Russell said, the availability of a pirated PC version of a game will put people off buying the console version, if the sales they're losing across consoles because of this outweigh the meagre sales they're gaining on the PC, it may be that developers drop the PC altogether.

I always thought people liked pc versions because you in the past could get patches/updates/mods, im not into this 360/ps3 online stuff, seems FAR inferier to a pc with internet conenction to me. Anyway maybe you can get mods and patches on these new consoles but i dont give 2 ****s. PC is the way to go. I will download games but there is only 1 reason for that. If its a game i really want and its not a worldwide release. i had more of a right to play CnC 3 than the people who bought it in the US (bar the old gamers who would have also played all the CnC's.) But if they wont worldwide release i will download. I also bought it when it came out ofcoarse.

I think this is all easy to fix. Punish anyone who plays illigal copies of games, i know one mate, well not really i mate i would see the person once every few months. The ultimate ****ing lazy fat **** scab ect ect ect. Quite wealthy and does not buy ANY games/movies ect but has several TB's of games/anamie/movies. You should buy the good ones. There should be a fines for illigal copies (unless there is a really good reason, and it can be proven. Like you should be allowed download any new episodes of TV shows if you own the DVD's of the previous season or have pre-orders for the DVD (this is called intent to purchace. Also if you have something and its not yet legally released in your country but it is in others. This is also ok.))

I just think the ones who dont buy and just abuse the abality to downshould should have fines levied against them equilivent to 100 times the value of said product. Because they dont catch 1 in 10,000 so they must be made examples of. I only have 1 game on my pc that i dont own legally. For the simple reason that no high street store had stock when i was in town last saturday so i downloaded it. Seems fair enough to me.

MOH

L31mr0d wrote: »

the way I see it, game developers are only making things hard on the people who actually buy the game. If you download it you don't have to have the irritation of having to swap discs in and out depending on which game you want to play, all the extra security measures and the feeling of not getting your moneys worth when the game ends up being crap.

That's the problem. Bioschlock was a joke. Waited ages for it to come, had checked pretty much every online retailer to find the cheapest way to get it legally, then all the crap broke about the ridiculous security system. Went on holiday for a couple of weeks, figured they'd have sorted it by the time I got back, but the 2kgames forums were still full of people with problems, they hadn't brought out any of the fixes they had promised. Meanwhile the hack was out and anyone who hadn't paid for it was playing it with no problems, while lots people who'd paid good money for it couldn't play the game.
Damned if I'm going to give my money to a publisher who treats their customers like that.
The sad thing is that a lot of the time it's the developers who suffer - they probably have enough common sense to know that implementing a crazy copy protection system is going to be bad news, while the suits at the publishers have some looney idea pitched to them and decide to go with it.
Then when the crap hits the cooling device, it's the developers who get blamed as they're the ones more closely associated with the game.

L31mr0d

User45701 wrote: »

I just think the ones who dont buy and just abuse the abality to downshould should have fines levied against them equilivent to 100 times the value of said product. Because they dont catch 1 in 10,000 so they must be made examples of. I only have 1 game on my pc that i dont own legally. For the simple reason that no high street store had stock when i was in town last saturday so i downloaded it. Seems fair enough to me.

Yeah seems perfectly fair :rolleyes: if they followed your advice you'd be fined around €5000 for that 1 game you own illegally

B00MSTICK

Few options (maybe theyre already used?):

-Add padding: people arent likely to download 4GB+ games as much as a few hundred meg ones. once games come out on hddvd and bluray they can be 50gb+

-Flood torrent sites etc with different fakes and seed em like crazy. Name them like pirate groups such as deviance,reloaded etc do and leave tons of positive comments. When a real cracked version comes out make a fake using exact same name. leave negative comments and wrong serials etc on the pirate version.

-enforce internet connection for play

Beelzebub

I don't believe that piracy is killing PC Games.
I don't believe that piracy is killing the movie industry either.

thelordofcheese

B00MSTICK wrote: »

Few options (maybe theyre already used?):

-Add padding: people arent likely to download 4GB+ games as much as a few hundred meg ones. once games come out on hddvd and bluray they can be 50gb+

Terrible idea, it'll take roughly 3 days for people to figure out which content is unnecessary and strip it out. Also, is this data going to be copied across to with the install? People buying the game legitimatly won't be best pleased with having to sacrafice HDD space for no real reason.
Also, i think you underestimate exactly how much people will download.
by a magnitued of "a fcukload"

B00MSTICK wrote: »

-Flood torrent sites etc with different fakes and seed em like crazy. Name them like pirate groups such as deviance,reloaded etc do and leave tons of positive comments. When a real cracked version comes out make a fake using exact same name. leave negative comments and wrong serials etc on the pirate version.

PeerGuardian makes a fool of your idea.

B00MSTICK wrote: »

-enforce internet connection for play

Double terrible idea, there should never be a stiupulation of having an internet connection to play a single player offline game. It's wrong, i've payed for the product, i shouldn't be expected to have an internet connection too just so i can play what i've bought, doubly so when it's an offline game.

zilog_jones

Ha ha ha, oh wow. Every year is allegedly the end of PC gaming for some reason or other, and every year it's complete bollocks. PC game piracy is just as rampant as it ever was, if not less so now (in proportion to the amount of PC owners of course).

