Against All Odds Thread

Machismo Fan

http://www.tnawrestling.com/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,52/

Its shaping up to be quite a good PPV add Abyss and Mesias in a barbed wire massacre and it should be good.

Bubs101

Far too early for a thread considering there wasn't even one for the last PPV (which I thought was good) but I can see why you're looking forward to it. I'm pretty certain there will be a title change in the main event with A.J. messing it up for Angle intentionally or on purpose. Also want to see what they'll do with Tomko as they're pushing him as a singles competitor now and they want to give him a massive push so I wouldn't be surprised to see him go over a big name who's past it (ideally Sting or Rhyno but I've no idea where they are so it'll probably be Senshi)

Fozzy

I've heard that the ticket sales have been quite poor for this show. It's in a 14,000 seater arena too, it'll be interesting to see how any they end up getting

It's got plenty of potential as always. If there's a non-bull**** finish to the main event then I'm sure it'll be a great match. The stipulation deal for the X-Division title doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

Far too early for a thread considering there wasn't even one for the last PPV (which I thought was good) but I can see why you're looking forward to it. I'm pretty certain there will be a title change in the main event with A.J. messing it up for Angle intentionally or on purpose. Also want to see what they'll do with Tomko as they're pushing him as a singles competitor now and they want to give him a massive push so I wouldn't be surprised to see him go over a big name who's past it (ideally Sting or Rhyno but I've no idea where they are so it'll probably be Senshi)

Hmm...I can't see Angle losing. There's been word going round that Joe is being built up to be the next champ, and that would back up Angle retaining too. Senshi's finished with the company now, he's wrestling for New Japan the days before and after this PPV. Sting coming back and losing to Tomko would be a surprise to me. Are you sure they won't just stick him in a tag match with AJ?

Bubs101

Fozzy wrote: »

It's got plenty of potential as always. If there's a non-bull**** finish to the main event then I'm sure it'll be a great match. The stipulation deal for the X-Division title doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me

I think the stipulation is a way for the Dudleys to leave TNA as I doubt they'll abolish the X-division. Can't remember who but someone said here they were looking to leave

Bubs101

Fozzy wrote: »

Hmm...I can't see Angle losing. There's been word going round that Joe is being built up to be the next champ, and that would back up Angle retaining too. Senshi's finished with the company now, he's wrestling for New Japan the days before and after this PPV. Sting coming back and losing to Tomko would be a surprise to me. Are you sure they won't just stick him in a tag match with AJ?

I didn't mean Sting as much as Rhyno but I haven't seen them on T.V. in a while but I don't think there will be a tag match for the titles. The MCMG are already involved as are the Dudleys so that only leaves LAX who were chilling with Sharkboy last Impact which would mean a squash match. Also, I think considering how involved A.J. is in the title picture I think it would take away from that to have him in a tag match, unless they team Joe with Nash or Morgan or something and have the focus on Joe rather than Tomko and A.J. again.

The reason I think there'll be a title change is for one, Kurt is very very stale as champ and it makes sense. Secondly, Christian is playing a bit of a tweener at the moment so I wouldn't be surprised to see him cheat Angle for it, for Tomko to get involved or for A.J. to switch sides but I do think it's the best chance of a title change in a while in TNA.

Also, regarding the womens title, is that it for Kong vs. Kim?

Fozzy

I think Kim is injured at the moment, but I could be wrong

I doubt Team 3D will be leaving, I think they'll just lose the match and then do a month or two of silly skits where they try to make weight for the X-Division, even though they don't like the thing. Could the Machine Guns not have come up with a better stipulation?!

Fozzy

The Abyss vs Judas Messias match is actually being taped tomorrow for the PPV. The athletic commission of whatever state they're in on Sunday wouldn't give them permission to use barbed wire so they decided to just tape the match

Machismo Fan

Fozzy wrote: »

I've heard that the ticket sales have been quite poor for this show. It's in a 14,000 seater arena too, it'll be interesting to see how any they end up getting

It's got plenty of potential as always. If there's a non-bull**** finish to the main event then I'm sure it'll be a great match. The stipulation deal for the X-Division title doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me

They probably won't fill the arena. Apparently Lockdown was doing poor ticket sales and that has TNA highest attended event in their history with 6000 people and bear in mind that the PPV is still 3 weeks away.

