Drivers Indicating a Gardai Speedcheck

Esel

Hey LuckyStar, how's the car going these days?

TheNog

bman wrote: »

Bit of a hijack here but not worth starting a thread to get this answered. If the guards are checking speed and you're over the limit will they always stop you there and then? Or can it be sent through in the post? The odd time I see them I'm not sure if I slow down to below the limit in time and it'd be good to know that I won't be getting a surprise through the post in a few weeks!

The guards don't have to stop you at all. Same goes for mobile phone use, overtaking on continuous single/double line etc. The registered owner will get the fine in the post and it is up to him/her to give up the driver at the time

TheNog

Niall1234 wrote: »

Again though, shouldn't the RSA be doing something about educating our drivers better instead of treating us like fools regarding the speed line.

The speeding issue is part of a bigger picture regarding our driving habits. There was ads on the TV about tailgating too. I would presume there are short and long term plans for the RSA. Short term plans would probably include cutting our speed and tailgating which we have already seen on TV.

Educating drivers properly would be a long term plan. People have accumulated bad habits over the years which need to be weeded out.

Successive governments have always dragged their heels in relation to road safety and I think it is basically down to votes/popularity. Road safety has been ignored for so long that a great number of road users cannot drive properly or safely so if the government did finally crack down on them they would/could lose votes or popularity. Plus the amount of money that would need to be spent to educate drivers properly would be massive. Instead the government has allowed the guards to carry the can and get the blame from convicted/frustrated road users.

I feel that for the long term every driver with a full licence should be re-tested every 5 years. If they fail the test then no more full licence and they can start back at provisional level. Same goes for penalty points and other driving convictions such as drunk driving or dangerous. It should be mandatory to have your licence taken off and have to resit the test.

Back on topic, the flashing for checkpoints really is a silly thing to do. As Looney pointed out a checkpoint is not only used for detecting road traffic offences.

LuckyStar

I wouldn't flash anyone to warn them of a checkpoint, let them get caught speeding I say!

I will flash people at other times, to let them go at a junction, or once because someone was driving with no lights on on a dark night.

Swinging Looney

Donkeys years ago, my pride and joy was a Daihatsu Charade petrol turbo. It was a little rocket mostly because of the fact that it was made of tin foil. The only problem with it was my headlights were slightly off aim and I was forever having people flash me because they thought my full beams were on.

One evening on a straight bit of back road this guy was up ahead started flashing me. I had had a bad day and was furious! I flashed him back but really blinded the f***er! He flashed me some more, I flashed him, he flashed me - and we ended up passing each other glaring out our windows! If looks could kill.....

Immediately afterwards my blood was boiling. I turned the next corner a little distracted and it took all my effort and skill to stop dead just short of the huge flock of sheep in the middle of the road!!!! I felt like a right eejit when it slowly dawned on me that the guy was actually trying to warn me of the danger up ahead.

So, I always use my hazard lights to warn people of stuff like that now because I know how distracting flashing your headlights at someone can be. Might be worth remembering when ya flash to warn of a speed trap. If it were me 12 years ago I might have gotten really upset, flashed you back, put the boot down and ended up with an even bigger fine!!!! (BTW I'm not suggesting using your hazard lights instead! Let the eejits get caught!)

andrew1839

Just came across this thread. I personally would not flash people as if people were speeding they deserve to get caught. Gardai are not going to be doing people for 5 or sometimes 10 kpm over the speed limit that would be very harsh. I think it is funny that so much people give out about road deaths and the driving of people on our roads yet you would flash a speeding motorist in order for them to get off.

astraboy

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Of course you don't become dangerous the second you go 1mph over the limit. You became dangerous the second you started moving. You're right in saying that it's not SPEEDING that causes accidents or deaths. It's simply speed itself.


People seem to inherently forget that driving is dangerous. It always was and always will be. There is no guarantee that you will arrive at your destination with yourself intact or without having caused a disaster for someone else. I am acutely aware of that fact and so I don't pretend that I am above the law, know better than a cumulative total of 100 years of industry wide driving experience, have anything other than average driving skills or am somehow able to justify 'a little bit of speeding' on the basis that if 40mph is allowed then sure how can 45 be that bad.

