Post a picture of your BMW/s here!

keith_d99

Oi what's this about 316s?! And fanatics would not say they are good either?!?

Have a 02 316 (1.8L) - I bought it because I liked it - certainly not for the badge! I like the drive I must say - just the smoothness and solidness of it, and a 1.8 has enough acceleration etc. on it.
But for the badge?!!? Come on, BMWs are as common as muck these days!

Also, drove the new 316 the other day - and I was pretty unimpressed!!
New 316 is back to a 1.6 - and it did defo feel like it! I have grown to like the new shape - but the interior is a let down - it would defo justify spending on upgrading the interior! Also was it me, or has the new 3 series lost the smooth ride??

maidhc

ronoc wrote: »

You are not arguing because you know you are wrong.

Toyota A386s are still very popular for the fact they are RWD. They are close as makes no difference to 100bhp. MX5s, MR2s all proper drivers cars. Shall I go on?

I have a FWD Ford Focus 1.8 diesel and a RWD Ford Capri 2.1. Both have about 120bhp.

I can see no great benefit in the RWD in the Capper, apart from tomfoolery in wet roundabouts and the like.

The Focus handles as well as any BMW. Obviously as JHMEG noted if I was trying to put 200+ though the front wheels I would have issues such as torque steer to deal with, but I don't. It grips like a grippy thing.

As for perfect weight distribution? Since when did a diff and a few CV joints weigh the same as a V6 out front.

maidhc

One thing I have only noticed in the past few days:

The wipers on the 5 series are the wrong way around. I thought the french marques were the only ones that did that! Don't get me wrong, I am not a BMW hater, and will buy one in the next few years, but quite frankly I am dissappointed. Surely it isn't that hard to make them park on the left and not fit those ugly kludges of things that modify the sweep so you have less of a dirty arc to peer under.

kdevitt

JHMEG wrote: »

I'm not arguing this crap again. 100bhp to the front or back wheels makes no difference to the average joe. No one buys a 100bhp RWD car on the basis that it's RWD. Especially when in the case of BMW they could get a much better FWD car for the same money.

Just to make a point which you mightn't like - but having owned 4 Civics (1.3, 2 1.6 SI's, and VTi) and a VXi CRX, and haven driven plenty of Tegs, not one of them handles or drives anywhere near as well as my missus 115BHP 316ti.

I used to think you posts were quite level headed, but you really seem to be just ranting for no reason these days.

TheBazman

maidhc wrote: »

One thing I have only noticed in the past few days:

The wipers on the 5 series are the wrong way around. I thought the french marques were the only ones that did that! Don't get me wrong, I am not a BMW hater, and will buy one in the next few years, but quite frankly I am dissappointed. Surely it isn't that hard to make them park on the left and not fit those ugly kludges of things that modify the sweep so you have less of a dirty arc to peer under.

I have a 5 series and beyond first noticing it you won't pass a bit of heed on it after that. I certainly cant say that I notice a dirty arc that is obstructing my view

maidhc

maidhc wrote: »

I have a FWD Ford Focus 1.8 diesel and a RWD Ford Capri 2.1. Both have about 120bhp.

I can see no great benefit in the RWD in the Capper, apart from tomfoolery in wet roundabouts and the like.

The Focus handles as well as any BMW. Obviously as JHMEG noted if I was trying to put 200+ though the front wheels I would have issues such as torque steer to deal with, but I don't. It grips like a grippy thing.

As for perfect weight distribution? Since when did a diff and a few CV joints weigh the same as a V6 out front.

Maybe you should read up about this a bit more.

Have a look which direction the engine is mounted in a FF configuration and a FR.
The more of engine's weight is between the axels in a FR setup. As well as the gearbox which most times wholly between the axels in FR.

In FF the engine and transmission are one unit and lie accross the engine bay. Most of the weight is almost directly above the front wheels hence the difficulty in creating a FF car with equal weight distribution front and rear.

Seth Brundle

maidhc wrote: »

One thing I have only noticed in the past few days:

The wipers on the 5 series are the wrong way around. I thought the french marques were the only ones that did that! Don't get me wrong, I am not a BMW hater, and will buy one in the next few years, but quite frankly I am dissappointed. Surely it isn't that hard to make them park on the left and not fit those ugly kludges of things that modify the sweep so you have less of a dirty arc to peer under.

Christ - are you really arguing over wipers?
I like the fact that mine are different from most peoples!

maidhc

kbannon wrote: »

Christ - are you really arguing over wipers?
I like the fact that mine are different from most peoples!

I do think it takes away from the car.

As regards FWD and RWD I don't need to read up. I own both, and I can assure you there is no weight in the back of the capri despite it being a RWD. In fact some people are known to put a bag of cement in the boot to keep the car facing the right way going around corners!

