Gather round, boys and girls...

Overheal

Reading a lot of these threads - I realized I can save a lot of time by leaving a single rant

First of all: I was no different in secondary school. You want to do what you can to ensure you do the least amount of effort possible for the appropriate amount of target gain. You want to spend more time having me-time than study time.

The truth is this is the year you're meant to figure out once and for all how to balance study (ie. extra-curricular work) with the rest of your life. College will expect it of you. Your career will expect it of you. Time Management

The thing about it is the amount of effort you put into it right now is the same kind of effort you should be prepared to spend in college. every week. for 4 years. God help you if youre one of those doctor types

The other thing is: dont aim too low. My course the year before me required 310. I aimed for 325. I got 290. The course shot up to 370. I lost a year because I was gambling on how many people were going to try and apply for that course. Thats really what it boils down to: course demand is a good indicator of point cost. The problem is you have no idea how 20,000 other LC students are going to pick their courses for the CAO. Its a ridiculous gamble.

If you want to do the course, then do the study. If you don't want to do the course, than dont. Go fail. Give it to someone that has a chance of passing it. Its disgusting to see course slots wasted on chancers that gambled their way in and got their ass kicked by continuous assessments. Spots that might have been given to people that deserved them.

Also: when picking out your course, dont base your choice on hear say and the information in the prospectus; the name of the course; etc. Thats a mistake I made - the course was not as entirely advertised. I lucked out though and it suited me just the same. However very few would take a liking to that.
If you really want to know about a course: go to the website; find the course's head/tutor's page; email them: ask them about the course; list your expectations, concerns, etc. and ask to be put in touch with a current pupil or two: normally a class rep, who will be able to give you their opinion on the course having been through some/most of it. Get the details. It can all be done by email (which is the best method for getting detailed, accurate information). Too easy not to do.

The other thing is: READ THE FU*KING MANUAL. Roughly half of the discussion that happens in this forum can be answered with the information directly given to you in your CAO handbook. Give it a thorough read. Its astonishing how many people, every year, lose out because they did not read the handbook. It takes all of an hour to read the first time. Keep it in your bathroom. Read it when you're wiping up. Commit the information to memory. Its as important as any of your subjects to know.

And one last thing: f*ck mommy and daddy. They may want you to do a course in X but if its not what you want to do yourself, then you don't really stand much chance for graduating in it anyway. If you wanna be an archaeologist and daddy wants you to be a psychologist - for the love of god, be an archaeologist. You're parents will still love and support you. Don't think otherwise.

Thats all for now.

rainbowtrout

+1

Overheal wrote: »

The other thing is: dont aim too low. My course the year before me required 310. I aimed for 325. I got 290. The course shot up to 370. I lost a year because I was gambling on how many people were going to try and apply for that course. Thats really what it boils down to: course demand is a good indicator of point cost.

to add my tuppence worth. Don't decide 'I'm going to drop to all ordinary level subjects because I don't need any honours for the course I want to do' The amount of time I've spent arguing with students who were capable of sitting a Higher Level paper and dropped to Ordinary Level for this reason astonishes me. Sure, it works out for some, but I've had a number of them come back over the years and say, what I was doing didn't work out/didn't like the course/job, so I'm repeating/looking for a way into college, but I don't have the points/requirements because I took Ordinary Level. Don't drop a level out of laziness and apathy and a belief that you will never need it, you never know when you will change your mind and want to do something else with your life and those grades might just come in useful.

Overheal wrote: »

Also: when picking out your course, dont base your choice on hear say and the information in the prospectus; the name of the course; etc. Thats a mistake I made - the course was not as entirely advertised. I lucked out though and it suited me just the same. However very few would take a liking to that.

I agree. People can give you very good or bad impressions of a course, which can be extremely biased 'The course was crap and the amount of work they expected us to do was ridiculous' could easily translate as 'I was on the piss for the first two months of the semester and didn't darken the door of a lecture until a week before Christmas.


Don't choose a course because your friends are doing the course, they are doing the course (hopefully) because they are interested in the subject area, why would you do something you're not interested in just to be in a course with your friends? You will make new friends. Choose something you like and you will have a better chance of enjoying (and completing) the course.

Overheal

I also found this post relevant and wise:

Randomness wrote:

please please please pick the course that you are most interested in / will enjoy the most / can get the most out of

don't go by points / what your friends are doing / what some randomer tells you that you should do because of a test or something.

so many people i know now are either dropping out or regretting choices because they went for the high points course and would have been happier with their second choice.

also what you enjoy in school will have a major effect. think about what subjects you love now and look in that direction because many people have also said they miss certain subjects from the leaving and wish they could do them now.

if you like lots of things go for a broad course cos god know's you will get bored in a specific course.

many of you probably know this already but it might help someone.

also don't worry bout the stupid "CAO Deadline" 20,000 change before the
1st of july anyway and i was one of them.

just put something down but serioulsy relax cos you can change at the click of a button.

if your worried bout gettin it out of the way, don't. if you change after the leaving you have nothing to be doing anyway so you will look on it with a much more relaxed, informed view.

