The Quest for 59.59

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

i read somewhere that the 3 goals above are part of the BIG 8 in running which also includes 1 mile in 5 min,5k in 20 min, 5mile in 30 min,10k in 40 min and 1/2 marathon in 90 min , some easier then others , racing flat has probably picked the more difficult of the 8. to complete either of the three would be a great acheivement .

All depends on the person, some, like me, are more suited to shorter distances, others are suited to longer. I know a girl who hovers around 65mins for 10mile but can run 2.50 for marathon. Also, lots of fellows I can hammer over 5k, I'm nowhere near their marathon times. The 10mins for 3k should be a doddle for me but just haven't entered a 3k at the right time I think. The 10miles in 60mins will be a struggle. My best effort was on a hilly course when I went through 6 miles in 36.00, but the wheels came off in the last few uphill miles and ended with 61mins. As for the 3hours for tha marathon, I'm great for 2hours 15mins but find it difficult after this, so again, it won't be easy for me. Will enjoy trying though...

Abhainn

Thanks Racing Flat and SUNGOD for your replies.
I just came across these fitness logs recently and find them very interesting.

SUNGOD I was searching for details of the BIG 8 in running but no success untill now. Cheers at least according to your info I acheived one!

Racing Flat to answer some of your queries:

My height is only 5ft 9in and I am broad so my statute doesn't really constitute a marathon runner, more of a triathlete. I plan to commence tri's this summer as I am a fair swimmer anyway.
I'm hoping my weekly milage increase with shift the rest of the fat that's hugging my 6 pack!

I think I am more suited to the longer runs and I seem to be able to sustain the same pace over a longer distance. My stamina seems good.

My goal is the Berlin marathon sub 3:08. Right now I am training for the Conn Marathon in April. Presently doing 4 runs a week, the three midweek are tempo of 7 miles at MP or faster with long one at weekends. I have two long runs completed with 4 to do, the longest will be over 21miles.

I am trying to throw in a speed session every second week on the track of 6x400 at 1:25 or better with 2:30 lay in between.
But I don't like speed sessions!
For the DM I did a number of half's and for those I did a speed session 1 per week. It been spring there're aren't many 10km or half marathon races so I plan to run a quick 13.1 or 12 miler on the weekends between the really long runs.
Tomorrow I have a 14 mile mountain run in Sligo planned at 7:30/mile or better.


Best of luck in Ballycotton!

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

I think I am more suited to the longer runs and I seem to be able to sustain the same pace over a longer distance. My stamina seems good.

My goal is the Berlin marathon sub 3:08. Right now I am training for the Conn Marathon in April. Presently doing 4 runs a week, the three midweek are tempo of 7 miles at MP or faster with long one at weekends. I have two long runs completed with 4 to do, the longest will be over 21miles.

I am trying to throw in a speed session every second week on the track of 6x400 at 1:25 or better with 2:30 lay in between.
But I don't like speed sessions!
For the DM I did a number of half's and for those I did a speed session 1 per week. It been spring there're aren't many 10km or half marathon races so I plan to run a quick 13.1 or 12 miler on the weekends between the really long runs.
Tomorrow I have a 14 mile mountain run in Sligo planned at 7:30/mile or better.

Your times suggest to me that you may be more suited to the longer runs, but that may be just a function of the training you were doing.

You are hoping to run a marathon in 3.08 - is that about 7.10min mile pace? Your speed session is 6 x 400 at 5.40min mile pace. Not an expert, but I would not do this as a marathon training speed session. I would do longer intervals - 800m, 1k, or 1mile, or running hard for 3-6mins. 8 x 800, 5-6 x 1k or 4 x 1mile aren't bad. You would obviously do these slower than your 400s session, but you'd still be significantly faster than your target race pace. These would work speed (in relation to your race pace) but also speed endurance (all around 4miles of speed-work), while your 6x400s (1.5miles of speed-work) is IMO working speed that you won't really need for the marathon, but won't be pushing your speed endurance as much. Tingle might be the man to advise you on this.

You say you don't like speed session but this is just one type of speed work. You can also do tempo/lactate threshold runs, which consist of upping the pace to around 10mile/half marathon pace for 20mins or so. A nice mix of the different types of speed sessions might be more interesting for you.

Abhainn

Thanks Racing Flat. Regarding the speed sessions I see where you are coming from.
Actually my speed sessions in 2007 combined all of the distances you say. I'll up the distances from the 400m ones from next week.

Apologies for highjacking your log

Racing Flat

Rest.

Contemplated going for run as will miss some days next week, but tired, so need the rest. Hopefully able to bang one out in the morning then...

Racing Flat

12.5miles, 90mins
3 x 20mins hard, 5 mins easy

Racing Flat

long, easy run.

12.1miles, 88 mins, HR149, 7.18pace.

Week: 60miles.

3 weeks to go, 2 hard, 1easy. Bring it on!

Racing Flat

Lactate threshold session - 2 x 20mins, supposed to be around 170 HR but couldn't get above 160 today, tired after weekend. 6.30pace for both on hilly course so happy enough.

