New Audi A4 - Launched today

copacetic

AudiChris wrote: »

Climate control is standard, the display you refer to is the MMI and not required for Cllimate. Also it's available from €547, included in a radio upgrade.

I'm not referring to the MMI, I'm referring to the fact that the std climate control doesn't have temperature displays on the unit and that you have to upgrade to the triple zone one to get local displays. At least thats what my dealer told me and seems correct based on online pics. The demo they had included this upgrade. They also said sline was €9k, although that was a while back, possibly they were including 'sport' spec there as you have to get it to get sline apparently? so sline is €8k over standard spec is your latest info?

I do agree with you that the concert with sd cards is a good unit, it should be standard though. Dissapointed on satnav though. I upgraded mine after market to a brand new navplus for 1k, compared to 4.5k as factory. Them making this more difficult is a right pain as they are making at least 600% markup on the satnav units.

copacetic

MarkN wrote: »

And no, I'm not talking about keyless entry. If I am wrong, fair enough but from what I gathered from studying the brochures, you got a typical ignition key as standard and the key which can be pushed into the dash was 1,000 quid.

Don't think that is correct Mark, the €1000 gets you keyless entry and the start button, you don't have to take the key from your pocket. The std key you just press into dash to start car.

The start button the the 3 coupe seems silly to me since you need to insert the key, then press the start button. It saves you no time at all.

It seems like we are hounding AudiChris but we should point out that Mark moved from the S3 to the 335 and is a similar case to me. Audi customers being driven away by continued overpricing of options (imo of course).

The A5 is a great example. The 1.8T is not moving in price at all, but the 320i coupe is coming down to 43k or so in July. No contest from then on really. The A5 just won't sell when you can get a very similar car for so much cheaper.

MarkN

copacetic wrote: »

Don't think that is correct Mark, the €1000 gets you keyless entry and the start button, you don't have to take the key from your pocket. The std key you just press into dash to start car.

Ok, I wasn't sure what the story was with that. I actually think the start button is pointless, it's one of those "ohhhhhhh" things when someone gets into the passenger seat for the first time.

The Audi key did save a quick second or two when I did have a loan of the A5.

copacetic wrote: »

It seems like we are hounding AudiChris

Yeh no fair play for signing up Chris, don't mean it to come across like that at all. It's cool to have someone on the 'inside'.

-Chris-

MarkN wrote: »

Yeh no fair play for signing up Chris, don't mean it to come across like that at all. It's cool to have someone on the 'inside'.

Not taking this personal at all, I'm getting great practice at objection handling from this thread!!!

I can't keep up with the queries, cos as customers come in I get dragged away from the pc, but I'll help/clarify/argue whenever I can.

I love cars - full-stop. I chose to sell Audi. You can't offend me by saying a BMW's better than an Audi, it's all personal tastes and in quite a number of cases you're probably right.
I'm not from the "Top Trumps" school of comparing cars. For each man there's a perfect car, and for a true petrolhead your "perfect car" probably changes every day....

I'll help with Audi info, I'll learn about the competition, I'll make some compadres and I'll have something do do when I should be working - boards.ie is being very good to me so far

copacetic

and just to be clear, I much prefer audi to bmw. At the same price I'd go for audi over bmw every time. However value is important to me, or at least perceived value. At the moment it looks like I can get a BMW 320d coupe in July for the same price as equivalent engined audi A4 (TDI 170), possibly cheaper. There is something wrong with the world if that's how it works out.

Matt Simis

Can someone remove the SHIFT or 1 (!) key from MercMad so we dont have to read everything with gasped breath "OMG Mercs are just better!!!"

MercMad

Matt Simis wrote: »

Can someone remove the SHIFT or 1 (!) key from MercMad so we dont have to read everything with gasped breath "OMG Mercs are just better!!!"

...........dont I have the right to an exclaimation mark ? Maybe its just my Canadian accent ehh !!

I dont mean to have a go at Chris either, nor any of the Audi/BMW fans and despite my username I am not blind to the faults and flaws with any of the cars I own.

I think the A5 is a lovely car, but as is the general concensus for a new car trying to get into a new market, which it is, it should have one or two areas completely covered and the optional extras should be priced more keenly.

Thats the only way to win business in this sector !

Yep, confirmed for defo. If you go to the 4 pot engines you lose the mufu s/wheel and get smaller alloys, but everything else mentioned is standard.