In the early '90s (when I first got a PC), the majority of games could be copied with one simple DOS command. Nowadays you need to get CD/DVD imaging software and download/create keygens and patches and whatever else - not exactly something a seven year old could do easily, as opposed to the former...

Blowfish

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Terrible idea, it'll take roughly 3 days for people to figure out which content is unnecessary and strip it out.

It doesn't have to be unnecessary content. Uncompressed textures take up ridiculous amounts of space.

Saruman

Blowfish wrote: »

It doesn't have to be unnecessary content. Uncompressed textures take up ridiculous amounts of space.

Then whats the point? Think about it.. if a texture is uncompressed then all they have to do is compress the files (which they will anyway) and its only when uncompressed that you will see the true size.

I think online server checks or something like steam is the only way to truly get past it, it may be unfair to the people who buy games but its the way of the world. The innocent suffer etc..

Gurgle

conzymaher wrote: »

Same here, I er download the "extended demo" If I like it I buy it...

Me too, avoids the all too common situation where you read 'excellent' reviews for a game, spend €50 - €70 on it and find it horrible to play.

super_furry

Gurgle wrote: »

Me too, avoids the all too common situation where you read 'excellent' reviews for a game, spend €50 - €70 on it and find it horrible to play.

What PC game is €50 to €70? Whatever way you dress it up, piracy is piracy.

Cardinal

Most new PC games are €50 or so.

I wouldn't bother wasting my time thinking up ways to combat piracy. Whatever anyone manages to come up with will inconvenience the paying user, and pirates will find a way around it anyway, so you end up with a situation that's better for no one. Piracy of PC games is just something that has to be accepted.

You have to ask yourself how many of the people pirating the game would actually buy it if they couldn't get it for free. While some of them may, not all of them would so it's unrealistic to look at the number of pirates and say "this is how much we are losing due to piracy".

I'm not trying to defend piracy, it is an indefensible position. But I think companies would have better results combatting it by exploring alternative payment and delivery models than trying to lock the pirates out.

Blowfish

Saruman wrote: »

Then whats the point? Think about it.. if a texture is uncompressed then all they have to do is compress the files (which they will anyway) and its only when uncompressed that you will see the true size.

It's different forms of compression. Compression for a specific format (i.e. for textures) is far more efficient than general compression (i.e. RAR).

L31mr0d

super_furry wrote: »

Whatever way you dress it up, piracy is piracy.

and the award for the most blatantly obvious comment goes to....

Cardinal wrote: »

You have to ask yourself how many of the people pirating the game would actually buy it if they couldn't get it for free. While some of them may, not all of them would so it's unrealistic to look at the number of pirates and say "this is how much we are losing due to piracy".

This is very true. Games I download the "extended demo" of i'd never buy. It's more a curiousity to see what the graphics look like, how the game runs on my pc and see if there have been any innovations in the gameplay. Before PC piracy became huge I was primarily a console gamer and i'd only buy one I was GUARANTEED good replayability like beat em ups, race games, simple platformers. On the PC i'm more interested in the PC building and overclocking.

The ONLY way I can see them curbing this trend of piracy is creating a cheap service that makes it easier to download games but makes the developers money. If there was a service where I could pay around €10 a month and download games from T1 servers with no caps and with no need to have a cd in the drive I would. I'd even accept if this games where altered like the free versions of FarCry and GRAW to have ads during load times. Heck I wouldn't even mind if games started using actually brands within the game. Like a soldier drinking coca cola, or civies driving nissans as long as they didn't make it camp and obvious like in the Truman show, like a soldier saying something like "Ah, do you want a cool, crisp, refreshing can of coca cola" or a civie saying "OMFG!!! ALIENS ARE INVADING, OH AND DID YOU KNOW MY NISSAN GETS 40 MILES TO THE GALLON... NOW RUUUUUNNNNN!!!!"

PeakOutput

Beelzebub wrote: »

I don't believe that piracy is killing PC Games.
I don't believe that piracy is killing the movie industry either.

the death of both those industries is not inevitable but unless major changes take place in both industries they are on a slippery slope to non existence. it wont happen this year or next year but imo it will take 15-20 years at the current rate.

the simple fact of the matter is that if you download copyrighted material for free you are stealing money from someones pocket. you can say that they are big corporations that dont care about me so i dont care about them and it will have no difference to them but thats bollox tbh and your fairly naieve about the real world if you believe that. these corperations are,generally, owned by shareholders who diretly lose out if the profits drop. these same corperations directly employ hundreds of thousands of people whose jobs are put at stake if the profits drop. that is simple fact.

there are basically 2 ways to make money in this world. manufacture a product and sell it or advertise something that someone else is manufacturing to help them sell it.

I have no particular problem with people downloading as long as they understand the consequences and its stupid statements like iv quoted that annoy me. the computer game industry will not survive if the majority of or a significant portion of its target audience continues to steal its product. that is a guarantee. now the solutions to the problem are many but in its current guise its simply wont survive.

i dont particularly care about the computer game industry at the moment but i do care about the film and music industry and they are also on rocky roads at the moment due to piracy.