I was under the impression that the X-Division would have a weight limit instead of Team 3D having a weight limit.

At least the X-Title situation is sorted out. Johnny Devine- New Champ

john concannon

Fozzy wrote: »

The Abyss vs Judas Messias match is actually being taped tomorrow for the PPV. The athletic commission of whatever state they're in on Sunday wouldn't give them permission to use barbed wire so they decided to just tape the match

I wonder how they might try to explain that on the ppv?

fatal

john concannon wrote: »

I wonder how they might try to explain that on the ppv?

They won't.DW will say "YOUVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!" like its happening right in front of his very eyes

Machismo Fan

john concannon wrote: »

I wonder how they might try to explain that on the ppv?

They will probably say "This match is so violent that they won't allow us to do it in South Carolina". Free marketing.

michael.etc...

I think Gail Kim suffered a broken rib, or something like that in her match with Kong.

It'll be pretty funny if they do shill that barbed wire match as if it's live.

In all honesty, it looks like an absolutely awful PPV in my book.

Fozzy

michael.etc... wrote: »

I think Gail Kim suffered a broken rib, or something like that in her match with Kong.

I've heard since that she ruptured an implant, for the second or third time

michael.etc...

Oh yeah. That's what it was.

Not a broken rib at all then really...

Machismo Fan

michael.etc... wrote: »

In all honesty, it looks like an absolutely awful PPV in my book.

Why? I think its shaping up to be quite a good PPV.

michael.etc...

^^^

Angle/Christian (again) doesn't interest me much, although i do think it will be a good match. But not enough to sell the PPV alone.

I don't like ODB's gimmick, which dampens my enthusiasm for the women's match, but i do love Kong.

Elsewhere, I'm not impressed by the use of the x-division guys, and I really don't look forward to seeing the useless BG James/Armstrong tag match, neither of whom i think should be even on tv.

Plus, i've seen enough barbed wire matches to last a lifetime, and i don't think including one here is appropriate use of the gimmick . IMO, it should be reserved for a much more significant, major, main-event worthy feud, that has had to reach that point. it doesn't feel important.

And there's really nothing else there that interests me much. TNA's just like that for me, sometimes one or two matches are appealing enough to make it worthwhile, but not yet with this one.

Machismo Fan

What do you mean save the barbed wire match? Its Abyss' specialty and this should(and hopefully will be) the end of the long running Abyss/Mitchell feud.
If the match between 3D and Dutt/Lethal on iMPACT! a few weeks ago is anything to go by, the 6 Man Street Fight should be good.

Fair enough Armstrong is 68 and BG is well past his prime but Styles and Tomko can carry anyone to a passable match. ODB is super over and Kong is a tremendous monster heel- It should be good.

Roode and Booker have had a good feud and it should be a very good match and Storm and Young had a good match last time and I don't see why this should be any different.

Angle and Christian should be a good match and I'm interested to see which way it will go.

michael.etc...

I really don't think Styles and tomko can carry "anyone" to a passeable match. and even if the match does end up as such, that certainly isn't much to recommend.

Kong/OBD im sure will be good, but again, along with the main event, it doesnt sell the ppv for me.

Just because the mitchell/abyss feud has been running for ages, doesnt make it good, or important. I think it's came across as ridiculous, hammy, and overstuffed with gimmicks. My problem with the barbed wire gimmick, is that the participants involved havent actually had a huge long term rivalry that has warranted it. I know barbed wire matches are often thrown out there, but they shouldnt be. To me, this feels like its attached to the match to underline the fact that its a feud-ender, and doesnt feel like a natural developent. a good example of when it did appeal to me, was Corino/Homicide, in ROH a few years ago.

Take out BG,Bob, the dudleys, young,abyss and co, and shove in some of the x-guys, and it may appeal to me a little more.

Machismo Fan

The X-Division does not sell PPV's, fair enough their stuff is awesome but an entire card of X-Division matches may be the best wrestling show of all time but it does not appeal to the masses. 3D get a lot of stick which they don't deserve. They may be fat and aging but they can still put on a good match and are two of the best heels in the business. Whats wrong with Eric Young, the man is a very good wrestler.

The Abyss/Mesias match should be good. Would Angle/Christian work in Barbed Wire Massacre, I don't think so. Its the end of Abyss/Mitchell. The feud has ran for far too long and this is the big culmination.