..........but its standard spec. I am talking about, the stuff that comes with the basic car !

Audi's target market with the A5 & new A4 is BMW drivers. Conquest sales from BMW are where it's at. Winning over Merc drivers is not as important.
I agree that the seat-belt presenter is a handy feature, I don't agree it's a deal-breaker.
Also with the rear headrests - at their lowest position the A5 & 3 Series headrests don't obstruct view, if you have passengers they rarely adjust them anyway. I'd expect the same is true with the Mercs - if you sat in the back of someone's Merc and the rear headrests were folded down, would you even bother flipping them up?

...........certainly the headrest issue wouldn't break a deal, but when you have it it IS handy. The seat belt presenter never bothered me in another car, but now I have it I simply wouldn't consider a car that didn't have it. Then again I havent sat in the A5 so it may not be an issue at all, so I guess I would concede those points to you !

The Audis get 2 speed warning buzzers that will warn you when you exceed either of the two pre-set speeds. I've had one customer tell me they're sticking with Merc because it has a speed limiter rather than a speed warning signal.

Is the speed limiter a possible safety hazard? Is it possible to forget you set it at 120kmph and then when you're overtaking someone doing 100kmph and you're accelerating hard to get around them, will you bounce off the limiter? I've never used it, but if you're getting down to the level of detail of which has auto folding headrests, I'd site the speed limiter as a concern...

...........fair enough, an audible warning would do just fine, its a handy feature, and just so you know the Merc one is a "soft" limit. The car hits the limit in a dampened type way, but its instantly bye-passed when you hit the kickdown switch. That switch is present on cars with manual transmission also !

I think we are in the "nitty gritty" area now, so i'll stop being pedantic

RedorDead..

Auto headlights - Standard on A5 (called light sensor)
Auto wipers - Standard on A5 (called rain sensors)
Rear opening windows -electric - no need on Coupe
Folding rear seats 50-50 - Standard on A5
Automatic seatbelt presenter - No idea wtf this is???
Multi disc CD player - Not standard on CLK either.
Auto fold rear headrests - Not std on A5 - no great customer benefit
Speed limiter - Cruise control standard on A5

.......as I said I had looked at the spec elsewhere and couldn't find confirmation of some of those issues PLUS I stated that since the A5 was some 5 years newer it will no doubt have features which the CLK wont have.

For you to state that there is no need for opening side windows on a Coupe is ridiculous. Of ALL cars these are the ones that need it most, and its why Merc Coupes have pretty much always had them since the 50's.

A multi disc CD unit IS standard on all CLK's since 2002 !

RedorDead

MercMad wrote: »

A multi disc CD unit IS standard on all CLK's since 2002 !

News to me, ive checked their sales literature and its not listed and any 07/08CLK listed on carzone has cd player listed in the std equipment. Why would you downgrade?

tvr

haven't your heard both merc and bmw are old luxury.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0_sshN-URJY

MercMad

RedorDead wrote: »

News to me, ive checked their sales literature and its not listed and any 07/08CLK listed on carzone has cd player listed in the std equipment. Why would you downgrade?

..........well since we have two in the family, both bought new and both have multi discs which were not bought as options....................what can I say !

However.................I must admit that it is possible they have changed the spec since ours were bought and included something else..............IPod connection or something ??

Not sure to be honest !:o

EDIT : Just spotted this page on Carzone

http://www.carzone.ie/newcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=Details&vehicle_id=35436720070301&strSpecs=SSCIRL2002

Manufacturers Own RDS audio player with AM/FM, CD player, Disc Autochanger and six-disc remote changer

learnerplates

Does anyone know what the price of the previous model (Audi A4) was new?
the 143bph Diesel S-line model in particular.

The new one is listed as 47000!

Any ideas on the price change on this in July as well?

prospect

E92 wrote: »

Are Audi(and sister VAG companies VW, Seat and Skoda) going to follow BMW's lead and pass on VRT savings in full to the consumer?

What lead?:rolleyes:

AFAIK, FIAT are the only company to comit to the Post July pricing....

learnerplates

prospect wrote: »

What lead?:rolleyes:

AFAIK, FIAT are the only company to comit to the Post July pricing....

Your saying that other distributers in Ireland are not going to pass on the VRT saving to customers?
I'd like to know more in particular about Audi, I'd expect to pay a few grand less in July for an A4 than I do now!!:eek:

MercMad

I very much doubt that will happen. Manufacturers/distributors and dealer have seen this as a way to increase their revenue. The VRT people will get their cut of the extras but these still have the same COST price to dealers. therefore they increase the amount of options so the list price stays the same, in fact my gues is it will rise slightly.

