Dogs and Pigs

Jannah

As for pigs, they are haram to eat, along with animals with claws or canine teeth such as dogs, cats, etc but pigs are especially bad because they are seen as dirty and impure because they are fed really disgusting scraps of everything and anything and live in filth. For any Christians on this site, pork is SUPPOSED to not be consumed by them either as Jesus- and all Jews for that matter- also believe and this belief has been carried forward in holy scriptures such as the bible.

wes

caoibhin wrote: »

Why is this? Is there any historical/Social explanation for this religious observance?

Jannah, answered the question more or less from a religious pov.

As for the historical/social reasons, I honestly can't remember off the top of my head.

DinoBot

Jannah wrote: »

however, whether it would be immoral greatly depends on who you ask and their culture.

So, I'll ask you and your culture. Do you think it an immoral act.

Time and time again we are asked to ignore or moral compass for the greater good of religion.

Jannah

DinoBot wrote: »

So, I'll ask you and your culture. Do you think it an immoral act.

Time and time again we are asked to ignore or moral compass for the greater good of religion.

I think that in their society, it was a moral act.
I think that in today's society, if would be considered an immoral act.

I am not "Ignoring my moral compass", I simply have the maturity to see that times have changed and moved on, yet that doesn't mean we can just look back on the past with disgust and contempt and completely out of context.

garth-marenghi

Muhammad (pbuh) 'liking cats' is one thing, but to outrightedly say that he bathed in the same water as cats, is blasphemous.[/quote]

Didnt mean to offend anyone, Was just looking for information on what i read from people who are more knowledgeable on the subject than i am

Splendour

Jannah wrote: »

As for pigs, they are haram to eat, along with animals with claws or canine teeth such as dogs, cats, etc but pigs are especially bad because they are seen as dirty and impure because they are fed really disgusting scraps of everything and anything and live in filth. For any Christians on this site, pork is SUPPOSED to not be consumed by them either as Jesus- and all Jews for that matter- also believe and this belief has been carried forward in holy scriptures such as the bible.

God commanded Jews in the old testament not to eat pork, but after the death and resurrection of Jesus this all changed.

Colossians 2:13-17

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

14 having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


Obviously Jews still observe this law.

Caoimhín

wes wrote: »

Jannah, answered the question more or less from a religious pov.

As for the historical/social reasons, I honestly can't remember off the top of my head.

Right, so its just that God said not to?
Still doesn't explain to me the social/historical reasons that some religions have an aversion to pigs.
Is it that they are a bit too human like, pink flesh, quite intelligent.

wes

caoibhin wrote: »

Right, so its just that God said not to?

Thats Religion for you.

caoibhin wrote: »

Still doesn't explain to me the social/historical reasons that some religions have an aversion to pigs.
Is it that they are a bit too human like, pink flesh, quite intelligent.

I haven't the slightest idea if thats the case.

Jannah

pipsss wrote: »

so muslims dont like pigs and dogs because they regard them as dirty filthy animals who live in dirty filthy smelly conditions,then why is it that most muslims i know (and i know a lot as i work in an industry which is predominately run by asians/muslims)dirty filthy and smelly????

Wow, you must be terribly ignorant to generalise millions of people. I have never in my life met a fellow muslim who has been anything other than immaculate. It is part of salah (prayer) to perform wudu which is basically the washing of the face, arms up to elbows and feet- it is ######### to touch to Qur'an without washing your hands first and women who have been menstruating must bathe fully after their period before they pray or touch the Qur'an again. Muslim males are circumcised in the interest of hygiene. Removal of armpit and pubic hair is a recommended practice in Islam for both men and women. In Islam, cleanliness plays a key role.

Seriously, if you've come to this page just to bitch about muslims, you must have a pretty pathetic existance.

DinoBot

Jannah wrote: »

I think that in their society, it was a moral act.
I think that in today's society, if would be considered an immoral act.

I am not "Ignoring my moral compass", I simply have the maturity to see that times have changed and moved on, yet that doesn't mean we can just look back on the past with disgust and contempt and completely out of context.

So by todays set of moral standards the Prophet would not rate too high as a moral person ?? Why then is his every word and action rated so high ? Or do you switch on your maturity to help you decide ?

And if your saying it would be considered an immoral act in today's society, under what set of Islamic laws would make it an immoral act today ? Because I would say none and it is in fact because of secular law that provides this safety to children, not religious law.

Jannah

Muhammad (pbuh) is rated highly because he delivered the word of Allah to us, plain and simple.

I am not an expert in Shari'a law, DinoBot, and neither are you, so you will have to check with an Iman to find out current laws. But as far as I know, once a person is married they can have sex no matter what the age they are in Saudi Arabia, but when I was referring to it not being moral in todays society, I was speaking specifically about Ireland.