E92

keith_d99 wrote: »

BMWs are as common as muck these days!

No they're not. Toyota have 15% of the Irish car market. VW have 11.4%. Ford have slightly less at 11.39%. Opel have 8.7% and Nissan had 7.5% last year. BMW have only 3.7%!

keith_d99 wrote: »

Also, drove the new 316 the other day - and I was pretty unimpressed!!
New 316 is back to a 1.6 - and it did defo feel like it! I have grown to like the new shape - but the interior is a let down - it would defo justify spending on upgrading the interior! Also was it me, or has the new 3 series lost the smooth ride??

BMW are getting rid of the 316i as a result of the VRT changes(they only sold it because the old system provided huge financial incentives for owning a 1.6 litre car), so I wouldn't worry about the base engine in a 3 series being a 1.6 for too much longer;)!

JHMEG

kdevitt wrote: »

Jdriven plenty of Tegs, not one of them handles or drives anywhere near as well as my missus 115BHP 316ti.

LOL!!

@ronoc - why would one want 50:50 weight distribution in a FWD car? What the fook do you need the weight at the back for? None of the best FWD cars, Mini, 206gti, ITR had it.. and why would they?

kdevitt

You seemed to chop out the most relevant part of my quote. Curious.

JHMEG

kdevitt wrote: »

You seemed to chop out the most relevant part of my quote. Curious.

Sorry, I quoted the bit that made me laugh most..

JHMEG

JHMEG wrote: »

LOL!!

@ronoc - why would one want 50:50 weight distribution in a FWD car? What the fook do you need the weight at the back for? None of the best FWD cars, Mini, 206gti, ITR had it.. and why would they?

I'd explain it again but its been explained multiple times already.

You just seem to be ignoring the things you disagree with!

commited

JHMEG wrote: »

I'm not arguing this crap again. 100bhp to the front or back wheels makes no difference to the average joe. No one buys a 100bhp RWD car on the basis that it's RWD. Especially when in the case of BMW they could get a much better FWD car for the same money.

I thought we'd established that most people in this thread weren't average Joes. We aren't discussing the merits of 316 BMWs because the only people that drive them, drive them so that they can impress people with the fact that they have a BMW. Average Joes are the type of people that spend 13k on a 5 year old 1.4 Golf, because it has a good name.

You are projecting your opinion as fact and not doing yourself any favours.

And whats this about being able to buy a much better FWD car over a similar BMW. This is absolute crap. When I was looking for mine, equivalent Audi's were all the same price, less efficient and just plain boring. You need to quantify things rather than generalise. You sound like the typical Honda driver - OMG VTEC JUST KICKED IN.

I've had plenty of minis - one of the best handling FWD cars - all with modified suspension that I thought would outhandle anything (and outhandled plenty of Civics and the like). When I wanted some more power, I then drove Civics/focuses etc and I was really really disapointed. Took out a new MINI and it handled well, but not as well as i was led to believe. I expected something epic. I then made the mistake of driving a friends e30 M3 (I had absolutely no interest in RWD and didn't get why people kept on buying BMWs) and I was hooked. Sure an FWD car will be able to keep the power applied in the wet for longer, and possibly corner quicker, but the person in the Mazda MX-5 or the 3 series BMW will have alot more fun.

JHMEG - it looks like you've got the bit between your teeth and ran with it. I suggest you go out and drive a BMW 330i Sport or the like, and see what cars really handle like

kdevitt

Didn't say a Type R doesn't handle as well - I said my Civics, CRX, and the Tegs I'd driven (DC2 Si and the same as your scrapper) don't handle or drive as well. Hilarious alright??

kdevitt

Anyhoo - slightly back on topic. Am hoping to pick up another toy soon, this being the choice of the moment.



Although this might be fun with a different engine thrown in - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/308066.htm

E92

kdevitt wrote: »

Anyhoo - slightly back on topic. Am hoping to pick up another toy soon, this being the choice of the moment.

That must be one of the few pristine E30s left. Pity that there is no chrome on the double kidney grilles!

kdevitt

Yeah I'd put the chrome kidneys back on - cost very little. It even has aircon which is rare for an E30.

Masada

jaysus, cant believe this BMW vs everything else battle is still going,., im not gonna get myself pulled in by some of the stupidly irrelivant comments but have the say, my favourate was the linking of similarities between a BMW and an F1 car., ., lol

Kdevitt, thats a seriously clean E30 you have there, dont see many of them on the roads these days., A mate has the 325 with all the alpina stuff and just had a repaint in its original white., id give a kidney for it.,lol

Seth Brundle

vtec wrote: »

jaysus, cant believe this BMW vs everything else battle is still going,., im not gonna get myself pulled in by some of the stupidly irrelivant comments but have the say, my favourate was the linking of similarities between a BMW and an F1 car., ., lol

I fairness I think you are taking that reference out of context!
Most motorsports use RWD. Also many championships where there is a mix of RWD and FWD, there is a weight penalty placed on the RWD cars because of the RWD gains!

milltown

kdevitt wrote: »

Anyhoo - slightly back on topic. Am hoping to pick up another toy soon, this being the choice of the moment.



