netopia 3347nwg upate problem

freeanipper

hi guys my netopia router atm is running software version 7.50 but its suppose to be running version 7.60 or 7.70 after an update. i have d/led the bin fin and tried to update but every time i have tried the update failed. the firmware update netopia on there web page recomend is nta742r2.bin.

Hal1

Have your reset the defaults and tried updating offline? Do you really need to update, I mean if everything is working ok...

I suggest you have a read of this first before you go any further and end up with no internet connection.

freeanipper

was hoping i need an update as every so often im getting disconections 3-4 times most evenings. all the setting seem to be the same cept for the fact that im using a laptop stead of a desktop now. never had the dis cons before on the DT. i've no idea how to update it offline as i think you need the netopia webpage online to choose expert mode and so on.

Hal1

If you downloaded the new firmware you should be able to update offline. What is the signal strength like and do you have the router protected? if so what encryption are you using wep or wpa. I would also update wireless drivers on laptop / pc to see if there is any improvement.

BloodSugarSex

freeanipper wrote: »

was hoping i need an update as every so often im getting disconections 3-4 times most evenings. all the setting seem to be the same cept for the fact that im using a laptop stead of a desktop now. never had the dis cons before on the DT. i've no idea how to update it offline as i think you need the netopia webpage online to choose expert mode and so on.

this keeps happening to me, sometimes 10 times a day getting disconnected, its not my wireless adaptor or ethernet its fooking eircom and they wont do anything about it, im at my wits end with the shower of cons

EDIT:

ive sent comreg an e-mail yesterday about my troubles with eircom, i suggest you and anyone else having these problems that eircom refuse to fix do the same

EDIT AGAIN:

heres a link to the 7.6 frimware http://www.fastaccess.drivers.bellsouth.net/#cayman

couldnt find the 7.7

championc

Save the .bin file to your PC first and then pick the option to upload from your PC. You should be able to upgrade to 7.6.0r4 (which I have been using for a long time now). If you are still on some 7.4 version then as far as I remember, you need to go to 7.5.0 first and then to 7.6.0r4. If you try and go directly, you will get a checksum error

7.5.0 at http://www.netopia.com/support/hardware/firmware/7_series/nta750.bin

I think 7.7 is for the 2247's only


C

rc28

I updated my 3347nwg to 7.6 from 7.5 just today and while my attenuation dropped to 48/49 from 51 my SNR has become very erratic. It was around 25 before and it now jumps from 24 when i first boot it up to as low as 12 where it stays. What I want to know is- which is more important to have (good snr or better attenuation) and so should i downgrade it back to the older firmware? I know that SNR under 8 results in disconnects but I've always got the impresssion that attenuation is more important. Also, what would have cause it to go like this? I've tried diiferent filters, plugging it directly into the wall etc but it doesn't make a difference.
My datapath has also been set to fast since I installed the fw but there has been no difference in pings.

Hal1

I would revert back to the old firmware...Attenuation is the reduction in amplitude and intensity of a signal. SNR, is a measure of signal strength relative to background noise. More noise better signal.

zugvogel

Hal1 wrote: »

... More noise better signal.

Don't think that's right! The higher the ratio of signal to noise the better. RC28 AFAIK when Eircom run tests they test to the circuitry in the master socket not to the modem so which firmware you use maybe immaterial at this stage provided both give you a connection that doesn’t resync. After the upgrade try both and see which is best.

rc28

zugvogel wrote: »

Don't think that's right! The higher the ratio of signal to noise the better. RC28 AFAIK when Eircom run tests they test to the circuitry in the master socket not to the modem so which firmware you use maybe immaterial at this stage provided both give you a connection that doesn’t resync. After the upgrade try both and see which is best.

Ye I think that's what I'm going to try- have a 2247 spare but that's even worse for SNR. On that adsl calculator it seems lower attenuation is more important for adsl2+ but snr affects plain old adsl1 more but that could be a load of sh*te.

rc28

Actually it's way too erratic now- jumping between 6(!) and 19 with one disconnect (first time ever with this router). It rapidly deteriorates a few seconds after I boot it up. I tried the old 2247 and that won't connect at all now so I'm getting worried it's my line that has the problem:(
EDIT: Downgrade to 7.5 worked and SN is back up to 23, however attenuation up to 51 too.

championc

Is your router connected to an extension lead ? If so, disconnect and connect as near as possible to the Eircom wall box and check the readings.

Also, I also had a problem last year where I was getting a crap signal at the line box. The Eircom copper wire was discolourled so I chopped about an inch or two off it and re-made it into the box and signal improved no end.

I'm sure it's the rarest of occasions where a firmware upgrade has changed figures like this. If there was a firmware error causing problems like this, you would have heard all about it.

For what it's worth, my figures are
Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1024 128
SN Margin (dB) 12.00 14.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 58.00 31.50


C

Sponge Bob

If lots of people between rc28 and his exchange got a speed bump this weekend then it could be Crosstalk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSL#On_the_wire

rc28

championc wrote: »

Is your router connected to an extension lead ? If so, disconnect and connect as near as possible to the Eircom wall box and check the readings.

Also, I also had a problem last year where I was getting a crap signal at the line box. The Eircom copper wire was discolourled so I chopped about an inch or two off it and re-made it into the box and signal improved no end.

I'm sure it's the rarest of occasions where a firmware upgrade has changed figures like this. If there was a firmware error causing problems like this, you would have heard all about it.

For what it's worth, my figures are
Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1024 128
SN Margin (dB) 12.00 14.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 58.00 31.50


C

Thanks. There is a small thin branch that is snagged on the line that runs from a white box on a telephone pole (on the road outside my house) to my house.It is leaning on the line where the copper unravels just before it enters the box so do you think that's causing problems?There was a time when my linehad an attenuation of 48 and excellent snr of 28 so perhaps something has damaged it. I'm certain it's nothing internal as all the eircom sockets in my home were replaced two years ago after lightning blasted them all.

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If lots of people between rc28 and his exchange got a speed bump this weekend then it could be Crosstalk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSL#On_the_wire

My exchange is due to be upgraded on august 9th

zugvogel

rc28 wrote: »

Actually it's way too erratic now- jumping between 6(!) and 19 with one disconnect (first time ever with this router). It rapidly deteriorates a few seconds after I boot it up. I tried the old 2247 and that won't connect at all now so I'm getting worried it's my line that has the problem:(
EDIT: Downgrade to 7.5 worked and SN is back up to 23, however attenuation up to 51 too.

RC28 have a look at this...
http://www.internode.on.net/residential/internet/home_adsl/extreme/ ... which says at 50db ish attenuation your line should/could be capable of 4 to 5Mbit on ADSL(1) (blue shaded area). The difference between 48dB and 51 dB attenuation is somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 Mbits.

Zug

rc28

zugvogel wrote: »

RC28 have a look at this...
http://www.internode.on.net/residential/internet/home_adsl/extreme/ ... which says at 50db ish attenuation your line should/could be capable of 4 to 5Mbit on ADSL(1) (blue shaded area). The difference between 48dB and 51 dB attenuation is somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 Mbits.

Zug

I came across a forum where someone had attenuation 48 and SNR of 10 was syncing fine at 4mb, the same thread was also about how branches might affect phoneline quality;
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=79275

championc

rc28 wrote: »

I'm certain it's nothing internal as all the eircom sockets in my home were replaced two years ago after lightning blasted them all.

Was it just your internal wiring that was changed or did Eircom replace the wire to the pole ? In all honesty, it will only take you a couple of minutes to remake the Eircom connection so long as you have some slack on this wire. Are there any joins in the cable between the pole and your Eircom box in your hallway ?

If you ever need Eircom to come and check your connection, they will always test from your line box which is the demarcation point. The new boxes have a faceplate which plugs into the rere plate so they don't need to open the socket anymore - just unclip the front plate and connect what they need to the RJ11 behind.


C

rc28

championc wrote: »

Was it just your internal wiring that was changed or did Eircom replace the wire to the pole ? In all honesty, it will only take you a couple of minutes to remake the Eircom connection so long as you have some slack on this wire. Are there any joins in the cable between the pole and your Eircom box in your hallway ?

If you ever need Eircom to come and check your connection, they will always test from your line box which is the demarcation point. The new boxes have a faceplate which plugs into the rere plate so they don't need to open the socket anymore - just unclip the front plate and connect what they need to the RJ11 behind.
C

The engineer replaced the sockets in my house and the equipment in the white box on the telephone pole but I don't think he put in any new wires. I am unsure of which line you think I should cut as the line from the pole is hooked into a small black box on the side gable of my house. This box has a few connections on it from which a phone line goes to 3 different sockets in the house. I don't see any sign that any of the lines are damaged

championc

OK, so if the black box on the side of your house then breaks the line into three lines, then this is technically your demarcation point although I'm sure that Eircom wouldn't see it like this. My guess is that you have a connection from this black box to an "original" box in your hallway and that the other two points were added afterwards.

It sounds like the electrician took a shortcut and technically should have run the two extras from your side (the plug side) on the main indoor socket. I'm sure that if you look in the external black box you will see that one of the three cables leading to internal sockets if of a different (and most likely superior) quality to the other two in which case this will have been the original Eircom one.

Anyway, back to your original question. You would need to strip an inch off the cable leading into the external black box. Since it's external, it could be weathered and is gradually degrading.


C

Sponge Bob

championc wrote: »

OK, so if the black box on the side of your house then breaks the line into three lines, then this is technically your demarcation point although I'm sure that Eircom wouldn't see it like this.

Then there is a current drop , the sockets should be in series

outside junction > main socket > socket one > socket two

instead its

            / socket 1
outside  --socket 2
            \ socket 3

equally, This drops the current which could cause 'noise '.

So what do you get if you disconnect the two 'other ' sockets then RJ28 at the black box ??

the engineer would have had a bit of a job correcting that TBH .

This is what CC was on about with piccies

http://www.reci.ie/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf

rc28

Ok I'm not understanding everything that is being said but as far as I can make out there is no 'main' socket(as each has its own line from the gable) but I will post pics tomorrow if I can reach the black box.

vectra

championc wrote: »

I'm sure it's the rarest of occasions where a firmware upgrade has changed figures like this. If there was a firmware error causing problems like this, you would have heard all about it.

For what it's worth, my figures are
Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1024 128
SN Margin (dB) 12.00 14.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 58.00 31.50


C

I tried the firmware upgrade just now to check for you guys
Results:

Firmware 7.5 :

Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 7616 672
SN Margin (dB) 22.00 6.50
Line Attenuation (dB) 18.50 10.00

Firmware 7.6 :

Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 7616 672
SN Margin (dB) 11.50 13.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 15.50 10.00


Going back to 7.5 if it is better :cool:

championc

rc28 wrote: »

Ok I'm not understanding everything that is being said but as far as I can make out there is no 'main' socket(as each has its own line from the gable) but I will post pics tomorrow if I can reach the black box.

If you have a socket in your hallway, then I reckon you can be 99% sure that this would be the original master. Thank god for cordless phones meaning that we no longer have to sit in the coldest part of the house to take or make a phonecall


C

rc28

Ok I've spent some time tracing the various wires around my house but now I'm even more confused than ever. The phoneline from the telephone pole outside meets my house high up (i cant reach it even with a ladder) at a point that is covered in ivy (old house) but it appears that from there it splits in three. One goes directly to the socket in the room that our router is connected to (this socket in attached pic below);
P1080440 (Large).JPG
Another goes straight into the socket in our living room which is apparently the original outlet that was always in the house before the other two were added. This particular socket has one other socket beside it on the window sill and an odd yellow box, the telecom eireann box you see to the left is one that we dont use anymore(it was used for an extension line to the hallway) as it is broken but the newer eircom one to the right was put in after the lightning and it works fine. I have no idea what the purpose of the yellow box to the right is but as you will see a completely separate black wire leads to that from outside;
P1080442 (Large).JPG
P1080443 (Large).JPG
This shows one black wire going to the yeallow box and the other goes to the eircom socket;P1080438 (Large).JPG
The third line that splits off from the point the eircom line reaches the house leads to a small whitish box further down (which i could reach). This box has many available ports on it but only two are occupied. One goes to a new socket in the extension that was built last year while another goes to the mysterious yellow box in the living room which doesn't seem to have a purpose (as far as I can see!). It looks like it is new enough so maybe they put it in after the lightning? Why do two separate lines go to the living room?;
P1080434 (Large).JPG-there's ivy around it

I saw no evidence of any damaged wires so I don't think there's any point in cutting anything and ,besides I can't even reach the place where the main line joins the house.