Fozzy

Machismo Fan wrote: »

The X-Division does not sell PPV's, fair enough their stuff is awesome but an entire card of X-Division matches may be the best wrestling show of all time but it does not appeal to the masses.

And what TNA is doing does?! If they made the X-Division guys look important then those guys could sell PPVs. What I saw on Impact this week was the X-Division champ drop his comedy gimmick and start acting serious, and immediately he lost his title. Then the new champ got beaten up. It's not as if that sort of thing isn't avoidable

I'm not sure that the Abyss/Mitchell feud will be over now, it seems like it's just getting started in a way. It's only just been revealed that Mitchell is his father, so they'll probably run with that for a few months

Machismo Fan

But if you only concentrated on the X-Division TNA would fall flat on its face. They would lose more money than they already are. Fair enough they should treat it with a little more respect as it does bring a lot to the table, but it does not fill the table.

The Abyss/Mitchell feud has been running a long, long time. The massive gimmick match should end it. Though it probably will continue.

Vince135792003

There's no doubt that when Joe had the X belt and was feuding with Styles and Daniels that it was drawing more than anything else on the card.


The X division was TNA's calling card. It made them different from WWE. Then one day TNA decided that they'd trade it in for some Kevin Nash comedy skits. And they were funny sometimes but they were shooting themselves in the foot.

Machismo Fan

Ahh, but Joe and Styles are the exceptions they moved on to the heavyweight division because they became too big for the X-Division. Daniels did move out but ultimately failed. The X-Division is the breading ground for potential heavyweights. The X-Division is awesome, don't get me wrong but it is not the solution to all TNA's problems as some people think it is.

Vince135792003

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Ahh, but Joe and Styles are the exceptions they moved on to the heavyweight division because they became too big for the X-Division. Daniels did move out but ultimately failed. The X-Division is the breading ground for potential heavyweights. The X-Division is awesome, don't get me wrong but it is not the solution to all TNA's problems as some people think it is.

It's a breathing ground for nothing more than nonsense if they don't treat the division seriously.

Fozzy

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Ahh, but Joe and Styles are the exceptions they moved on to the heavyweight division because they became too big for the X-Division. Daniels did move out but ultimately failed. The X-Division is the breading ground for potential heavyweights. The X-Division is awesome, don't get me wrong but it is not the solution to all TNA's problems as some people think it is.

Styles had already been a 2 or 3 time heavyweight champion before he was feuding with Joe in the X-Division. He didn't become too big for it, TNA just decided to stop taking it seriously. Daniels didn't fail through any fault of his own, booking him in a serious feud with Sting and then having him lose clean in less than 5 minutes on PPV made him look like a fool

I don't get what you mean about the X-Division being the breeding ground for potential heavyweights. Are you suggesting that Lethal, Devine and the likes are going to put on weight in a few years and be pushed to the main event?

Bubs101

I think TNA didn't think that the X-division would have advanced the company forward and that no matter how good it was it would never be good enough to supercede the NWA/TNA title so they focused on their heavyweights. I think they were right as well. There's no way people would have chosen Styles vs. Daniels main event over a Cena HHH match but there are certainly some who'd watch Angle Sting over it. As a long term strategy I think it's sound

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

There's no way people would have chosen Styles vs. Daniels main event over a Cena HHH match but there are certainly some who'd watch Angle Sting over it.

TNA did 35,000 buys with Joe vs AJ a little over two years ago as the semi-main event of Turning Point. Jarrett vs Rhino was the main event, but I remember the build for Joe and AJ being much better, Joe was the most popular guy in the company back then. Angle vs Sting at a PPV last year did 36,000 buys with a larger weekly audience

I think you're underestimating how over Joe, AJ, Daniels and the X-Division were a couple of years ago

Bubs101

Fozzy wrote: »

I think you're underestimating how over Joe, AJ, Daniels and the X-Division were a couple of years ago

I'm not saying that they weren't over but TNA clearly have big big plans and I don't think that they thought that Joe, AJ and Daniels would bring them to the next level so they brought in stars for their heavyweight division with bigger star power like Sting and Angle and thus had to put the spotlight on them and the mantle on them to take the company forward

Machismo Fan

TNA saw how Joe and Styles were such good stars and moved them to the heavyweight division. They both will have been World Champ by the end of 2009. They are just that damn good.

michael.etc...