Although this might be fun with a different engine thrown in - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/308066.htm

Just what the hell do you think you're doing posting a photo of a BMW in the "Why BMWs r0x0r/sux0r" thread!!??

Oh hang on, I just had another look at the thread title.
Sorry

Masada

kbannon wrote: »

I fairness I think you are taking that reference out of context!
Most motorsports use RWD. Also many championships where there is a mix of RWD and FWD, there is a weight penalty placed on the RWD cars because of the RWD gains!

Im not taking it out of context at all, if the BWM was mid engined aswell as rearwheel drive then it would be a perfectly reasonable comparason. In reality the engine is up front and bears very little similarities with F1 car so is silly to compare them and use the "similarities" as bragging rights.
The MR2 was smoothly mentioned in there aswell to reinforce a point , that has far more similarities to an F1 car than any BWM and its not in any class with a BWM so that point is useless.,.,
if by motorsport, you mean world touring cars, the BWMs have a big advantage off the line but once everyone gets going there isnt really any difference. they have a hard job trying to shake off the Cupra's last season even though they have the best drivers. The comming season in BTCC should be interesting though, last year the highest finishing BWM deiver was colin turkington in an E90, just ahead of him was none other than the Honda civic of mat neil and team halfords. then plato's leon and Giovanardi's vectra.
see it can be bragged both ways,.
people need to start realizing that these are all just cars and stop talking BS about which is better than what unless its a conversation based on facts and not just the childish examples so far..,
Once again, the F1 comparason made this thead for me.,;)

Seth Brundle

Hang on. Lets rewind a bit.

richie_rvf wrote: »

JHMEG wrote: »

Sorry I mustn't have made my point well enough: in a low powered car the driven wheels won't impact on anything much, yet a lot of people, not just owners of low power BMWs will cite RWD as the deciding factor. But in reality they bought the car for something other reason, be it the badge or whatever.

The only time a light 160bhp FWD car would have trouble putting power down is off the line in the wet. It would be quicker at cornering than an M30 in the wet tho.

The amount of power is only part of the equation.

More importantly is weight distribution and balance.

Why do you think F1 cars are RWD??

From what I read, the only comparison was that F1 cars use RWD and also are balanced.
BMWs use RWD which gives them a 50-50 weight distribution.

Nobody apart from yourself was suggesting they are similar (and then for somereason bringing the MR2 into the debate). The point was made that both BMWs and F1 cars use a similar technology which helps give the balancing result. Maybe it would have sounded better if Richie user Formula Vee as the comparison but most people possibly wouldn't know of these.
WRT to the weight penalty, yes this does occur in the BTCC and the WTCC amongst others and its done for a reason. It doesn't happen in many other series because there isn't a mix of types of car liek there is in touring cars.
As for

vtec wrote:

last year the highest finishing BWM deiver was colin turkington in an E90, just ahead of him was none other than the Honda civic of mat neil and team halfords. then plato's leon and Giovanardi's vectra.
see it can be bragged both ways,.

I really don't give a toss whether BMW win or not. However, the results in BTCC do largely depend on several factors such as budget, driver, teamwork, etc and not just the make of car. If we are trying to use race results to win the argument then might I just refer you to the WTCC?

rebel.ranter

Eventually got around to taking a few fresh pics and can bring this thread back on topic:


(hard top on for the winter)

Andrewf20

Just reading thru alot of the posts and heres my 2 cents.

It really doesnt matter which is faster around corners, what really matters is if the car puts a smile on your face. Talking to the brother here, he reckons a Primera which he drove a few years back would be faster thru the bends than his E30 318is, but so what. His E30 is much more challenging and fun to drive. In truth alot of modern FWD drives are great handlers, and there are pros and cons to both FWD and RWD. I think along similar terms. To exaggerate the point, I have no real interest in driving a 4WD Legacy B4 with all the trick gear meaning I can corner a big speeds. Sometimes its nice to reach the cars cornering limits at lower speeds.

I can see JHMEGS point that 100bhp thru the front or back wheels probably wont make a difference to average joe who wouldnt be considered a driving "enthusiast". One thing I would disagree with though is in relation to the comments about 160bhp only losing traction in the wet. I remember seeing a Cooper S at Mondello, and it just couldnt seem to get the power down coming out if the last corner in the dry.