Your point that all speed is dangerous is a good one. My problem, and one that many people on here have, is that there is an overly simplistic view taken on road safety in Ireland. Punishing someone 5/10Kph over the limit when it may be perfectly safe, yet not catching people that are genuinely dangerous(we can all name loads of bad driving habits that are truly dangerous) is what gets peoples backs up. Hiding behind a bush with a radar gun generates revenue, but the same cop could make a better contribution to road safety by driving along the road and pulling over dangerous drivers, ones that overtake dangerously, hog the overtaking lane, tailgate, etc etc.

We can see on certain roads in Germany the Government has enough faith in its citizens to choose their own speed, one they are comfortable with, one suitable for the car and conditions. Obviously we do need far more driver training but this nanny state gets annoying at times. I DO advocate speed limits in many many areas, but motorway/dual carriageway limits are often too low. Saying 120Kph is ok but 130 is not etc. Also, there are many dual carriageways with urban limits on them and often a guard sitting there checking speed. Why? These roads are not going through housing estates, they are dual carriageways!

Swinging Looney wrote: »

The whole argument that Speeding does not cause accidents is completely off the mark. Speed kills. Not Speeding. Many need to get that into their heads.

As for it being OK if you kill someone when not speeding. You seem to imply that you should be exonerated if you were actually under the speed limit. Although you have hinted at the fact that it is actually the road conditions that should dictate how you drive. If you are driving unsafely for the conditions then you are as much to blame as the guy doing 120mph on the motorway. Doing 30 on black ice can kill people too.

The argument about Germany and Autobahns shows just how close up people are to the argument they have formulated. You can't see just how ridiculous it is. Just because no limits works in Germany, doesn't mean that anyone should get away or justify driving at stupid speeds in Ireland. Half the problems I've had in this country have been on motorways when I think about pulling into the fast lane to overtake only to realise that the very distant car in my rearview mirror is actually some utter t**ser doing 120 and who will be passing me out in the next 5 seconds. If I pulled out I would have been creamed. And you think he is driving at a safe speed just because he is on a motorway? Get a grip!

If you pulled out without looking its YOUR fault, he could have been coming up behind you at the speed limit and if you did'nt look still hit you. Just sit in your lane, wait till he passes and then pull out. The guy doing 120 may or may not be safe, depending on the conditions and how aware the guy is.

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Finally, if you get caught for doing 100 in a 60 zone, tough sh**. If you get caught doing 65 in a 60 zone, tough sh**. It's a f**king limit for Christ's sake. NOT A TARGET. Why is it so difficult to do 55? Besides, if you want a buffer on speeding tickets, how big do you suggest it be? 5%? 10%? If we say 10% then every areshole who thinks he's the Stig will be driving at 55 in a 50 zone, 66 in a 60 zone, 132 on the motorway..... And then when they get caught doing 135, they say "But I was only 3kph over the buffer for God's sake!". There is no argument for that IMHO.

The only thing more dangerous than speed and speeding and ignorant driving is drivers who think they know better than everyone else. Those who feel they should be personally allowed to go faster than the law or common sense says because of the skills or the car they drive or whatever else. So, don't flash these areses and please let them get caught. It may be me one day if I momentarily forget to check my speedo, and you know what? I'll f**king deserve it if I couldn't pay attention long enough.

This is where I disagree. i prefer people to watch the road, not their speedo. Selecting the appropriate speed for conditions is what a good driver does. You seem to think speed limits and the law are infallible. Driving is far more complex then that. People do see a speed limit as an upper target. If you are driving safely then your measured speed is not really relevant IMO. By removing the "comfort zone" of the speed limit we force people to choose their own pace, make their own decisions.

I do of course agree driving training needs to greatly improve in Ireland before we go the route of the unrestricted Autobhan, however if German citizens can drive at their chosen speed on certain suitable roads then why not Irish people? The idea of catching a guy 5Kph over the limit and claiming its making a contribution to road safety is a cop out. Crashes are caused by many many factors and putting it all on the speed is just trivializing road safety.