The reason Fiat have chosen to drop the prices is that they have no choice.............there arent enough options on most models, who is going to order leather or Sat Nav on a Punto or Panda !!

copacetic

prospect wrote: »

What lead?:rolleyes:

AFAIK, FIAT are the only company to comit to the Post July pricing....

bmw are on record as saying they will pass on full reductions. Fiat have said they are already passing on reductions when they are actually not passing on the full amounts so are planning a shafting in advance..

kluivert

mick.fr wrote: »

Err, what is wrong with this post?
Don't I have the right to talk here and make a joke.
Did I insulted somebody or violated the forum rules. No.

If I am the only to laugh fair enough, I will understand it myself at some stage, not worth a threat or ban though.

Unkel drives a BMW lol so becareful lol.

I thought it was funny.

Biro

Seeing as we're on an Audi thread, how come people always talk up the A4 and say how wonderful it is, and then you mention an A3 to the same people and they'll say "Ah, that's just a tarted up Golf. Waste of money".
I don't get that! I think the A3 3dr is a bigger jump over the Golf 3dr than the A4 is over the Passat (exclude the B7 A4 for the time being).
Also, it's worth noting that VW Ireland are ripping off big time with the 170bhp TDi Golf. It's dearer than the GTI. It's around €38k. You can get the A3 with the same engine for about €2k less! I know which I'd prefer!

-Chris-

learnerplates wrote: »

Does anyone know what the price of the previous model (Audi A4) was new?
the 143bph Diesel S-line model in particular.

The new one is listed as 47000!

Any ideas on the price change on this in July as well?

If you're going to compare prices, compare them on the base model. The new model Sport is completely different from the old model sport, doesn't contain any of the same bits.

New Model:
A4 2.0TDI 143BHP 6-SPEED - €44,200
Old Model:
A4 2.0 TDI 140BHP - €43,320
€900 increase for the new model. About par for the course...

Not comparable with the Sport specs.
New Model:
A4 2.0TDI 143BHP 6-SPEED SPORT - €47,400
Old Model
A4 2.0 TDI 140BHP SPORT - €44,270


2.0TDi will drop from 30% VRT to 20% VRT, base your price/spec expectations on this.

copacetic

audichris, just as a note, you mentioned earlier that the sline wasn't the 9k I thought but only 5k. I was on to my dealer again and they said it is 9k, that it is 5.5k for sline sport pack (interior pack + wheels). 1.5k for cheapest seats that you can order with this pack and 2k for the sline exterior pack. Are you still saying this is wrong?

groupb

I thought this forum was about interesting cars. Not motoring white goods like audis. Saw a new A4 today which looks like the old A4 , which looks like an A6 which lo.........................................ZZZZZZ.

-Chris-

copacetic wrote: »

audichris, just as a note, you mentioned earlier that the sline wasn't the 9k I thought but only 5k. I was on to my dealer again and they said it is 9k, that it is 5.5k for sline sport pack (interior pack + wheels). 1.5k for cheapest seats that you can order with this pack and 2k for the sline exterior pack. Are you still saying this is wrong?

Sorry, when I was answering, I was doing it from memory and in shorthand. Here's the detail!

Sports Pack is €4,979. It contains:
- Cast aluminium wheels, 8J x 18, in 5-spoke design, with 245 / 40 R 18 tyres
- S line sports suspension with more dynamic suspension tuning and lowered by 30 mm
- S line logos on the front wings
- Door sill trims with S line logo
- Front sports seats, with electric lumbar support for the front seats
- Interior and headlining in black with (QE) black stitching or (QF) silver stitching for the seat upholstery, steering wheel, gear lever gaiter and floor mats
- Inlays in Matt brushed aluminium including aluminium-look interior trim on the air vents, light switches and the electromechanical parking brake

Seats are from €1,389 to €3,519, depending on the finish you go for (from leather & cloth up to full Nappa). You have to pick a seat fabric to match the S-Line Sports Pack, cheapest cost is €1,389.

The S-Line Exterior package isn't available/buildable for the A4 yet, and pricing isn't available either.