When you finish your exams in June you will have a couple weeks afterward to change your course preferences, and you can change them a million times if you feel the need to.

The other thing about saying that is that, after the exams, you might feel panicked enough to change your choices around because of how you think you did. This is a silly idea: if you pick what you want to do and have ordered them in the order of personal preference then you are sorted.

What will be worse is if you dont list your choices by your preference: then it turns out you get your first choice - and you really wanted to do your third choice. Not a great situation to be honest. If you want to do the third choice more then THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS: make the third choice your first. F*ck (I love that word) point and grade requirements when you are making your choices, because ultimately you will be happier in the course you wanted to do the most.

Fad

gah this CAO business will be fun, i already have a fairly concrete idea what i want to do

i ll get it out of the way as soon as i get the thing

Overheal

Update: Course choices which may not be present in your 2008 handbook, but for which applications may be made (link)

CAO handbook online

Dman001

Anyone else not sure what course to do after school? I am not in Leaving Cert but when you're not sure what to do, you may end up picking the wrong subjects in 5th Year.

Prowetod

Dman001 wrote: »

Anyone else not sure what course to do after school?

I have no idea what so ever!!! but I am only in 5th year. Hopefully I will run in to something that might take my interest, but tbh I cant see that happening.

Yuugib

I m in 6th year and is it me or anybody else got a sick feeling from all those talkes about cao? no offence to all the ppl who are giving the advise.. or maybe its just me... mmm

JC 2K3

Dman001 wrote: »

Anyone else not sure what course to do after school? I am not in Leaving Cert but when you're not sure what to do, you may end up picking the wrong subjects in 5th Year.

Barely any courses have specific subject requirements. The ones that do are generally science courses, and generally if you were going to pick that course you'd have had an interest in that subject area in 5th year and would have picked appropriate subjects.

Overheal

I'd have to check up on this but..
if you are really unsure what you want to do: you could remove ALL of your course choices on the CAO. In effect: you aren't put into 'the lottery' so to speak. Doing so means that in a year (or more) you can still use the results of your 08' exams to apply through the CAO at a later date.

Or if you cant have an empty course-choice list I guess you can always withdraw your application altogether.

The advantage of this: say you were to get 600 points. w00t to you. You could then hold off for a year or more, knowing you pretty much have your choice of any course out there: so you can wait to apply when you are sure you want to do something: rather than get into something and realise its not what you want to do at all (which happens to about 1 in 5 college students).

This is all probably just wishful thinking though: if you can do this ^ I'll look into it and get back to ye.

Cokehead Mother

Overheal wrote: »

I'd have to check up on this but..
if you are really unsure what you want to do: you could remove ALL of your course choices on the CAO. In effect: you aren't put into 'the lottery' so to speak. Doing so means that in a year (or more) you can still use the results of your 08' exams to apply through the CAO at a later date.

Or if you cant have an empty course-choice list I guess you can always withdraw your application altogether.

The advantage of this: say you were to get 600 points. w00t to you. You could then hold off for a year or more, knowing you pretty much have your choice of any course out there: so you can wait to apply when you are sure you want to do something: rather than get into something and realise its not what you want to do at all (which happens to about 1 in 5 college students).

This is all probably just wishful thinking though: if you can do this ^ I'll look into it and get back to ye.

Um... you're not obligated to accept a course, and you can then still apply next year with your 2008 results.

I guess maybe you should've READ THE F*CKING MANUAL.

Overheal

my point exactly...

*cough*

Meh I read it when I was in school - t'was years ago.

rainbowtrout

Overheal wrote: »

I'd have to check up on this but..
if you are really unsure what you want to do: you could remove ALL of your course choices on the CAO. In effect: you aren't put into 'the lottery' so to speak. Doing so means that in a year (or more) you can still use the results of your 08' exams to apply through the CAO at a later date.

Or if you cant have an empty course-choice list I guess you can always withdraw your application altogether.

The advantage of this: say you were to get 600 points. w00t to you. You could then hold off for a year or more, knowing you pretty much have your choice of any course out there: so you can wait to apply when you are sure you want to do something: rather than get into something and realise its not what you want to do at all (which happens to about 1 in 5 college students).

This is all probably just wishful thinking though: if you can do this ^ I'll look into it and get back to ye.

I don't think it's a good idea to be encouraging LC students to withdraw their appplication to the CAO so they can think about what they want to do for the year. As Cokehead Mother said, you don't have to accept the course you get. Personally for the sake of €45 I would prefer to apply and have that choice come august rather than having done all my research and then not be able to go to college because I had withdrawn my application.

Overheal

Mmm true. Ive since forgotten the thing of not accepting your offer; was just trying to offer a solution to anyone still hesitant about jumping into a college course next year.

rainbowtrout

Overheal wrote: »

Mmm true. Ive since forgotten the thing of not accepting your offer; was just trying to offer a solution to anyone still hesitant about jumping into a college course next year.