Total - 9.1miles, 66mins

Racing Flat

Speed session.

8 x 3mins hard, 3mins easy.

9.3miles

Racing Flat

easy run - 8.1miles 58mins. 7.10pace HR 148

Racing Flat

lactate threshold session, 3 x 20mins.
11.7 miles, 87mins

Tired tonight, legs heavy, 6th day in a row often feels like this. Couldn't hit heart rate target, but not too fussed, good effort put in. Will try and get run in tomorrow and then rest till Monday.

Patto

What do you mean you can't hit the HR? Was that always a problem or is it something that becomes an issue as you get fitter?

I find when I'm tired my Hr goes too high and I can't keep it down.

If you don't mind me asking what is you max HR? What age are you?

Best of luck in Ballycotton btw. I'll be there myself, I won't be finishing till 10 or 15 minutes after you though.

Racing Flat

fri 22nd easy run - 5 mile
sat 23 rest
today rest

Max HR 193, done in physiological fitness testing lab. I mean I might be supposed to run at 175 for a particular session, but I get it to 165-170 and I can't reeally go harder. Would only happen when tired e.g. the 6th day of a 6 day block when legs are really tired, so that to go faster to try and hit the target HR it would hurt the legs too much so I hold back a little. Maybe I'm just 'soft' but I think listening to the body on those days may be a good idea. To get to the target I'd have to push too hard and be wrecked after it, maybe get run down. Having had 2 days off, I imagine I'll easily hit the HR's next few days. Also on cerrtain surfaces - muddy/hilly can be hard to get the speed up to get the heart rate high enough..

One really hard week left, than easy week, then race. Will try and get 2-3 lactate threshold sessions in and a speed session. Been doing the LT sessions on cross country routes but will try one in the week on road to get an idea of how I'm going, as it's always slower on the country.

Patto, re your heart rate, if it goes too high and it won't go down it's probably because you are training too hard on that particular night. Depending on the purpose of the run, you should be hitting a certain HR. I've specific zones, 150-160 for easy runs, 175-180 for LT runs and >185 for speed sessions. These are based on the fitness test I had and not on age. The would not equate to 220-age, but are calculated from graphs of my heart rate/blood lacate levels/VO2max etc. As a rough rule of thumb they say you should be at 70-80% max heart rate for easy runs, 90% for LT runs and >98% for speed sessions (although it might take 400m or so to raise it to this high). Max heart rate may be calculated by running as hard as you can for 5 mins, maybe do a 1 mile race. Everyone's different though - this is a new programme for me with an emphasis on LT runs, so will be interesting to see how I go in Ballycotton.

Racing Flat

week total - 43 miles

Patto

That is very interesting. What you say makes sense though, I always think it is a good idea to listen to the body.

I'm only a part time runner, i really only train like a runner for the 10 weeks running upto the B10 each year, its back to the gym after that. I'm 6'4" and 210Lb so I'm not quite built like a runner. I was aiming to run the race at around 206Lb and 6% body fat. Training has been a bit hit a miss this year due to a hip injury, I have only been able to do lactate runs in the last 2 or 3 weeks. My max HR is 198 which is quite high considering that I am 32, my easy runs would be 145-160, Lactate would be as you said 175-180, the speed runs I do at 3k or 5k pace would be more like 180-183 average over a 1k distance but my hr would be up around 185 or higher by the end.

Keeping my HR down on easy runs is usually my problem. I have trained with people of similar fitness, that being we would run a similiar race time but on a so called easy run my HR would be 164-170 and theirs would be way down in the 140s. Its mad

Will you do any more long runs between now and Sunday week?

Racing Flat

Patto wrote: »

Keeping my HR down on easy runs is usually my problem. I have trained with people of similar fitness, that being we would run a similiar race time but on a so called easy run my HR would be 164-170 and theirs would be way down in the 140s. Its mad

Will you do any more long runs between now and Sunday week?

If your HR on an easy run is 164-170 and it should be 145-160 you are running too hard on that night. Full stop. Go slower so your heart rate is in the desired zones. Let the competetive streak go on the easy run nights, tell the lads you have to go slower, maybe they will also, if not, let them go. Otherwise you are doing what they refer to as junk miles, too fast for easy, ie aerobic cionditioning and recovery benefits but too slow for fitness benefits such as increased lactate threshold HR/pace. so you are tiring the body and running it down without getting any benefit. I think this is a very common mistake. And I have heard Sonia O'Sullivan among other top runners saying this is one thing they would do differently if they could go again - they would go easy on the easy days, rather than always going hard. This stems from competetiveness, insecurity and enjoying hard training I suppose. And will result in poor performance, as you'll just feel washed out come race day.

