Democrats Debate tonight...

Tommy T

You can view it live on www.cnn.com at 1am. It's coming from South Carloina where Ob is slight favourite to take the vote with a late surge in Balck voters to his cause but with today markng the birth of MLK is could be an interesting debate to see who xcan claim his legacy the most...

zuchum

Edwards coming out best so far IMO...

Tommy T

It was a great debate with all candidates scoring big at different times. It's a shame Edwards is up against these two heavyweights but I do hope he gets the VP post on the winning ticket.

Barak was hit with some big ones and found it uncomfortable. Well thats chicken feed when compared to the incoming he's going to receive from the Reps if he wins the nomination.

Hillary was coolness personified...

Manic Moran

Coolness personified or not, I wouldn't have minded had she directed her remarks more towards policy positions as opposed to attacking Obama. Edwards definitely looked the more responsible of the three. Much as she was correct in pointing out to Obama that you can't just vote 'Present' as President, it is also to be pointed out that you can't just attack a person as President, you need to have a policy.

NTM

Tommy T

The real killer for Barak was his crazy support for Reagan a few days before. I saw the interview on NBC and you couldn't but take from it that he'd admired greatly his presidency.

To see him backtracking last night showed how much he really has to learn and he's far from ready to take on the Reps...

moe_sizlak

Tommy T wrote: »

The real killer for Barak was his crazy support for Reagan a few days before. I saw the interview on NBC and you couldn't but take from it that he'd admired greatly his presidency.

To see him backtracking last night showed how much he really has to learn and he's far from ready to take on the Reps...

he was playing to the independants with the regan comments

ronald regan was hugely popular as a president and was someone who drew votes across the divide

Tommy T

It was the dumbest move in this campaign by either Rep or Dem. If you want to win the Democratic nomination you don't go around praising Ronnie. That stupidity and compounding it by trying to say he wasn't praising him has just lost him California.. His only real hope of challenging Hillary...:D

Manic Moran

Tommy T wrote: »

It was the dumbest move in this campaign by either Rep or Dem. If you want to win the Democratic nomination you don't go around praising Ronnie. That stupidity and compounding it by trying to say he wasn't praising him has just lost him California.. His only real hope of challenging Hillary...:D

I wouldn't be so sure. There are a lot of independent voters in California, and they will not be partaking in the Republican primary, as it's not open. They can, however, partake in the Democratic one, and looking to replicate Ronnie's ability to have cross-appeal even without agreeing with his specific policies is a tactic which can stand him in good stead. This is a Democratic state with a very popular Republican governor who is successful because he does exactly what Obama is claiming to emulate. Californians like compromise. Hillary's campaign is focused on the Party Faithful, not on mass appeal. Watch the Independents vote Obama or Edwards.

NTM

Tommy T

But did he really think the best or only way to attract Indies was to praise Reagan hence isolating himself from a huge number of possible Dem voters?

Did he or his advisors not know Hillary would get stuck into him over it?

Watching him backtrack in the debate was not a pretty sight...

Manic Moran

Honestly, I don't see any problem in his saying that "Reagan showed that cross-party negotiation can work", because it's an accurate statement. And he did get a counterblow in when he pointed out that Hillary's comments were far more praising of Reagan in Brokaw's book.

In the last debate, Hillary was all "I'll fight the Republicans this way" and "I'll fight the Republicans that way", whilst Obama's saying "I'll work with the Republicans this way." If you're a strategic Democratic voter who wants to make sure it's a D in the White House, which of the two philosophies do you think is more likely to win the Presidential election?

NTM

Tommy T

Hillary by a long way as Barack is showing he's weak at the knees when she starts digging. If the republicans get their hands on him he's dead in the water.

Hillary is the only one tough enough to take on the Reps and win...

metrovelvet

Manic Moran wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure. There are a lot of independent voters in California, and they will not be partaking in the Republican primary, as it's not open. They can, however, partake in the Democratic one, and looking to replicate Ronnie's ability to have cross-appeal even without agreeing with his specific policies is a tactic which can stand him in good stead. This is a Democratic state with a very popular Republican governor who is successful because he does exactly what Obama is claiming to emulate. Californians like compromise. Hillary's campaign is focused on the Party Faithful, not on mass appeal. Watch the Independents vote Obama or Edwards.

