god hates ireland??

robindch

Zulu wrote: »

Sorry robindch, I remember being taught a set of criteria a movement had to achieve, before it was considered a religion. (ie the difference between religions and cults).

Facetiously, I'd have said that a cult is a religion that's got less than 1,000 supporters and doesn't enjoy state support. I'd certainly like to hear a better definition than that

Pompey Magnus

Zulu wrote: »

All suicide bomber? Really? Care to actually prove that?

He said "tends to be", why claim that he implied all of them are educated? According to the Australian based Pakistani sociologist Dr Riaz Hassan about two thirds of the Palestinian suicide bombers were the equivalent of high school or university graduates.

link

Zulu

Wicknight wrote: »

Well done for completely missing my point :rolleyes:

Did I really? Are you not suggesting by that logic that we are in fact a product of our nurture?

Do you actually have a reason for being here Zulu or are you just looking for an argument?

With a comment like that I could well ask you the same - what is your reason for being here? are you just looking for an argument??

Zulu

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

He said "tends to be", why claim that he implied all of them are educated?

I didn't.

Dashticle

Atheist states have killed more people than the crusades, pogroms and the inquisitions put together.

Brutality is in human nature, as is religion. That does not mean that humans as a whole engage in brutality BECAUSE they are religious.

18AD

Dashticle wrote: »

Atheist states have killed more people than the crusades, pogroms and the inquisitions put together.

Brutality is in human nature, as is religion. That does not mean that humans as a whole engage in brutality BECAUSE they are religious.

It's actually because of the bread.

Zulu

I read the first artical there wicknight - it only proposes the the middle class are most effective, because they look less agressive. Interesting but it doesn't prove anything. I'll keep reading...

Dashticle

18AD wrote: »

It's actually because of the bread.

I don't get it.

__plec__

yeah,im really sorry,didnt have time to go into anything detailed as im meant to be working, next one will actually mean something, although i think with a group like this the best way to deal with them is ignore them, all they want is publicity to spread their 'word'. and they do this by creating scenes, getting people angry who in turn tell their friends etc about it. honestly they're not worth wasting time on

Zombrex

Zulu wrote: »

I read the first artical there wicknight - it only proposes the the middle class are most effective, because they look less agressive. Interesting but it doesn't prove anything. I'll keep reading...

Well how about you explain to me how someone "proves" that suicide bombers tend to be middle class, educated etc to your satisfaction Zulu

I mean are we talking about mathematical proof here? :rolleyes:

Zombrex

Zulu wrote: »

Did I really? Are you not suggesting by that logic that we are in fact a product of our nurture?

No, I'm not. I think you need to read my posts from the start.

Zombrex

Dashticle wrote: »

Brutality is in human nature

No actually, its not (see the articles I linked to a few posts ago).

It takes a lot to get a human to kill either himself or others. And a very strong motivating factor in this is religion, the conviction that this killing is just and that the killer will be rewarded by the supernatural.

Pompey Magnus

Zulu wrote: »

I didn't.

Just for the record:

Zulu wrote:

All suicide bomber? Really? Care to actually prove that?

18AD

Dashticle wrote: »

I don't get it.

No bother. It's just the notion that bread is responsible for most crime because all criminals eat bread.

Good luck.
AD.

Zombrex

Depeche_Mode wrote:

He said "tends to be", why claim that he implied all of them are educated?

Zulu wrote: »

I didn't.

Actually, you did

"All suicide bomber? Really?"

As Depeche_Mode points out I didn't say "all" suicide bombers, and used the term "tends to be" precises to avoid this kind of nonsense. :rolleyes:

You aren't doing very much to convince me that you want to seriously discuss this topic Zulu, as opposed to simply arguing with me for the fun of it.

Zombrex

18AD wrote: »

Because it says it explicitly in the bible as far as I'm aware...

And possibly in Islamic scripture.

I'm not sure either the Bible or the Quar'an "explicitly" state that all non-believers should be killed.

Do you have a reference for that?

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

The the simple fact is that he isn't. He is not a monster, or a brainwashed child. He is simply a believer.

There are just too many influencing factors in what makes someone a mass-murderer of innocent people to suggest that simply because they are religious, that any other religious person has the potential to do the same. It just seems to me to be a pointless comparison.