Ignorant driving is one cause of crashes and ignorant drivers are a genuine menace! Unfortunately the Law and common sense are often not linked, especially in the application of speed limits in Ireland. Going faster then the law is one thing, then common sense another on many of the roads I have traveled.

As for indicating a speed check, I'm undecided! Depends on weather the guard is on a nice straight road making up a "quota" or on a genuinely dangerous stretch. I would never indicate a checkpoint, if your not taxed/insured/sober thats your own fault.

MCMLXXXIII

Swinging Looney wrote: »

The argument about Germany and Autobahns shows just how close up people are to the argument they have formulated. You can't see just how ridiculous it is. Just because no limits works in Germany, doesn't mean that anyone should get away or justify driving at stupid speeds in Ireland. Half the problems I've had in this country have been on motorways when I think about pulling into the fast lane to overtake only to realise that the very distant car in my rearview mirror is actually some utter t**ser doing 120 and who will be passing me out in the next 5 seconds. If I pulled out I would have been creamed. And you think he is driving at a safe speed just because he is on a motorway? Get a grip!

True story. Germany has a much more developed emergency response system as well - helicopters stationed along the motorway for airlifts, etc., and an unbelievable short response time. Also, for minor accidents on regular roads you can simply just fill out a form and send it in the post the insurance company (both parties need to sign both forms) - the guards don't get called unless someone is hurt.

But you are right, people need to understand that it is a different situation in Ireland. The speed should depend on the driving conditions, including weather, but especially the other cars and pedestrians around you.

Jrad wrote: »

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Its a crying shame that we are not driving faster? What????

Absolutely! I think driving faster is fun, more effecient, and IMHO it creates less traffic congestion. Hear me out- if people are able to go faster on the motorways then they spend less time on the road, getting on and off faster. If there are less cars on the motorway (because everyone's trip took less time, hense not on the road as long), then there will be less traffic.

Besides, the point I was making when you quoted me was that a large amount of the cost of cars is safety features (better brakes, traction control, etc.), and although I don't want to be forced to use them, I'm glad they are there in case I need them. It jsut seems wierd that through all the advances, we are restricted to the same driving laws.

Senna wrote: »

The whole argument that 'germany has auto-bans with no speed limit, why cant we' is just rubbish,
A German driver’s license costs around €1500, they are require to to get a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory.
They keep their cars to a much higher standard and their NCT is stricter.
German drivers changer their tyres well before it reaches the ware indicator, then the tyres that aren't good enough for german drivers are shipped over here and sold to Irish muppets.

We have a long way to go before we can match their driving attitude.

My driving instruction was 24 hours of theory and 12 hours of professional driver instruction. Then I had to drive for 50 daytime hours and 10 nightime hours or for a year (whichever takes the longest) on a provisional license. Then another 12 hours of theory, a private road test, and a state-issued written test. Then I received my restricted license and couldn't drive from midnight until 5am. If I was pulled over or in any accidents I had to start over. I started the process as soon as I was eligible (14 years and 8 months), but no one gets an unrestricted license until they are 18. All in all, it probably cost around $1200 for the first time (about $150 each year thereafter)

I felt comfortable driving on German roads with my Michigan license. Maybe it's because of the following:
Where I live, no one pays attention to the speed limit, especially on the motorways. The speed limit on the motorway I use most often (I-75, dual carraigeway with 3 to 5 lanes on each side) is 70mph. Honestly, the average speed is about 80. During "rush hour" everyone still goes 80...the cars are just closer together. There are a few corners that have "suggested speeds." There are a few turns on my way downtown that suggest 55mph. Guess what? Everyone still goes 80, and it's fine.
In Germany, the biggest issue I had to get used to was the fact that when the sign said 50km/h, IT MEANT 50! By the end of the summer, the road conditions are the same here as in Germany.

Niall1234 wrote: »

I agree. The people doing 100+ mph on the Autobahn in Germany are driving high powered cars which are designed to be safe at those speeds.

Whereas here, the people driving Punto's like to attempt 100+ with the chance of a Catastrophic engine blow up very likely after 30 miles.

Again though, shouldn't the RSA be doing something about educating our drivers better instead of treating us like fools regarding the speed line.