When it comes down to it, marriage has to be consented by both parties and 'forced' marriages are not allowed. Whoever asked for their hand in marriage is asked once if they wish to marry this person at their Nikah and the other person who marriage was proposed to is asked if they want to marry them three times.

I cannot say that immoral things don't happen in Islamic society, but I cannot say that immoral things don't happen in Irish society either.

DinoBot

Jannah wrote: »

Muhammad (pbuh) is rated highly because he delivered the word of Allah to us, plain and simple.

I am not an expert in Shari'a law, DinoBot, and neither are you, so you will have to check with an Iman to find out current laws. But as far as I know, once a person is married they can have sex no matter what the age they are in Saudi Arabia, but when I was referring to it not being moral in todays society, I was speaking specifically about Ireland.

.

My point exactly, its the Irish, non-Islamic, non-Allah believing law that offers the child protection. Not the words or actions of Muhammad.

Jannah wrote: »

nce a person is married they can have sex no matter what the age they are in Saudi Arabia, but when I was referring to it not being moral in todays society, I was speaking specifically about Ireland

So is this act moral in Saudi Arabia then ?

Jannah

DinoBot wrote: »

My point exactly, its the Irish, non-Islamic, non-Allah believing law that offers the child protection. Not the words or actions of Muhammad.



So is this act moral in Saudi Arabia then ?

Child abuse can occur in any society, as we well know. Ireland in particular is a hideous example of retaining children's rights, as we have seen with the abuse of children in institutions belonging to the Catholic church. One must have reached puberty before a marriage can be consumated, and there is no question that it must be consentual, so therefore yes, I would consider it moral.

I know many Irish teenagers who are sexually active at 14 and 15, thus proving that a legal age of consent means nothing in Ireland. Personally, I would far prefer someone to consumate a marriage at a young age than to have multiple partners from a young age and risk contracting STDs and STIs.

DinoBot

Jannah wrote: »

Child abuse can occur in any society, as we well know. Ireland in particular is a hideous example of retaining children's rights, as we have seen with the abuse of children in institutions belonging to the Catholic church. One must have reached puberty before a marriage can be consumated, and there is no question that it must be consentual, so therefore yes, I would consider it moral.

I know many Irish teenagers who are ########## at 14 and 15, thus proving that a legal age of consent means nothing in Ireland. Personally, I would far prefer someone to be ########## in a marriage at a young age than to have multiple partners from a young age and risk contracting STDs and STIs.

So, now Im confused. So you DONT consider it an immoral act to marry a child then. ..................but you still equate it with child abuse !! Plus, there is a big difference with being sexually active with your peers than married to a man old enough to be your father. Which would you prefer for your 9yr old daughter ??

Jannah

I have sources that say that the legal age for marriage in Algeria, Bangladesh and Somalia is 18, in the Lebanon, Syria and Tunisia it's 17, in Indonesia, Egypt, Malaysia, Pakistan and Yemen its 16 and in Muslim countries where family law has been implemented it is 15. All in all, if a girl is mature enough to enter into a marriage contract knowingly and with full consent, and when it is only consumated at the onset of puberty, I find it perfectly moral. Child abuse is forcing a child to have sex at a time when they are not ready or do not consent it, which is a completely different situation entirely.

This type of marriage was not invented by Islam and during bibical times the age at which a person could marry was at puberty. Mary, the mother of Jesus, gave birth to him some time between the ages of 11-14, yet nobody criticises the fact that she was married to Joseph (her uncle) at this age? At puberty, under Islamic Law a person is legally responsible for all decisions they make. Here are some qur'anic verses you may find interesting:

"Do not inherit women against their will" (4:19)

"A girl [who was not married] came to the Messenger of God and mentioned that her father had married her against her will so the Prophet allowed her to excercise her choice." (Abu Da'us, on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas)

DinoBot

Jannah wrote: »

By today's standards such an act would be ILLEGAL,

Your words not mine :rolleyes:

I see your point. As long as the nine year old approves of marrying the 49yr old man its okay. Thats cleared up for me now. Thanks!

Jannah

Yes, and I don't take back saying that sleeping with or marrying a nine year old would be illegal in this country. That is the law and that's just how it is.

On the whole I really do believe that Islam's teaching in regards to marriage is the right way as it practically obliterates the huge numbers of unplanned pregnancy that can be seen across the western world, not to mind the diseases caused by such promiscuity.

You obviously don't agree, and thats fine too, but we're all entitled to follow our own beliefs without having a major person in our religion dismissed as being a 'paedophile' just because they don't understand the culture of the time.

Jannah

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tn5geSNGd8w&feature=related

Here's a brilliant way of making it easier for people to understand

DinoBot

Jannah wrote: »

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tn5geSNGd8w&feature=related

Here's a brilliant way of making it easier for people to understand

I think the only problem is that Islamic law has not moved away from this. I think that it would be very difficult to outlaw the practice of child marriages simply because its something the prophet did.