Secondly, you cannot compare HR based on others with similar race times. I know a 43 year old with max HR of 160. So maybe the people you run with have lower max HR's and as such are at a similar percentage to you during these runs but a lower actual HR? Or else they are also going too hard, or they are 'fitter' than you but you run the same race times because you are a better 'racer'??? Again, it's a common mistake with HR training, so don't compare with others. Just stay in your zones, might mean running on your own unfortunately for some sessions, but if that's the price to beat them;) so be it. Also, it's great to beat fellows in a race who are going harder than you in training - really frustrating for them, but their own fault if they overdid it. As they say, 'don't leave your race on the track'.

6% BF - bloody hell that's low - at your weight? Must be serious body-builder?

Finally, long runs, I'm not really doing any long runs as such with this plan. I do 2 long slow distance runs 60-90mins at my easy heart rate, depending how I feel, so it's usually 1 60min and 1 90min, I'll do that Sat or Sunday. I'll get a speed session in, something like 8 x 800's hard tomorrow night. and I'll do 2 lactate threshold sessions, 3 x 20mins at LT HR, one on Thurs and one on Sat/Sun. These are 12-13 mile runs anyway, so I'm doing 'long runs' appriopriate to a 10mile race, but nothing seriously long. Not sure what I'll do tonight, having had 2 days off I'd be keen enough to do a LT session, but don't want to be too tired for the speed session tomorrow..so will go out and see how the body feels (tough weekend travelling) maybe do a shorter LT session or else just go easy. Then after Sunday I'll have a very easy week. 2-3 runs of 30-40mins and one short LT session (2 x 10mins), no speed session and hopefully do well at BC.

Good luck yourself.

Patto

Thanks for that, its good advise. I have often thought about an bemoaned these "junk" miles but I have to say it is a pride thing, I hate to be the one slowing people down and all that.

6% at 206 was the traget. I'm 210 and more like 7-8%. That last few pounds is a killer. I just look tall and fairly lean, I'm no bodybuilder that is for sure. At my height you need to be 17 stone at least to look bulky and that ain't somewhere I plan to go.

Racing Flat

easy run
8.2 miles 61mins. 7.30min/mile, HR 150bpm

Racing Flat

speed session - intervals
10 x 800 (2.33-2.53, average 2.45; recovery ~2.30) and 1 x 400 (69s)
Total - 10.5miles

Racing Flat

easy run - 8.1miles, 59mins, HR 152

Racing Flat

LT session - 3 x 20mins hard, 5mins easy
20mins @ 6.02pace 173bpm
20mins @ 6.07pace 170bpm
20mins @ 6.23pace 167bpm

Total 13miles 88mins

Patto

40 miles in 4 days! Is that a lot of mileage within 2 weeks of the race?

Judging by those lactate runs though you look strong, you should get in under 60 min no bother.

Racing Flat

Patto wrote: »

40 miles in 4 days! Is that a lot of mileage within 2 weeks of the race?

Judging by those lactate runs though you look strong, you should get in under 60 min no bother.

Don't know about the 'no bother' bit...But I'm very happy with how training's gone, think I've done all I can, so if I don't get it this time it's not too far off I hope. Certainly feeling very strong. Did 10 x 800 the other night and felt I could easily do a few more, admittedly they weren't lightning quick, but previously I'd have done 6 or 8 and be buckling at the end. And was delighted with last nights LT sessions - had been doing them for weeks on grassy hilly muddy courses for strength and injury prevention and safety (busy road) so was down at 6.30-7.00min pace occasionally so was a little concerned so was delighted to be around the 6min mark last night on the road, the last one was mostly uphill so very happy. I essentially did my 4th fastest ever half marathon last night in training at the tail end of 3 hard weeks, so delighted. Will rest today, do easy 60-75mins tomorrow and then do one last LT session Sunday. Then next week will be very very easy. I'll total 60 miles or thereabouts this week. Because I am used to this, and because I will have a very easy week next week, I am happy that this is not too much, but it would be for some. Saying that, if I am feeling tired over the weekend I'll ba happy enough to cut down/ease up on the sessions...feel confident - would be happy to race in a few days, so fingers crossed. just have to get the pre-race right, correct food and sleep for few days before, hopefully good weather on day. Have targeted a good person to pace off, who will go through 5miles in 30 dead, so everything's in place, can't wait!!!

Racing Flat

easy run

8.4 miles, 65mins, 7.50 pace, 141bpm

Racing Flat

LT run, 2 x 20mins

20mins at 6.09pace, 5mins easy, 20mins at 6.06 pace

Total - 9.7miles 68mins

Week Total - 58miles

Racing Flat

easy run. 5.1 miles. 40mins.

Racing Flat

easy week LT session - 10mins @ 165bpm (6.08pace), 5mins easy, 10mins @ 168bpm (6.10pace)

Total 6.4miles 46mins

ike

Good going on the training, well thought out and very consistant...everything looks good for the 59.59 - best of luck!!

Racing Flat

ike wrote: »

Good going on the training, well thought out and very consistant...everything looks good for the 59.59 - best of luck!!

Thanks for that. Need a bit of rest between now and Sunday. Looking forward to it although slightly apprehensive.

Racing Flat

rest