NTM

Independants can partake in the democratic primaries?

Manic Moran

metrovelvet wrote: »

Independants can partake in the democratic primaries?

In California, yes.

The rules vary by State, and within the State by different parties. California is a semi-closed state, and two parties, American Independent and Democratic, have decided to allow independents to partake in their primaries. 20% of voters in California are 'Decline to State' on party affiliation, making it quite a sizeable chunk of voters. Without the option to vote in the Republican primary, this large block will gravitate heavily to dilute the Democratic results, to the benefit of whichever candidate can best attract independents.

Note that just because the California Republicans do not permit independents to vote in their primary does not meann that State Republican parties in other states have the same policy, ditto Democrats. Sometimes also, the Parties have no choice in the matter: Virginia's Primary is fully open for all parties by law, for example, so there's nothing to stop 'raiding' (Cross-voting for the opposing candidate you think you can beat more easily)

NTM

metrovelvet

Where can you find out if your state allows you to vote in the primaries? Can you potentially vote in both Republican and Democratic primaries as a registered Independent?

Manic Moran

metrovelvet wrote: »

Where can you find out if your state allows you to vote in the primaries? Can you potentially vote in both Republican and Democratic primaries as a registered Independent?

I presume the website of whatever department runs voting in your State would have it. When I got my sample ballot in the mail, the guide book had in big writing on the back cover that D and AI parties allowed independents to vote.

I can't answer the last question. My immediate thought is 'no' and am aware offhand of no State which permits it.

NTM

banquo

Looking forward to tonight. One of two things will avail, imo:

a) An almighty smackdown, only finished when Obama actually lifts hillary over his head and, screaming "I am the alpha male!", throws her at Wolf Blitzer; hurls faeces at detractors in the audience.

or

b) They've agreed on the outcome and they'll show strength in unity tonight.

For the sake of good TV I really hope it's a).

storka

banquo wrote: »

Looking forward to tonight. One of two things will avail, imo:

a) An almighty smackdown, only finished when Obama actually lifts hillary over his head and, screaming "I am the alpha male!", throws her at Wolf Blitzer; hurls faeces at detractors in the audience.

or

b) They've agreed on the outcome and they'll show strength in unity tonight.

For the sake of good TV I really hope it's a).

Anyone know if it can be watched online?!

Manic Moran

I'll be amazed if CNN doesn't have a live stream.

NTM

ghostdancer

stream:
mms://a466.l3760651364.c37606.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/466/37606/v0001/reflector:51364

can be reached through the CNN/LA Times websites.

banquo

It's a bit lacklustre. Looks like option b); they're in cahoots!

ghostdancer

it was a bit boring alright. both did quite well. overall i would say Obama just about won. he was consistently strong in his answers, whereas some of her's were a bit iffy, and her defending of her Iraq vote was a bit of a mess. her plug at the end was cringeworthy.

i thought wolf's question about "not being able to control your husband" was a bit low....

having said that, overall, the questions were a bit daft. Obama/Clinton Clinton/Obama? yeah, thanks for that CNN. :rolleyes:

banquo

I agree, mostly. Obama was more consistent in his answers, but hillary came across the stronger persona, if that makes any sense. It's all subjective.

I guess anyone [me] hoping for a smackdown was dissapointed.

Obama ftw. After ron paul, of course.

whatawaster

I thought it was very even. I thought Obama struggled a little at the start, but came on really strong at the end. Hillary, in contrast, started well, but was really fudgy on the Iraq issue. Why can't she just admit she made a mistake, instead of trying to defend herself in roundabout ways?

moe_sizlak

watched it the replay on cnn international this morning
prettyeven but i thought hillary came across as more mature and seasoned
obama , inteligent ,articulate but perhaps overly enthusiastic
hillary looked like the older wiser one

banquo

moe_sizlak wrote: »

watched it the replay on cnn international this morning
prettyeven but i thought hillary came across as more mature and seasoned
obama , inteligent ,articulate but perhaps overly enthusiastic
hillary looked like the older wiser one

yes, definitely. I'm an obama fan but I still feel that hillary came across better, yet I'm struggling to articulate why.

Jesus Wept

What a love in that debate was.