Machismo Fan wrote: »

The X-Division does not sell PPV's, fair enough their stuff is awesome but an entire card of X-Division matches may be the best wrestling show of all time but it does not appeal to the masses. 3D get a lot of stick which they don't deserve. They may be fat and aging but they can still put on a good match and are two of the best heels in the business. Whats wrong with Eric Young, the man is a very good wrestler.

The Abyss/Mesias match should be good. Would Angle/Christian work in Barbed Wire Massacre, I don't think so. Its the end of Abyss/Mitchell. The feud has ran for far too long and this is the big culmination.

I don't think you're really listening to what i've said. I did not say an entire card of X-division matches would draw the masses, or should. i didn't even say i'd like to see that. But treating them like jobbers and novelty acts does decrease their value. the x-division shouldn't be a feeder division for the world title either, it should be a seperate entity, that could prove attractive to people if promoted correctly, as it offers an alternative to the WWE. It's not like the others guys are drawing either. a look at tna's buyrates shows that typically they remain static, with only angle/joe main events making any kind of minor blip. TNA needs to have a better balance, and eliminate people like BG James. You can defend him on the basis of "Name value" all day long, but sadly that value is entirely tarnished by his WWE-reject status. he's not Christian, Booker, or Angle. He didn't leave WWE hot, or underutilised in the eyes of fans. He left as a past-it act, who hadn't been properly over in years.

I didn't say that the barbed wire match won't be good. it probably is. What i was saying was that it is irrelevant how good it is, because the feud is so ridiculous and silly, it's impossible to take seriously, and therefore isn't going to draw anyone's interest. Who cares what type of match it is? the storyline's been an absolute mess, and you even agree that it's went on far too long. You defend this on the basis that the match will be good, but dismiss the X-division for not being draws, even though those bouts could also be quality. what gives?

I think your blindly defending tna at every step out of enthusiasm. it's great that your positive and everything, but i can't agree with your points.

And why should Angle/Christian work a barbed wire massacre? it's as if your saying, someone has to... so shove these two in... Well no, a barbed wire match should be INCREDIBLY rare, and be a proper pay-off to a long feud that people have taken seriously. Otherwise, it's just a ridiculously dangerous novelty match.

I don't get your comment about moving Joe and Styles from the X-division because they were such "good stars". Surely thats a reason to have people involved in a potential goldmine of a division.

To avoid confusion, i should say that i do believe Joe should be heavyweight champ, and the promotion should build around him. but that's a separate discussin. And isn't he absent from a match on the PPV? What's going on there?

Fozzy

I'm not sure if this has aired on Impact yet or not, but Joe

will be an enforcer for Angle vs Christian. Seems like Angle's feuding with four guys at the moment, Christian, Joe, Tomko and Nakamura

michael.etc...

^^^ Yeah, in my book, that's just not good enough. He's been in this position before, and it's a waste of his abilities in my view.

Machismo Fan

Right AJ Styles quickly outgrew the X-Division, he was put back in there in mid 2005 after he lost the title in KOTM because they knew him, Daniels and Joe would have awesome matches and draw decent money. When they finished, Joe moved into the heavyweight division immediately to feud with Steiner, the only time he ever looked back was to build the match for all the titles at Hard Justice. The X-Division is a breeding ground for the heavyweight division, it just is. Kaz, Joe and Styles are all examples of that.

Daniels had a brief world title chase in 2002/2003 and that fell on its face after a stinker with Jarrett(who very rarely has a bad match). I agree that the X-Division should be treated with a little more respect and be given their own feuds and lots more TV time.

Samoa Joe will be the backbone of TNA through the end of 2008. Its been 2 years since the last barbed wire massacre. The heavyweight division has, is and always should be the backbone of any company.

Fozzy

I don't think the X-Division should be any sort of breeding ground. It's perfect for guys who are never going to be competing for the heavyweight title. michael pretty much covered it. In an ideal world they should push it just as heavily as their heavyweight division. The UFC has shown that people don't care about weight or size as long as they're getting the best entertainment. Their lightweight division is as prestigious as their heavyweight division and that's almost what the X-Division was like when Joe was champ, when the division was a true draw for the company

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Its been 2 years since the last barbed wire massacre.

Two years since they had a match of that name, but they were using a barbed wire Christmas tree in a comedy match last month!

