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BBC’s ‘Ashes to Ashes’

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,036 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    mike65 wrote: »
    the Digitalspy site has collapsed!
    Probably due to the morons on there..

    .. I went on at 10pm on the dot:
    Errr.. I don't get it?
    Can someone explain the last 5 minutes?
    Save them Sam!
    I was on the phone... who's this Gene Hunt guy?
    So... I could understand everything up to the 'It's a Knockout' skit... anyone care to explain what happened after that?

    And my reaction..

    facepalm3.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,382 ✭✭✭Motley Crue




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,036 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    Would have loved a John Simm appearance... in some form or another! :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I'm glad reports of his apparence were wrong, it would have unbalnced the ending a bit. This was about Bolly, Chris, Ray and Shaz (and Gene who now has some iphone bothering goon to deal with!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,382 ✭✭✭Motley Crue


    Here's one thing for you, at one point Gene says his name is Nigel, and then says he's only joking....but....

    St Michael the Archangel is the Patron Saint of Policemen


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Well that was better than I expected - they did a damned good job with this and I felt the ending was very fitting! That Guardian article did a good job of summing it and I like the idea of Gene Hunt as a sort of lost soul helping out other coppers. Fine performances all round too - their reactions to their deaths were particularly moving (esp. Montserrat's Shaz).

    Now I believe they had this ending in mind all along but... why was Gene in Sam's past as we saw in Season 1? He is some sort of guardian sure but how did she see him in her past?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 EveS


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2010/may/21/ashes-to-ashes-final-episode
    Interview with the creator in the Guardian gives a nice explanation...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,036 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    EveS wrote: »
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2010/may/21/ashes-to-ashes-final-episode
    Interview with the creator in the Guardian gives a nice explanation...
    Great in-depth interview to be honest..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    Here's one thing for you, at one point Gene says his name is Nigel, and then says he's only joking....but....

    St Michael the Archangel is the Patron Saint of Policemen

    I don't get the link between Michael and Nigel??...
    ixoy wrote: »
    I believe they had this ending in mind all along but... why was Gene in Sam's past as we saw in Season 1? He is some sort of guardian sure but how did she see him in her past?

    You mean Alex yea?....isn't it Genes' world?....it all turns out to be his story and it goes how he wants it to so he can get them where they need to go.....that's what I got from it anyway.

    I thought it was a nice touch to not have the intro voiceover or even opening credits.....it felt like a stand alone epilogue.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭8mv


    Started following this series late, but loved it. Some day I'll go back to LOM and enjoy the whole thing.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    You mean Alex yea?....isn't it Genes' world?....it all turns out to be his story and it goes how he wants it to so he can get them where they need to go.....that's what I got from it anyway.
    Yeah I meant Alex :o I'm not sure I buy that though - Gene doesn't change their memories, he only watches them forget after which they create new memories, assembling a life for themselves. Unless Alex did it herself sometime. I mean it does fit into the idea of him as a guardian, but it just seems more inconsistent with what others saw / remembered.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    ixoy wrote: »
    Yeah I meant Alex :o I'm not sure I buy that though - Gene doesn't change their memories, he only watches them forget after which they create new memories, assembling a life for themselves. Unless Alex did it herself sometime. I mean it does fit into the idea of him as a guardian, but it just seems more inconsistent with what others saw / remembered.


    I agree..I just think that any inconsistencies are now redundant once we know it is all Gene Hunts creation and it's purpose....that is shown at the end when it segued into "where is my iphone"...and Gene,having gone through something of a trauma in mere mortal terms.....just get's on with it and repeats his first line from Life On Mars...."a word in your shell like pal"..........and hopefully battered the lad...

    ....just twigged....I posted about the Quattro that Gene is now in the present and would need an up to date car.......of course he isn't in the present.....it's the present dead copper that is in the past!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,382 ✭✭✭Motley Crue


    There is no link between the two names, but i wonder if the writers meant for him to be called michael as gene does at the end appear to take on the role of the saint for policemen!