Sponge Bob

rc28 wrote: »

One goes to a new socket in the extension that was built last year while another goes to the mysterious yellow box in the living room which doesn't seem to have a purpose (as far as I can see!).

Looks like a junction box too, it was cream once I assure you

It usually converts 'thick 'outside wires to 'thin ' inside ones .

So you have a TE socket and an NTU and a 'cream junction box' beside each other, at least one socket should be removed although I suspect its the TE socket and it does not work any more anyway , off with it .

The outside wires go right into to the NTU.

You still have a current drop, can you open both NTU and cream box ( thin flat blade will lever it open that cream box ) the single yellow wire may be an earth although it think it's unused .

Diconnect the outside wires from the NTU and leave unconnected, especially to each other .

Now what happens with the stats ??

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Looks like a junction box too, it was cream once I assure you

It usually converts 'thick 'outside wires to 'thin ' inside ones .

So you have a TE socket and an NTU and a 'cream junction box' beside each other, at least one socket should be removed although I suspect its the TE socket and it does not work any more anyway , off with it .

The outside wires go right into to the NTU.

You still have a current drop, can you open both NTU and cream box ( thin flat blade will lever it open that cream box ) the single yellow wire may be an earth although it think it's unused .

Diconnect the outside wires from the NTU and leave unconnected, especially to each other .

Now what happens with the stats ??

When you say disconnect, what do you mean?There's a bunch of wires inside it but only 2 are secured in. Is the NTU just the socket with 'eircom' written on it?
I have opened both boxes but I have no idea what i do next, here's some pics;
P1080447 (Large).JPG
P1080448 (Large).JPG
P1080450 (Large).JPG
P1080452 (Large).JPG
Also, why is there a phone connection inside the socket? My broadband went down as soon as I opened the two boxes so I put back on the plates for now and it's back. Why would this be,- eircom know I'm up to no good:eek::D?

Sponge Bob

rc28 wrote: »

When you say disconnect, what do you mean?There's a bunch of wires inside it but only 2 are secured in. Is the NTU just the socket with 'eircom' written on it??

NTU has "eircom" written on it, exactly . The TE yoke is pre NTU days. NTU came in about 12 years ago.

Remove 2 more screws to get at wiring from outside, yes there are two.

Disconnect them, you should have dialtone before and none after.

Now check line stats !

where does that single yellow wire go in the NTU ???? still looks like an earth !

rc28

Ok I opened up the second inner plate(and found a dead wasp!) but now there are 4 wires altogether that are screwed in, do I unscrew all of them? Two are held in by miniscule screws. If the yellow one is an earth is it safe to disconnect it?
Everytime I open the plate the internet goes down- how will I find out my line stats when the plate is open and I've disconnected the wires? my router is connected to a different socket in a different room so I don't understand why it goes down. Pics;
P1080454 (Large).JPG
P1080459 (Large).JPG
P1080457 (Large).JPG

championc

Pics 1080448 and 1080450 are starting to tell a story. While it looked like the yellow wire was the only one, I can now see a black one hiding behind it. The thick wire which goes into the Yellow Box is your standard Eircom shielded Underground Cable and will, I'm sure, have a very heavy wire wrapped around it to save it from accidental damage.

The possibility here is that this IS your feed in and leads into the Eircom box. Do you have a voltage meter because you could see if the thick Black cable has a line becuase if so, it will be 48v. If you disconnect the Yellow and Black wires, is the line then dead ?

It certainly looks like it's worth getting rid of the yellow box and if possible, if the thick Black cable IS live, connect this directly into where the yellow and black cables go inside the Eircom box. Again, if it's live, the thick Black cable looks weathered on it's tips and so I would strip this back an inch or two. This was what I meant in previous posts.

Have fun


C

rc28

Ok I'm not sure if I want to go messing with any live wires and break our phone line and once you unscrew them how do you put them back in? The eircom box you see was only put in 2 years ago so surely the yellow box has a purpose as a yellow and black wire are connected to the NTU from it.