The best selling vehicle in the US is the F-150, Corolla's and Focuses are fighting for Irish ground, while the Audi TT is Germany's most popular. Either way, everyone knows that Merc, BMW, and Porche/VW/Audi have supperior quality and road handling than most other car companies.

You need the tools - both material and mental, and most people (including myself) don't have what it takes.

Is that our fault? Is it the government's fault? Is it the fault of the lack of educators that are available to train the whole population so intensively?


Anyways, to be OT, I don't get angry if anyone flashes me, and if my lights are correct I assume there is a Guard around the next corner. I don't think the government should be out to "catch" people, especially by waiting in the dark, or lazily having cameras do their jobs. Security is great, but I like a certain level of freedom...infringing upon that freedom are laws that limit my communication to those around me. Although it is actually illegal, I feel that the Guards trying to catch the public with the ultimate force and power to disciplilne anyone that does things as insignificant as flashing some lights is unjust...and it reminds me a lot of "Big Brother." Ireland is not supposed to be a "Police State" and it is really a shame that penalties so small could have such large concequences.

Swinging Looney

First of all - good post!

astraboy wrote: »

My problem, and one that many people on here have, is that there is an overly simplistic view taken on road safety in Ireland. Punishing someone 5/10Kph over the limit when it may be perfectly safe, yet not catching people that are genuinely dangerous(we can all name loads of bad driving habits that are truly dangerous) is what gets peoples backs up.

But that is my point really. Why should any of us feel informed, educated and knowldgeable enough to declare that a state mandated speed limit is actually too low and that some higher speed would be just as safe? How can any system work if certain people feel they can set their own boundaries? The limits are set and that's that. We have no choice but to adhere to them. If you think a speed limit is wrong then get on to your local councillor and get them changed. There was a campaign a while ago for this for a stretch of road near the airport. People wanted it increased from 60 to 80kph. Don't know if it ever was changed though.

I DO advocate speed limits in many many areas, but motorway/dual carriageway limits are often too low. Saying 120Kph is ok but 130 is not etc.

Again if the limit is set at 120kph then that's what it is. The argument that some higher speed is still safe is irrelevant. It's a limit. That means you can't go above it. At all! That just life really.

If you pulled out without looking its YOUR fault, he could have been coming up behind you at the speed limit and if you did'nt look still hit you. Just sit in your lane, wait till he passes and then pull out. The guy doing 120 may or may not be safe, depending on the conditions and how aware the guy is.

Now in fairness.....! Honestly, no disrespect meant, but this is the attitude that really gets me going! Before I overtake on a motorway I look to see what's behind me. If I see a car 1/4 of a mile behind me then I will naturally assume that it's safe to pull out. Since the speed limit is 120kph I expect everyone to be reasonably close to this figure. How the hell am I supposed to account for some eejit who is doing 200kph and who will suddenly be on top of me in a few seconds? Think about it for a moment. Particularly at night, everyone subconsciously judges the distance of a car by the distance between their headlights. Even from a long distance the headlights appear to be of a similar size because of glare. A car doing 300kph from a mile away will appear similar to a car doing 120kph. i.e. no appreciable change in the gap between their headlights over a short period of time. It is only when they start to get fairly close that the headlight gap begins to widen much more rapidly and then we can judge the distance and closure rate more accurately. Why is it my fault that my eyes are incapable of realising that the muppet is a long way off but is screaming along like a bat out of hell? The problem really is that these f***ing muppets don't even pause for a split second to think of any of this. They just think - "I'm in a fancy, well built car and I'm a f***ing wonderful driver so it's perfectly safe to go at this speed." Not one though for the limitations or difficulties of anyone else who may be using the same road. Sorry, but I can never accept that it's my fault because I pulled out in front of some twat who was going twice as fast as me and twice as fast as the legal limit. I looked in my mirrors and it appeared safe. It was his fault for being reckless and putting me and everyone else at risk. (Phew! Rant over!)

You seem to think speed limits and the law are infallible. Driving is far more complex then that.