    Btw, Keats was amazing, Daniel May is fab!!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Why did he bring them back to different decades? Sam was brought back to the '70s to resolve father issues and Alex to the '80s to solve her parent's death. But Shaz was from the '90s so why take her to the '80s when she was a teenager?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Ann22


    I'm just after watching... I'm a turmoil of emotions....I wanted Gene to join them in the pub:(:(:(. That Jim weirdo gave me the creeps there at the end! Poor Alex! Btw..The bit at the end of the last series when she woke up in the real world. Did she really wake up then only to die later, I wonder? Brilliant series!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    I found it a bit of a disappointing ending, but that Guardian article helps sum it up.

    It's all a bit sad. End of an era

    Gene contemplating a diesel motor.....:eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭ToniTuddle


    Gene ages.

    Like he died in 1953 when he was just new to the job so he would have been about what....18 or so?
    Fast forward to this and he would be/is 48

    Wonder will he keep aging :eek:


    Or did he make himself look in the image he wanted and has been like that since he died...


    Definitely buying the box sets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    There is no link between the two names, but i wonder if the writers meant for him to be called michael as gene does at the end appear to take on the role of the saint for policemen!

    Btw, Keats was amazing, Daniel May is fab!!


    I understand...and yea Daniel Mays was awesome...I rad an interview with him where he said they told him he would be on the fringe but it'll be worth it...I think he made the right choice!!
    ixoy wrote: »
    Why did he bring them back to different decades? Sam was brought back to the '70s to resolve father issues and Alex to the '80s to solve her parent's death. But Shaz was from the '90s so why take her to the '80s when she was a teenager?

    From the last scene I got the impression Gene had no control of the time or place.....he knows everything and just plods along......His main concern is not remebering his own past......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭cjmcork


    aw lads, I really enjoyed it, I will need to watch it again cos I was bawling by the time it was over..............poor Gene left on his own.............didn't want Alex to go in the end


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    From the last scene I got the impression Gene had no control of the time or place.....he knows everything and just plods along......His main concern is not remebering his own past......
    That's fair enough. He ages as he progresses through his unresolved issues, so he's got a fixed time line of his own. Will he get redeemed before he gets too old? Or does he age? Was he even married?

    From reading around, the ending seems to have been generally well received. I reckon it's more satisfying than the ending a certain other show is going to give us in under 72 hours!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    What happened to Annie from Life on Mars? She doesn't seem to get a resolution.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    ixoy wrote: »
    That's fair enough. He ages as he progresses through his unresolved issues, so he's got a fixed time line of his own. Will he get redeemed before he gets too old? Or does he age? Was he even married?
    iver
    From reading around, the ending seems to have been generally well received. I reckon it's more satisfying than the ending a certain other show is going to give us in under 72 hours!

    I am a fan of that show too and I concur that it will not wrap up with such satisfaction....I have ep 2 of the last series of Ashes to Ashes on in the backgroud and Shaz just freaked over a screwdriver....never even spotted that first time around.......difference between UK and US tv writers is not feeling the need to spoonfeed the audience!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭The Maverick


    What happened to Annie from Life on Mars? She doesn't seem to get a resolution.

    I think it was implied that Gene brought her and Sam to the pub together and they moved on.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    I have ep 2 of the last series of Ashes to Ashes on in the backgroud and Shaz just freaked over a screwdriver....never even spotted that first time around
    Neat! It'd be really impressive if we could find such references in earlier seasons of the show though.

    I also like how other things make sense now. For example, why we never saw visions of Molly like we did in earlier seasons - Alex is dead so Molly can't talk to her comatose body as she did in the first two seasons. We also understand why she gradually tried less and less to get home, as did Sam.
    .......difference between UK and US tv writers is not feeling the need to spoonfeed the audience!!
    Yep, which is why we're musing over the details. I fear with "Lost" though, people will be struggling to find answers where there aren't any at all!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭TPD


    Just finished watching it. I guess Keats was taking anyone who dies to hell, hence all the dying person cradling he was up to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭MoodeRator


    LOVED that the Railway Arms tuned out to be heaven! and the barman is St Peter! what a way to go:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭MoodeRator


    basquille wrote: »
    Would have loved a John Simm appearance... in some form or another! :(
    totally agree Basq! it was the only thing missing for me! But if the Railway Arms is going to be my heaven then I am happy out!:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    basquille wrote: »
    Would have loved a John Simm appearance... in some form or another! :(


    The writers felt he would steal the lead actress thunder and didn't think it would make sense to bring him back. This and other stuff is explained here.
    So now we know. In a bittersweet final visit to Fenchurch East, Gene Hunt – the Guv – was revealed to be a young rookie PC, shot dead on Coronation Day in 1953; the ghost copper buried in a shallow Lancashire grave who has been haunting DI Alex Drake in the final series. Viewers who suspected that all the CID characters in 1983 were already dead had their theories confirmed: Ray hanged himself; Chris was a young uniformed PC shot dead; Shaz was stabbed by a young would-be car thief. And then, of course, there's Alex, the comatose modern-day cop, struggling to get back to her daughter.