Machismo Fan

Just to inform all those interested. TNA Against All Odds will be on Bravo 2 and not the main Bravo channel which iMPACT! has been on for the last few weeks.

Fozzy

I was right to be sceptical about their ticket sales for this show, the Observer reports that they've sold less than 1,500 tickets in a 14,000 seater arena. Now they're giving away $100 tickets for free

I read the Impact review for this week and I got confused (not an unusual occurrence!). Johnny Devine is the X-Division champion, but he's in a match at the PPV where if he wins the division that he's champion of will be gone. Why would he want to win?

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

I read the Impact review for this week and I got confused (not an unusual occurrence!). Johnny Devine is the X-Division champion, but he's in a match at the PPV where if he wins the division that he's champion of will be gone. Why would he want to win?

That's nearly as bad as the time they had a tournamant where the loser of the FINAL had to wear a chicken suit. Aside from the whole chicken thing being absolutely random and propesterous, the whole concept begs the question as to why you'd bother your hole even trying to win your first round match,when you'd be better off losing it and avoiding the possibility of the dreaded chicken suit altogether. TNA is ****ing awesome......for a laugh.

rizzla

flahavaj wrote: »

That's nearly as bad as the time they had a tournamant where the loser of the FINAL had to wear a chicken suit. Aside from the whole chicken thing being absolutely random and propesterous, the whole concept begs the question as to why you'd bother your hole even trying to win your first round match,when you'd be better off losing it and avoiding the possibility of the dreaded chicken suit altogether. TNA is ****ing awesome......for a laugh.

Yeah, but the winner got a "cheque" for like $50,000. If i was put in a situation whereby I could win $50,000 or be humiliated, I'd take the risk.

As for the PPV, really looking forward to it.

Also, mentioned earlier the fact that Johnny Devine is the X Division champ in a match where if his team wins the Division is abolished thus making his championship disappear. I'm sure he'll screw over Team 3D and redeem himself, but not so much to make him a face. More like he'll do it because of the respect being a champion gets, or some BS like that.

Not to sure about Kong and ODB though. I really like both wrestlers but I'm not sure if it'll be a great match.

Fozzy

rizzla wrote: »

Also, mentioned earlier the fact that Johnny Devine is the X Division champ in a match where if his team wins the Division is abolished thus making his championship disappear. I'm sure he'll screw over Team 3D and redeem himself, but not so much to make him a face. More like he'll do it because of the respect being a champion gets, or some BS like that.

Usually I'd just say that it's so obvious that Johnny will turn on his team and they've practically given the ending away, but this is TNA and they don't always follow logic. Not sure if that's good or bad in this case...

Fozzy

I found this column interesting: http://www.thefightnetwork.com/news_detail.php?nid=6255 It's looking back at TNA and Against All Odds last year and comparing it to this year

Haha, I just looked back at a post of mine to see what I thought of the PPV last year. It was the show that caused me to not watch Impact for the first time in months

EdK

http://www.wtvstreamz.net/tnafebppv.html

EdK

Im enjoying this PPV so far especially 3D Vs The Guns and Machismo

EdK

Good main event too

Fozzy

EdK wrote: »

Good main event too

Until the usual completely unnecessary finish

EdK

Yeah i'd agree but it was good until then

rizzla

Really liked the PPV.

6 man street fight was a brilliant match, I thought. It fit with the So Cal storyline that had been brewing and really made Machismo look great. Very enjoyable.

Only match I didn't like was the opener, was a real yawn fest.

The match that really surprised me was EY vs Storm. That was a cracker, made even moreso because I had no expectations for it.

Fozzy

rizzla wrote: »

The match that really surprised me was EY vs Storm. That was a cracker, made even moreso because I had no expectations for it.

They usually work well together when given a chance. It was a very good show for the most part, which makes it all the more frustrating. The build-up didn't promote the PPV for what it actually was

I just read that they're bringing back the World X Cup. That should be real good. There's a chance that Devitt might show up

Bubs101

Fozzy wrote: »

I just read that they're bringing back the World X Cup. That should be real good. There's a chance that Devitt might show up

I'd say that's a certainty. If you look at the picture on the website there's an Irish flag sandwiched between the Canadian and American ones

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

I'd say that's a certainty. If you look at the picture on the website there's an Irish flag sandwiched between the Canadian and American ones

So there is. I just hope they don't make him look like a fool

EdK

There always has, it doesnt really mean much