Naturally, I can see why you think that. However, I get just as frustrated as everyone else with Irish limits. I certainly don't mean to say that drive at or under the limit and all shall be well. Of course the road conditions and other factors need to be considered. We've all seen the one lane back road with the 80kph limit and the dual carriageway beside it with the 60kph limit. But, I just don't understand why we all feel entitled to go faster than we're allowed by law. It's like kids wanting to stay out late, not because they have anything to do, but because they are only allowed out till 10. The law is there and it a pain in the arse, but so what? Get the limits changed if they're wrong. At the same time I've seen people scream and shout for a 20kph limit increase on a stretch of road 1 mile long. The maths say the new limit would save you 15 seconds on your journey. Seriously, you have other issues to resolve if that's really a priority for you.

People do see a speed limit as an upper target. If you are driving safely then your measured speed is not really relevant IMO. By removing the "comfort zone" of the speed limit we force people to choose their own pace, make their own decisions.

I must say I agree with you. The problem of course is that if ther were no limits in this country, every boy racer in town would be screaming by the school at 100mph at half past two in the afternoon. We live in a country full of selfish arseholes and so we need rules and limits and crap like that to keep them in check. And, if there's a rule, it has to apply to us all.

The idea of catching a guy 5Kph over the limit and claiming its making a contribution to road safety is a cop out. Crashes are caused by many many factors and putting it all on the speed is just trivializing road safety.

Don't agree. The only way road safety can be maximised is by banning cars entirely. Speed is the only reason accidents happen. A hapless driver with no coordination could not crash a stationary car. IMHO, you are seeing speed as just a symptom when it is the root cause. If everyone drove more slowly, road deaths would plummet. That is undeniable. Remember that a car doing 50 has over 50% more kinetic energy than a car doing 40. Speed makes the difference, not skill.

ninty9er

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

I've said it before and I will say it again. It's all a hoax. I know some roads are longer, straighter, and wider than others, but seriously...? I posted in another thread: German Autobahn (no limit), American Interstate (70mph), Irish Motorway (60mph). They are all made of the same stuff, and the same cars drive on them. The speed limit depends on a politician's thoughts.

I was in the States during the summer; Interstate limit is still 55mph a whole 17.5 mph less than our Motorways

MCMLXXXIII

ninty9er wrote: »

I was in the States during the summer; Interstate limit is still 55mph a whole 17.5 mph less than our Motorways

You are right, it depends on the state you are in. However, most states are 70, with some 65 and others at 75mph. Some states have a different limit depending on the population density of the area. It also depends on who controls the road (the state, the city, or the federal gov't?). Where I am, all national and state roads are 70 no matter where you are in the state - pretty close to Irish roads...but traffic cameras are illegal (and so is getting a citation through the post), while radar detectors, scramblers and flashing your lights to others is perfectly okay with the government.

astraboy

@swinging Looney, I agree with you on the point of pulling into the overtaking lane on the motorway, I did not really think of the perspective of doing it at night. I still stand by my point of the cop behind the tree verses the cop out patrolling the road however.

The fact remains the guy 5Kph over the limit and getting slapped with a fine may be an excellent, aware safe driver. The guy going 5kph under the limit but not paying attention or driving dangerously, may be the one to cause a crash. I do realize of course that speed limits are the law and in MOST cases I obey them, built up areas etc.

I do break the speed limit on dual carriageways and marginally on national secondary roads on occasion when I believe it is safe to do so. Majority of the time I'm well under the limit. Also, I would break the national secondary limit when overtaking, to minimize my time on the right-hand side of the road. I do this to make my overtaking safer for everyone, instead of me watching the limit and spending more time on the right-hand side. Before anyone retorts, I only pass out when I can tell its safe to do so!

As for limits being too low/too high, councils try and extend urban speed limits as far as possible. My dad is an engineer, reliable source on this! It is because this allows development on the road with the urban limit. I'm not asking for limits to be abolished at all, just a bit of common sense put into the thought process behind setting them! Yes going 10Kph faster will not make a huge difference on when you get to your destination but the fact is people get frustrated at stupidly low limits, and too many of these leaves people questioning the value of speed limits in the first place further damaging road safety. If people believe they are being treated with respect and being treated fairly they will have more respect for the law.