    "The place that Alex finds herself in is a plane between heaven and Earth," explains Ashes co-creator Matthew Graham, who wrote the final episode, speaking for the first time about the secrets of the drama. "When we discussed the philosophy behind it we decided that, seeing as how the cosmos was infinite, everybody who dies can afford to go to some kind of purgatory plane that is relevant and significant to them. So we liked the idea that coppers with issues would go to a place designed for coppers. And a coppers' paradise surely has to be The Sweeney, or The French Connection if you're an American. That's the place where you've got all the freedoms and, therefore, all the chances to make all the big mistakes that could lead you to hell. But all the good decisions would lead you to heaven."

    Through five series, Hunt's role in this police purgatory has been that of an archangel saving souls – with DCI Jim Keats, the gatekeeper to hell or the devil himself, appearing in this series as his nemesis. So did Hunt have his own police hotline to God? "We both agreed that Gene isn't appointed by anyone," says Graham. "He has done this for himself. He's re-invented himself and built a world that is very potent and real that draws others in. But Gene doesn't know he's doing it. He doesn't go off into a room on his own and talk to God. He just obeys some animal spiritual instinct inside him."

    The clues to the mystery at the centre of Ashes to Ashes and its predecessor Life on Mars were seeded throughout the series. "Ashley [Pharoah, the co-creator] never wanted the ending to be unguessable because that would be a cheat," says Graham. So at the start of this final series, a digital clock turning to 9:06 recorded the moment DI Drake died in her hospital bed – the choice of numbers was a random decision when writing at his computer, although later his mother reminded him that was the time he was born. "We always knew Alex wasn't coming back," Graham says, explaining there were only ever three endings: that she woke up, she woke up and chose to go back again, or she died. The first was dismissed because "we didn't think anyone would want that because we didn't want that with Sam", and the second because "we did that in Life On Mars". Which left only the final option. "If she could flit about and go home when she wanted to, when it suited us, it would then feel slightly too much like Alice In Wonderland," Graham says. "Whereas in this, it is Alice In Wonderland. But Alice doesn't get to go home."

    Hunt's storyline has also been alluded to throughout the drama – you'll remember that he has been seen cradling dying coppers. "We didn't want anything to come too much out of left field, except that maybe Gene's a kid," Graham says. Hunt had forgotten his previous life as a "skinny lad" gunned down during his first week on the beat, until DI Drake unearthed his grave near Hyde. Gene's "carefully constructed world" was then temporarily demolished by Keats, as he smashed up Hunt's CID office to reveal the hidden universe all around.

    As Hunt led his team to their corner of paradise – Life on Mars's police local, the Railway Arms – original Mars barman Nelson, a spirit guide in more ways than one, was there to meet them. Meanwhile Hunt returned to his CID world to greet another confused modern-day detective in a mirror of Sam Tyler's arrival in the very first episode of Life On Mars.

    There had, of course, been intense speculation about whether Simm would reprise his role as Tyler for the conclusion of the sequel. And Graham and Pharoah did give it consideration: "There was originally a version where John came back. It was never scripted but it was storylined," Graham says. "John was going to come out of the Railway Arms instead of Nelson. Everyone seemed to really like it. We were all quite happy and excited about it.

    "Then we suddenly thought that it would steal all of Keeley's thunder, it would undermine Ashes as a show and also Sam's supposed to be dead, so he should be in heaven. It suddenly made him seem like a superhero – he could go from purgatory to heaven and back again. So we decided not to do that." They didn't approach Simm, then? "We never asked him."

    And so, finally, after two series of Life on Mars and three of Ashes to Ashes, Gene Hunt's story has been told. But the show's co-creators and writers spent eight years in their own purgatory, developing Mars before it was finally commissioned by the BBC. The result has been a complex drama, stuffed with references: Alice In Wonderland and CS Lewis's Narnia books have been influences, along with The Wizard Of Oz.