Ah, and therein lies the problem. Maybe you might pause in the future before posting 'Read the f*cking manual' again.

I get frustrated when I see lots of posts about things that are in the CAO handbook, but it can be very confusing for a student who has not been through the process before, does not have older brothers and sisters who have been through it and can advise and help them and also does not have the benefit of a good career guidance counsellor to give them a hand, it's easy to read the manual and miss something or not understand how the system works.


For example an alternative (and better) solution in my opinion would be for a student to apply to the CAO, they then have the chance of an offer of a college place. If they are sure they don't want it they can refuse it, if they are unsure, they can DEFER it for a year and go working/travelling/ do a one year Post Leaving Certificate course and get another qualification in the meantime, over the months before the CAO comes around again they can decide whether or not they want to take up that place, apply again for a new course or do something different that doesn't involve college at all. That's a way of keeping all options open for someone who isn't sure about heading to college in the autumn.

Plenty of my students defer their courses every year, stay on with us and do a PLC course in business and computing. They are gaining skills which they will use in college, some go on to take up the places they originally deferred and some change their mind when they realise their interests lie elsewhere. None of them have ever come back and said it was a waste of a year though.

Yuugib

Amen! Rainbowtrout

plus it is sickening when people are using fc word all the time.. once-twice ok.. then.. :X

Chunky Monkey

I agree with rainbowtrout. Don't feel that you have to go to college straight after school and decide to put any auld thing on the CAO. I made this mistake and wound up in a course I didn't like. You may say fair enough just drop out. But this isn't as easy as it sounds. I dropped out before the end of the half year so if I go back next year I have to pay that half year tuition fee. If I dropped out after christmas I would have to pay the full years fees which I think amounts to something like six grand. That's a lot of money.

If you aren't sure, take the year out, maybe get a job or travel and give yourself a chance to mature and decide what's really for you. At the end of the day it's your life and I don't agree with this pressure that's placed on sixth year students to go to college. Everyone thought I was mad taking two years out and not settling for a science degree (which I didn't want). I got an offer for medicine in the UK today. Waiting pays off in the end.

That being said there's no harm in applying through the CAO now and remember you have a chance to change your mind at the end of June for free.

Mars Bar

Overheal wrote: »

The other thing is: dont aim too low. My course the year before me required 310. I aimed for 325. I got 290. The course shot up to 370. I lost a year because I was gambling on how many people were going to try and apply for that course. Thats really what it boils down to: course demand is a good indicator of point cost. The problem is you have no idea how 20,000 other LC students are going to pick their courses for the CAO. Its a ridiculous gamble.

That is exactly what happened to me...I needed 330, aimed for 330, got 320 and the course went up to 365...now I'm repeating
Trust me, it hurts!

Overheal

mars bar wrote: »

That is exactly what happened to me...I needed 330, aimed for 330, got 320 and the course went up to 365...now I'm repeating
Trust me, it hurts!

Yep - I can just see thousands of students all around the country debating with themselves whether or not they put in enough effort... "Well, I only need xxx so this really isnt important..." and then they dont bother to study their poets/formulae/theory.

No worse feeling in the exams then when you are staring blankly at a question you know yourself you could have answered in a blink if you had studied for it even a little.

annie19

:oi have say all d info here is so wise and helpful
thanks 4 taking the time its made me wake up! nw all i abe 2 do is get d head down:mad:it hurts 4 now bt its only a few months i suppose. Roll on summer '08!:p

Overheal

annie19 wrote: »

:oi have say all d info here is so wise and helpful
thanks 4 taking the time its made me wake up! nw all i abe 2 do is get d head down:mad:it hurts 4 now bt its only a few months i suppose. Roll on summer '08!:p

That was the point entirely none of us like the thought of anyone failing here.

Corrina O'Sulli

few ppl ayin theyve seen hist moc. vietnam is cumin up, fascism in europe and cosgrave vs dev and parnell vs davitt.
2 comparison q's. harsh i tink!

Mars Bar

Aw...why did you do that?

cmb

Yuugib wrote: »

I m in 6th year and is it me or anybody else got a sick feeling from all those talkes about cao? no offence to all the ppl who are giving the advise.. or maybe its just me... mmm

i'm in 6th year too
listen don't worry about the cao seriously.it doesnt have to be filled out this year. if u r still not sure what u want to do by july u could decide to take a year out, get some work experience. probably better than starting a course u don't like or dropping out, wasting a lot of money

dont be stressed about people always talking about cao. its telling u that u r nearly finished school and will be going 2 college next which wil be so much better, i'm hoping

loup

Speaking as a mature 30-something I would agree with a lot of the points! Hell I studied science subjects in college..where did I end up working? IT! So I would really recommend doing a course you LOVE, no matter what the job prospects/points/what your friends are doing. If you are studying something you love, you will do well, this will look good on your CV and employers will be impressed. As I said I joined an IT dept with a science qualification. Best of luck to all doing the LC!