As I said, I don't know how much the M-Tech pack is or what it includes, so I don't know I'm comparing like with like.

groupb

"The electromechanical parking brake" This sounds soooo much better than the plain old "parking brake" that the likes of renault has had for years. Hope this electromechanical wonder is not the same as the one in the passat which only works intermitiantly. You're not comparing like for like. A BMW is a proper prestige car that has substance beneath the veneer.

-Chris-

groupb wrote: »

"The electromechanical parking brake" This sounds soooo much better than the plain old "parking brake" that the likes of renault has had for years. Hope this electromechanical wonder is not the same as the one in the passat which only works intermitiantly. You're not comparing like for like. A BMW is a proper prestige car that has substance beneath the veneer.

Not helpful in any way to my query. Can you give me an idea of what's in the M-Tech pack so I can know (even for my own product knowledge) what's in it?

copacetic

AudiChris wrote: »

Sorry, when I was answering, I was doing it from memory and in shorthand. Here's the detail!

Sports Pack is €4,979. It contains:
- Cast aluminium wheels, 8J x 18, in 5-spoke design, with 245 / 40 R 18 tyres
- S line sports suspension with more dynamic suspension tuning and lowered by 30 mm
- S line logos on the front wings
- Door sill trims with S line logo
- Front sports seats, with electric lumbar support for the front seats
- Interior and headlining in black with (QE) black stitching or (QF) silver stitching for the seat upholstery, steering wheel, gear lever gaiter and floor mats
- Inlays in Matt brushed aluminium including aluminium-look interior trim on the air vents, light switches and the electromechanical parking brake

Seats are from €1,389 to €3,519, depending on the finish you go for (from leather & cloth up to full Nappa). You have to pick a seat fabric to match the S-Line Sports Pack, cheapest cost is €1,389.

The S-Line Exterior package isn't available/buildable for the A4 yet, and pricing isn't available either.

As I said, I don't know how much the M-Tech pack is or what it includes, so I don't know I'm comparing like with like.

cheers, apparently the 5.5k is for all the cars except the 1.8T so your price must be for the 1.8T?

Does your build rule show that you must order sport trim to add sline?

It sounds like the exterior pack will be at least 2k though based on that pricing?

the msport 318d is under 5k more than the SE @ 52,270 and includes:

double spoke 17 inch wheel.
blue shadow cloth/alcantara anthracite interior
aluminum glacier interior trim
anthracite headlining
high gloss shadowlin
m steering wheel
m sport logos on sills
m sport bodykit
m sport suspension
sports seats

on top of the se kit.

so basically similar to the sline exterior and interior kit and seats except with 17 inch wheels and about 4k cheaper as far as I can tell.

-Chris-

copacetic wrote: »

cheers, apparently the 5.5k is for all the cars except the 1.8T so your price must be for the 1.8T?

Yeah, optional extras pricing differs a little depending on whether you're in the 25% or 30% VRT band. Seeing as 80%+ of the A5s we sell will be 1.8T, I went with the pricing for that.

copacetic wrote: »

Does your build rule show that you must order sport trim to add sline?

Nope, the Sport model is merely a combination of extras that, if you order them all together, you get a price break. It's really a legitimate model, rather a generic spec (if you see what I mean).
You can put S-Line into any model.

copacetic wrote: »

It sounds like the exterior pack will be at least 2k though based on that pricing?

It was charged at €950 on the B7 A4, but that was probably to make the model more desirable as it was being replaced. I'm not here long enough to know what it cost before that, but €2k is plausible

copacetic wrote: »

the msport 318d is under 5k more than the SE @ 52,270 and includes:

double spoke 17 inch wheel.
blue shadow cloth/alcantara anthracite interior
aluminum glacier interior trim
anthracite headlining
high gloss shadowlin
m steering wheel
m sport logos on sills
m sport bodykit
m sport suspension
sports seats

on top of the se kit.

Cool, thanks for the info.

copacetic wrote: »

so basically similar to the sline exterior and interior kit and seats except with 17 inch wheels and about 4k cheaper as far as I can tell.

You're correct, looks like most of the S-Line interior and exterior packs together. Altogether it's costing probably €4,979 + €1,389 + €2,000est = €8,368, or €3,000 more than the MSport kit.
The wheels that the S-Line Sports Package puts into the car are 18" quattro GMBH alloys which on their own would cost €2,886 whereas the normal 17" upgrade is only €1,325 (yeah, yeah, another overpriced Audi extra ), so they probably account for some of the cost.

copacetic

well to be honest the annoying this is that if you were going sline you would really have to go for the RS4 style 19inchers!! as well which would add a bit, but the sline exterior kit isn't very different so you could maybe drop it. in fact the back bumper panel looks a bit funny imo when there isn't a split exhaust. the sline exterior kit should really include the split exhaust imo which would make a nice difference imo.