My aunt - a nun- worked on African missions for years. I guarantee you she wouldn't start blowing up abortion clinics at the behest of her order. And that's not just because of her lack or expertise in explosives.

Dashticle

It takes a lot to get a human to kill either himself or others. And a very strong motivating factor in this is religion, the conviction that this killing is just and that the killer will be rewarded by the supernatural.

Not necessarily religion. All armies condition soldiers to a certain amount of apathy towards killing and putting themselves in danger.

While it may take a lot for one human to kill another, large groups of humans, particularly organisations and countries find it very, very easy, and they don't always need religion's guidance to do it.

Zombrex

Dades wrote: »

There are just too many influencing factors in what makes someone a mass-murderer of innocent people to suggest that simply because they are religious, that any other religious person has the potential to do the same. It just seems to me to be a pointless comparison.

My aunt - a nun- worked on African missions for years. I guarantee you she wouldn't start blowing up abortion clinics at the behest of her order. And that's not just because of her lack or expertise in explosives.

Would she if God asked her to?

18AD

Wicknight wrote: »

I'm not sure either the Bible or the Quar'an "explicitly" state that all non-believers should be killed.

Do you have a reference for that?

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

For people of different religions:
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

Etc. Google churned out a load of results there.

Enjoy.
AD.

Dashticle

I'm not a bible scholar, but to me those quotes seem to only refer to Jews who decided to apostate two thousand years ago.

18AD

Dashticle wrote: »

I'm not a bible scholar, but to me those quotes seem to only refer to Jews who decided to apostate two thousand years ago.

Really? Fair enough.

All the best.
AD.

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

Would she if God asked her to?

TBH - no she wouldn't. She doesn't belong to a social network that glorifies and condones such action, and that would quell any personal doubts arising from her conscience.

And I deliberately didn't refer to being 'asked by God' for the reason that I suspect that the 'suggestion' to become a bomber comes from humans first and God second. Pawns in their jihad.

Zulu

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Just for the record:

Ah I see what you are talking about. Sorry perhaps I picked my words poorly there. The point I was trying to make is that it he appeared to be suggesting that the majority were educated, middle class, etc. etc. and that they weren't from disparate circumstances. To be honest I don't really believe this. And I was on one hand trying to ascertain was he talking about a certain sub section, or all of the suicide bombers.

As Depeche_Mode points out I didn't say "all" suicide bombers...

Well in fairness were you not making a comment that applied to all suicide bombers?

Wicknight wrote: »

Would she if God asked her to?

Through a human? ...actually, don't bother, forget I mentioned it.

You aren't doing very much to convince me that you want to seriously discuss this topic Zulu, as opposed to simply arguing with me for the fun of it.

That's fine Wicknight, if you can't be civil, I don't really want to discuss this topic any further with you either.

Dashticle

18AD wrote: »

Really? Fair enough.

All the best.
AD.

Yep, really. See "If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel" (the Jewish state) and "Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you" (not asking that all these people who worship other gods be killed, just that Jews turning to those other gods be punished [not that that's not a bad thing, it's just not AS bad as condoning religious genocide]).

That said, the first one does seem a bit ropey all right, but then again we must remember I guess that a lot of things are lost in translation as such.

And to the best of my knowledge there are no such sentiments in the New Testament.

18AD

Dashticle wrote: »

And to the best of my knowledge there are no such sentiments in the New Testament.

Google yields the fruit:

Ex.22:20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

Lev.24:16 "He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him."

lev 20:27 "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

Dashticle

The best of my knowlege has just been improved. I had better leave my familiar at home next time I go to Church, lest I be stoned.

That said, those who believe they have a familiar spirit are probably already pretty stoned anyway.

Dades

18AD wrote: »

Google yields the fruit...

I am far from a biblical scholar - but aren't they books of the Old Testament?

18AD

Dades wrote: »

I am far from a biblical scholar - but aren't they books of the Old Testament?

Why, yes, it most certainly could be.
Excuse my ignorance.
Is modern christianity based on the new testament alone?

Adios.
AD.

Pompey Magnus

18AD wrote: »

Is modern christianity based on the new testament alone?

Adios.
AD.

Only when it suits it to be.