    Fans who agonised over the significance of Alex Drake's ruby red shoes, however, will be surprised to hear that they were simply a joke on the part of costume designer Rosie Hackett: "There's also a bit of Paradise Lost going on in there," adds Graham. "With Jim and Gene you've got two men, one of whom (Hunt) doesn't know what he represents, and the other (Keats) who absolutely does know what he represents but wants to trick the other one by pretending to be less powerful than he is. I wanted to find almost a modern version of a Milton-esque poetry to it, particularly in the way Keats talks."

    Some viewers may have been too busy enjoying Hunt's politically incorrect ways to notice. The gruff Gary Cooper fan surprised his creators by sparking the passion of some female viewers – there's even an online group called Hunt's Housewives – the admiration of some men, and leaving others obsessed with Gene and Alex's (or Galex's) relationship. "I'm still amazed that girls find it romantic, this big hulking bloke in a dated suit, that there could be anything even closely resembling a sex symbol," Graham says. "I find that baffling. It's great but I just don't understand it."

    So what next for the pair? Talking to Graham ahead of the final episode, he says he will have been watching it this evening with Pharoah and the show's producers at his home: "We're going to have some cold beef salad and some champagne and just raise a glass to it." Visitors will have to mind Sam Tyler's headstone, which sits at the top of the stairs, now flanked with the Gene Genie's snakeskin boots. For his part, Pharoah has the Railway Arms pub sign and is about to take delivery of one of the bullet-ridden doors from Hunt's Audi Quattro.

    And it will surely be a relief for the pair that the ending that was plotted right at the very beginning of Life on Mars has finally been revealed. "It's been hard keeping the secret," Graham admits, "even my family didn't know. I don't tell them anything. So they know nothing in advance. It is an emotional ending. I guess we very rarely finish a show, where you really know that you are saying goodbye to a group of people."

    So Gene Hunt will definitely not be returning to television? No, says Graham he will not. Although, "if Hollywood came calling ..."

    Guardian.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 302 ✭✭Sidney77


    2 plotholes

    1. If its purgatory how can sam have committed suicide
    2. If Ray is in Genes world in 73 and 83 how can he have died on jubilee day in 1977

    emotional ending but was expecting a Tyler appearance. was expecting more twists but like the unpredictable ending


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭MoodeRator


    Sidney77 wrote: »
    2 plotholes

    1. If its purgatory how can sam have committed suicide
    2. If Ray is in Genes world in 73 and 83 how can he have died on jubilee day in 1977

    emotional ending but was expecting a Tyler appearance. was expecting more twists but like the unpredictable ending

    Did Sam not actuallt wake form his coma "real time" and then chose to die "again"?
    And thank you for the point on Ray! I have been arguing ever since on that point!
    I dont get why Simms was on spotted on location filming for hte series yet never showed!!! bit of a pizzer for me!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭MoodeRator


    But I have to say after years of watching the TV that Gene is THE best character EVER!

    Loved the "he killed the Quattro" scene!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Jessibelle


    Jim Keats' end laugh will haunt my dreams *shudders*


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grenache wrote: »
    I've only watched a few episodes of season two and one episode of this last series so i'm not gonna watch any more episodes as it will spoil it for me. I bought Series 1 Box Set in Nottingham during the week for £15, bargain! Interesting that Series 2 is priced at £30 though.

    You got ripped off, both seasons in one handy box here for 17.89.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31 Static Jak


    Wait a second.

    So if Jim Keats was the Devil, does that mean he was also Frank Morgan near the end of Life on Mars?
    6a00c2252293c4604a01101684e0f9860d-500pi

    For those who don't remember, Frank Morgan took over as DCI near the end while Hunt was accused of murder. Turns out Frank is undercover to expose the corruption of Gene Hunt and his team. Sound familiar?
    And then he tells Sam that he suffered amnesia in a car crash a few years back and that he isn't dead or in a coma.
    And when Sam does "wake up" guess who's his surgeon. Frank of course. Seems to me Frank was the Devil again trying to use Sam.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just watched it there now......Just not the ending i had hoped for unfortunately.

    for those who may not have seen it
    some of ye seen the heaven and hell thing coming with a while maybe just mixing up the devil and god though
    I was adamant that maybe this world was 'real' (at least within the 4 walls of tv land anyway).
    how did Chris, Shaz and Ray just forget their previous lives?

    I mean Chris and Shaz were discussing where to sit their relatives at their wedding the last series and now it turns out they are in same predicament as alex and sam???? explain that someone.

    RIP Alex and the Quattro.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    TPD wrote: »
    Just finished watching it. I guess Keats was taking anyone who dies to hell, hence all the dying person cradling he was up to.

    Gene talking to Martin Summers last season was very similar to Keats ritual with Viv and the other female copper which makes sense.

    Frank Morgan might be another 'Angel' if you like trying to bring Sam back to life whereas Keats was trying to bring the team to hell.

    So was the railway arms in London at the end? Part of genes constructed world? the Italian lad Luigi had sold up and moved away of course.

    Was it Jubilee day 1977 or Coronation day 1953 Ray died on?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,382 ✭✭✭Motley Crue


    Sidney77 wrote: »
    1. If its purgatory how can sam have committed suicide

    Sam committed suicide in the real world. He then returned to Hunt, lived out his time with him, and when he knew he had to move on to heaven Hunt brought him to the pub
    Sidney77 wrote: »
    2. If Ray is in Genes world in 73 and 83 how can he have died on jubilee day in 1977

    Ray died in 1977 but I think Life On Mars was a world created for Sam...not Ray, because Sam was the focus since we couldn't forget who he was and where he'd come from...1973 made sense because Ray would have been a copper then and it also made sense for Sam in terms of what happened with his family
    "There was originally a version where John came back. It was never scripted but it was storylined," Graham says. "John was going to come out of the Railway Arms instead of Nelson. Everyone seemed to really like it. We were all quite happy and excited about it.

    OK, that's al-right

    But....just one last question, what about when those guys from Life On Mars showed up, and when that Journalist from Life On Mars showed up...I mean, she knew Sam Tyler and Annie and wrote his eulogy (her words) so is she and the guys from Life On Mars simply helpers....helpers for the cause....

    Also, in SE1 or 2 of Life On Mars there's the appearance of Harry Wolf, apparently a man who was Gene's mentor, and Harry turns out to be corrupt. Is this a representation of Gene's mentor in real life who took a back hander and was corrupt?

    Also, was Gene even IN the Navy, have an alcoholic father and a drug pushing brother named Stuart? If he was 19 in 1953 then he certainly didn't do National Service and could have been more a composite of himself and his father...in real life

    And probably most importantly, if Gene was shot in 1953, he missed out on the fact that John Wayne did some of his best work - the Quiet Man aside - prior to that year...was more pity for him really


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,537 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    I felt a bit like basquille last night - disappointed. The whole scene in the cottage went right over my head, I had no idea what was going on. On reflection, I think the disappointment of no Sam Tyler/Alex Drake face-to-face clouded my opinion (lets face it, everyone wanted to see Sam again, so it was a bit of a let down in that regard).

    Having slept on it, I can't imagine ending it any differently. It was clever, poignant and well realised. I watched it again this morning (which I rarely do with any show) and I applaud Ashley Pharoah and Matthew Graham for a very satisfying ending (and more so because they managed to keep it secret right up until the end).

    In hindsight (and after a good nights sleep), its up there with the Life on Mars ending.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,036 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    Completely agree Dave. I feel better about the episode on hindsight and The Guardian article does help.

    In fact, the girlfriend was out last night.. and didn't get to see it. So I'm planning on giving it a rewatch today.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭branners69


    Very enjoyable final season to Ashes to Ashes, fairplay to all involved at the BBC.

    Daniel Mays was sensational and Gene Hunt is and always will be a legend!

    I have to say my heart sank when I saw on the same night they have launched the new Big Brother eye, gems like Ashes to Ashes dont get funding but sh1te like Big Brother and that Wizard of Oz crap does?? Madness!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,537 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Ashes to Ashes was always a finite show, branners. They had an ending in mind and stuck to it. Dragging it out over more series would have diluted it completely - instead we have a fully fleshed out, timeless and complete show that we can look back on with fondness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭branners69


    Mr E wrote: »
    Ashes to Ashes was always a finite show...

    Agreed, but my point was how many of these shows dont get commissioned because the BBC are spending €15k plus on shoes for Over the Rainbow?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭Ann22


    Ah no, it'd be sh*t if there was no ending to it or went on for ages with viewers getting fed up..like Lost. I love Gene's character, I'll miss it a lot. Great screen presence, cool as fcuk.

    I hate 'Over the Rainbow'...they all look and sound the same and their desperation to outsing each other is a bit sad. However I passionately love Big Brother:o...Shows like that raise loads of dosh.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I felt while LOM and Ashes to Ashes were both excellent, the Ashes to Ashes ending let the series down a bit. Just think it left a few more questions then answers.

    I did think it was funny the way Gene went into the prison without riot gear some weeks back and didn't get a belt of one missile which were absolutely raining down on the riot squad + the way he drives the quattro around London like a man possessed. Made me think, is he invincible?

    Then again what about the LOM finale? What would have happened to Gene, Ray, Annie, Chris and the team if Sam didn't come back. Would Keats or similar have taken their bodies had they been shot? Or had that moment in time been freezed until Sam felt he was Ready to join 'that world' again?

    Overall a great bit of television, Kudo's to the Beeb. and as some suggested it wasn't overly drawn out like 'Lost'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    Overall a great bit of television, Kudo's to the Beeb.

    Kudos to Kudos.:)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Sidney77 wrote: »
    2 plotholes

    1. If its purgatory how can sam have committed suicide

    Who said it was a christian purgatory? Its just a place between heaven and earth, even calling the it heaven may not be right, having heaven as a pub where the police go to drink and relax after a hard job puts me more in mind of Valhalla.
    Sidney77 wrote: »
    2. If Ray is in Genes world in 73 and 83 how can he have died on jubilee day in 1977

    Genes world doesn't actually tie in with real world time, so I dont thinks its an issue. Besides, one of teh points of the last episode was that they had all forgotten they had died anyway, so it would be no bother to Ray that he was still alive in 1983 (that is, until Keats started to break the group away from Genes control)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Static Jak wrote: »
    Wait a second.

    So if Jim Keats was the Devil, does that mean he was also Frank Morgan near the end of Life on Mars?
    6a00c2252293c4604a01101684e0f9860d-500pi

    For those who don't remember, Frank Morgan took over as DCI near the end while Hunt was accused of murder. Turns out Frank is undercover to expose the corruption of Gene Hunt and his team. Sound familiar?
    And then he tells Sam that he suffered amnesia in a car crash a few years back and that he isn't dead or in a coma.
    And when Sam does "wake up" guess who's his surgeon. Frank of course. Seems to me Frank was the Devil again trying to use Sam.

    Didn't Frank Morgan want to take Sam to Hull? Or did he say he was from Hull? I seem to remeber something to do with Hull, maybe I'm wrong though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    some of ye seen the heaven and hell thing coming with a while maybe just mixing up the devil and god though
    I was adamant that maybe this world was 'real' (at least within the 4 walls of tv land anyway).
    how did Chris, Shaz and Ray just forget their previous lives?

    I mean Chris and Shaz were discussing where to sit their relatives at their wedding the last series and now it turns out they are in same predicament as alex and sam???? explain that someone.

    They didn't want to deal with their deaths I think was the problem. Chris was stuck wanting to impress his senior officer, Ray wanted to feel better about being a copper instead of being a soldier and Shaz just panics at the thought of not seeing her mum. I think that Genes world being so complete and so dominant (because of Genes personality) helps them to forget, while Alex and Sam where better equipped (for whatever reason), to question the situation.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,605 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    My understanding was that Shaz, Ray and Chris were dead and thus had no memory of their "real" life until they were reminded by Keats. Sam and Alex didn't die, but rather were in comas, near death. This meant their memory wasn't obscured; they could remember cause they were on the brink of death, unlike others.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My understanding was that Shaz, Ray and Chris were dead and thus had no memory of their "real" life until they were reminded by Keats. Sam and Alex didn't die, but rather were in comas, near death. This meant their memory wasn't obscured; they could remember cause they were on the brink of death, unlike others.

    That's a good credible theory. What happens to a cop ala Martin Summers or Viv when they die in the afterlife?

    EDIT: Im just relieved we didn't get the
    Astronauts
    like the bullsh*t American Life on Mars so i suppose it wasnt such a bad ending


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