I like the sline interior of the audi above the bmw, but the price difference post july is going to be massive. eg audi 2.0TDI 140 SE with sline ~ 56,600? vrt comes down 10% to about €49,525k. 318d msport (includes SE spec) 52,700 comes down 14% in vrt so about €43,916.

Assuming bmw and audi both pass on full price savings. Thats a really big difference imo for cars that are very similar. I really don't know how they can compete with that kind of pricing difference as the 318d will also be half the cost to tax.
42,545.

-Chris-

copacetic wrote: »

but the price difference post july is going to be massive. eg audi 2.0TDI 140 SE with sline ~ 56,600? vrt comes down 10% to about €49,525k. 318d msport (includes SE spec) 52,700 comes down 14% in vrt so about €43,916.

Assuming bmw and audi both pass on full price savings.

Can I just ask the general populace (and I'll ask this in the VRT thread too, as it's kind of OT), does anyone really think that the pre-tax prices are going to stay the same??

I don't see how it's feasible.

---

From E92s figures the following is likely to happen (and E92 will readily accept that those figures are just an analysis of what should happen, not what will happen):

The Audi A6 2.0TFSI Manual will drop to €46,443
The Audi A6 2.0TFSI Auto will rise to €52,274

The Audi A6 2.0TDI Manual will drop to €44,984
The Audi A6 2.0TDI Auto will rise to €51,032

Where it used to cost €2,800 for auto in an Audi, it now costs circa €6,000!!!


The BMW 520d SE Manual will drop to €45,208
The BMW 525d SE Manual will drop to €59,454

Where it used to cost €10k to move up an engine size, it's now over €14k
I don't know what the effect of automatic will have on the price of the Beemers.


The BMW 325i SE Manual Saloon will drop from €52,850 to €48,678
The BMW 325i SE Manual Touring will drop from €54,850 to €53,326

Where it used to cost €2k to move into a Touring, now it's nearly €5k.
But if you're buying a 318i SE it changes from a €2k premium to only €1,850.

---

Ask yourself, if you were the Sales or Marketing Manager for either of these companies, would you allow anomalies like this to develop, or would you do a little pre-tax "tweaking"?
I expect there to be a lot of fiddling with figures (hopefully all profit neutral) to keep the model mixes consistent.

Biro

AudiChris wrote: »

Can I just ask the general populace (and I'll ask this in the VRT thread too, as it's kind of OT), does anyone really think that the pre-tax prices are going to stay the same??

Probably not.

AudiChris wrote: »

Ask yourself, if you were the Sales or Marketing Manager for either of these companies, would you allow anomalies like this to develop, or would you do a little pre-tax "tweaking"?
I expect there to be a lot of fiddling with figures (hopefully all profit neutral) to keep the model mixes consistent.

Profit neutral "tweaking" is not possible given the above price differences really, and anyway even if it was, they wouldn't buy into it.
But the point is that if you pollute more, then you pay more. An Auto pollute's more, therefore the aim of this whole tax move is to make the punter think twice about how badly he wants that auto box, seeing as he'll be doing more harm for the same mileage than he would if he were to use his left arm and leg a bit more.
If the dealer's try and alter the difference, then they're just going against the whole ethos of this new "law", and making a farce of it for their own profit, cause lets face it, that's what they'd alter it for.

Gegerty

Anyone know when the 2.0 TDI 120 bhp e is due to hit the shops and whether there'll be more powerful "e" models...if thats not a contradiction.

pburns

Gegerty wrote: »

Anyone know when the 2.0 TDI 120 bhp e is due to hit the shops and whether there'll be more powerful "e" models...if thats not a contradiction.

I'd say it's a contradicion - for the time being at least.

The fact that Audi have to launch special low-bhp 'e' models is a cop-out. BMW can maintain high bhp/low CO2, why can't Audi?

Also I see VAG have rehashed the tired old tractor engine that is the 1.9TDI and used it for the 'Bluemotion' sub-brand...

So despite the largely positive VRT changes the Irish will still plump in large droves for the noisy, low-powered, low-spec A4 model
- 'sure as long as it has a swanky badge to impress the neighbours what matter?':rolleyes: