netopia 3347nwg upate problem

Sponge Bob

disconnect all 4 wires from back of front plate and leave in air for now

remove wasp

I dont know which 2 are live, it could be the yellow and black pair or the ones coming in bottom right on the off white cable and crimped ( twisted together) manually

ensure that there is no TOUCH between the crimped ones , seems like from outside 2 bonded pairs came in and were crimped with a single inside, one is positive and one negative if they are in use

a bit of insulating cable around each crimp set would be an idea but what happens your stats please after you disconnect the 4 wires !!!!!

championc

Pic 1080454 confirms it. The incoming wire is the yellow and black and the blue pair carry the line off to the next hop. If you disconnect the yellow and black, the line will be dead. You can try. All you have to do is connect it again.


C

rc28

Ok no it doesn't work because;
1) as soon as the face plate is off the phone line in the whole house doesn't work- no phone, no intternet. Therefore, the router stats page has nothing but 'down' in place of any stats.
2) I disconnected the yellow and black wires but couldn't take out the blue and white ones as I didn't have screw driver small enough to fit for the screw.


Even if I had managed to disconnect all 4 wires I wouldn't have been able to find out the line stats as the line goes down until I put back on the faceplate.
Thanks for all the help anyway. I did manage to remove the wasp though so I got something accomplished;)

rc28

championc wrote: »

Pic 1080454 confirms it. The incoming wire is the yellow and black and the blue pair carry the line off to the next hop. If you disconnect the yellow and black, the line will be dead. You can try. All you have to do is connect it again.


C

Yes but it goes dead before I disconnect them, when I remove the plate of the NTU

Are you saying that the blue and white are for connecting to the TE box to the left? Would my line work when I put back on the plate after disconnecting those two?

Sponge Bob

championc wrote: »

Pic 1080454 confirms it. The incoming wire is the yellow and black and the blue pair carry the line off to the next hop. If you disconnect the yellow and black, the line will be dead. You can try. All you have to do is connect it again.

Thats it I reckon, if CC is right the ADSL goes dead as well if you disconnect those two only .

As it seems the dirty white wire carries the data out to the 'next socket' I would do as follows

1. reconnect yellow/black test for dialtone on NTU
2. disconnect the blue and white pair from bottom of front plate, dialtone still on NTU but extension dies.
3. Plug adsl gear into the NTU unit and now stats PLEASE!!!

I don't like the look of that crimp before the wires head 'back out' on that off white cable, where does that white cable go ????

Note.

Burning off a bit of the yellow and black plastic sheaths will expose MORE copper and will make a better connector into the NTU if wrapped around under screw , at least 10mm of copper should be exposed at each end of the yellow and of the black cable for a good connection .

The yellow and black cables are only BOG standard phone wires and doubling each up would do not harm ( use two short ( about 15cm) lengths of phone wire for yellow and 2 for black and twist together before screwing down with 10mm exposed each end , etc)

Sponge Bob

rc28 wrote: »

Yes but it goes dead before I disconnect them, when I remove the plate of the NTU

Loose wire is the only explanation for that or a touch between those crimped ones ! Have you a multimeter to measure DC voltage ??

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Thats it I reckon, if CC is right the ADSL goes dead as well if you disconnect those two only .

As it seems the dirty white wire carries the data out to the 'next socket' I would do as follows

1. reconnect yellow/black test for dialtone on NTU
2. disconnect the blue and white pair from bottom of front plate, dialtone still on NTU but extension dies.
3. Plug adsl gear into the NTU unit and now stats PLEASE!!!

I don't like the look of that crimp before the wires head 'back out' on that off white cable, where does that white cable go ????

Note.

Burning off a bit of the yellow and black plastic sheaths will expose MORE copper and will make a better connector into the NTU if wrapped around under screw , at least 10mm of copper should be exposed at each end of the yellow and of the black cable for a good connection .

The yellow and black cables are only BOG standard phone wires and doubling each up would do not harm ( use two short ( about 15cm) lengths of phone wire for yellow and 2 for black and twist together before screwing down with 10mm exposed each end , etc)

Ok I found a screwdriver small enough and I disconnected them BUT (after putting back on the facplate) the bb was still down but the phone in the extension(completely separate socket though) worked so i had to reconnect the wires again. My line stats havn't chnaged since I reconnected them.

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Loose wire is the only explanation for that or a touch between those crimped ones ! Have you a multimeter to measure DC voltage ??

No, no such equipment. I have looked closely and there is no plastic near where the wires are screwed down.

Sponge Bob

STATS !!!!

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

STATS !!!!

Argghhh, how many times do I have to say- when I disconnect the wires you told me to the line goes down altogether and, therefore, i cannot find out what my line stats are. Currently, with everything in its place my line stats are attenuation 51, SNR 24

Sponge Bob

the adsl socket is in series with the ntu , out on that white wire I will bet if you follow it.

what are the stats in the ntu socket itself ??

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

the adsl socket is in series with the ntu , out on that white wire I will bet if you follow it.

what are the stats in the ntu socket itself ??

Ok I opened it up and in the socket within the NTU the internet refused to connect but dsl sync light was up and iirc the stats were exactly the same. The bb wouldn't connect here for 20 mins after that- kept saying I had the wrong password but then suddenly decided to connect.

Sponge Bob

Right , back to the pictures

When you remove the faceplate the yellow and black cables are the link out to the outside world , therefore the other two cables on the back ( blue and white) of the faceplate go on to the normal adsl socket via the white cable , remove them from the faceplate and see what the ADSL stats are off the NTU in their absence . You can see them here .

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/85901/60312.JPG

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Right , back to the pictures

When you remove the faceplate the yellow and black cables are the link out to the outside world , therefore the other two cables on the back ( blue and white) of the faceplate go on to the normal adsl socket via the white cable , remove them from the faceplate and see what the ADSL stats are off the NTU in their absence . You can see them here .

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/85901/60312.JPG

Yes I tried disconnecting them and connecting router into internal socket in NTU but the stats didn't change. The wire into the yellow box from outside comes from the small white box(with loads of available ports on it) outside which in turn comes from the point where the phoneline reaches the house. The other white cable that comes into the NTU(splitting into all the different coloured wires) comes from that same point outside.

Sponge Bob

You have a third extension, can you disconnect that to see what happens ( leave wires in air not touching anything) and test stats at NTU ?

If there is no improvement the ladder must be deployed to trace EVERYTHING through and check for dirt, leaks and dead insects in every box .

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You have a third extension, can you disconnect that to see what happens ( leave wires in air not touching anything) and test stats at NTU ?

If there is no improvement the ladder must be deployed to trace EVERYTHING through and check for dirt, leaks and dead insects in every box .

Are you talking about going outside to disconnect wires from the thing with loads of ports on it?:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/85901/60303.JPG

What third extension? Remember, the TE box to the left of the NTU is not connected to anything as it broke ages ago.

Sponge Bob

Soz I thought you said you had three telephone ports within the house, eg the adsl one the ntu and a third.

is that the high up yoke below , can it flap in the wind ??

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/85901/60303.JPG

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Soz I thought you said you had three telephone ports within the house, eg the adsl one the ntu and a third.

is that the high up yoke below , can it flap in the wind ??

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/85901/60303.JPG

We do have 3 telephone ports but the 3rd is completely separate from the older other two as it runs from the little white box that is pictured above. When the bb and phone went down in the two other rooms it remained on and unaffected. Because of that, it appears you are right that the NTU and the adsl socket in the office are in series.
The thing in the picture cant flap around as it is so deeply embedded in the ivy! Before someone asks, no the ivy does not appear to be damaging anything and I can't see any wear and tear on any of the outside cables. Then again, I could not reach up high enough to get to the point where the phone line from the pole meets the house.

I appreciate all the help SpongeBob and Championc but I just have no experience in dealing with phonelines etc.

Sponge Bob

Better get up to the white thing so and disconnect that other extension somehow as your next test ( and check the white box for 'critters' ) .

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Better get up to the white thing so and disconnect that other extension somehow as your next test ( and check the white box for 'critters' ) .

That's the thing- how do you disconnect stuff from it, they look fairly well stuck in? I remember when the extension was being built the electrician was messing with it and obviously he put the 3rd phone line running from it.

Sponge Bob

rc28 wrote: »

That's the thing- how do you disconnect stuff from it, they look fairly well stuck in? I remember when the extension was being built the electrician was messing with it and obviously he put the 3rd phone line running from it.

The wires are screwed in, just like in the back of the faceplate or in the off white box .

You pop it open with a flat blade screwdriver , see the notches on the side .

It should have one cable in from the road or somewhere and 2 cables out, one to the NTU and one to the extension disconnect only the one out to the extension and check for dirt or critters that could short things ...or for any sign of water .

Ladder and camera and screwdriver at the ready , March !

( it MUST flap in the wind unless its fixed properly to a wall , you could tether it with a hook drilled into the wall and a few cable ties around it and into the hook , that electrician of yours is a chancer.)

championc

I'm back online now.

You are running around checking this and that and disconnecting this and that but have mised the most important thing.

My first advise was to remove the yellow box and connect the two black wires onto the Eircom box directly where the yellow and black wires currently connect.

The main reason why is because of the grade of the yellow and black cable. From photo 1080448 and 1080457, you can see that the cable is a) much thinner and b) is SILVER coloured. This cable should really be copper but also, you are adding another un-necessary joint.

Since you seem to get the same readings at all sockets, then things come back to the one common denominator - the entry point. It may well end up that the signal will be no better once you remove the yellow and black short strands and the Yellow Box but you will then have a TRUE demarcation point to which you can put your hand on your heart and say that this is the Eircom line into an Eircom box and it's then for Eircom to fix it - that's why you pay line rental


C

rc28

championc wrote: »

I'm back online now.

You are running around checking this and that and disconnecting this and that but have mised the most important thing.

My first advise was to remove the yellow box and connect the two black wires onto the Eircom box directly where the yellow and black wires currently connect.

The main reason why is because of the grade of the yellow and black cable. From photo 1080448 and 1080457, you can see that the cable is a) much thinner and b) is SILVER coloured. This cable should really be copper but also, you are adding another un-necessary joint.



C

Ok, firstly I HAVE already disconnected the yellow and black wires but the internet flat out didn't work then on either the extension socket and iirc the NTU internal socket too (or the stats remained exactly the same).
I don't understand what you mean by "remove the yellow box". How can I 'remove' it when there are important wires going in and out of it- it appears to be there for a reason.

championc

Unscrew the two black wires off the yellow box and take these two wires and attach them to where the yelow and black wires connect on the Eircom box. Obviously you will most likely have to move the eircom box into the corner since you may not have mich slack.

In addition, in order for your lines to work, you MUST re-attach the faceplate onto the eircom box in order for the line to be carried from the back part to the front. It is passed through the RJ11 connection which is part or the front plate which then connects into the back plate


C

rc28

championc wrote: »

Unscrew the two black wires off the yellow box and take these two wires and attach them to where the yelow and black wires connect on the Eircom box. Obviously you will most likely have to move the eircom box into the corner since you may not have mich slack.

In addition, in order for your lines to work, you MUST re-attach the faceplate onto the eircom box in order for the line to be carried from the back part to the front. It is passed through the RJ11 connection which is part or the front plate which then connects into the back plate


C

Ok I'm grateful for you trying to help but I will not be going to move the NTU and potentially break/damage some important wires. I am not experienced with wiring and it would be unwise of me to try what you suggest. Also, don't eircom own the NTU?

Sponge Bob

CC, we are looking at the white box OUTSIDE now having scoped 2 points inside and disconnected internal wiring .

championc

Sponge Bob wrote: »

CC, we are looking at the white box OUTSIDE now having scoped 2 points inside and disconnected internal wiring .

It's easy to see now why rc28 ended up disconnecting the internal wiring.

rc28, I have attached a quick sketch. It's the simplest thing in the world to do. I can understand if you're confused but this surely clarify things


C

Sponge Bob

not long enough I would think CC .....but good advice for sure . The outside cable can 'carry ' a lot more data than the yellow and black ones ( they look to be solid core BTW)

I did tell him to double up the cables , and twist them together at the ends with min 10mm exposed at each end to make a good contact .

RC , have you climbed up to "The White Box" yet

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

not long enough I would think CC .....but good advice for sure . The outside cable can 'carry ' a lot more data than the yellow and black ones ( they look to be solid core BTW)

I did tell him to double up the cables , and twist them together at the ends with min 10mm exposed at each end to make a good contact .

RC , have you climbed up to "The White Box" yet

Lol, no I will have a look tomorrow. I did as you said earlier and twisted the black and yellow together but there was no difference in line stats- definitely no plastic at the end either (a good 10/15mm of exposed metal). I have discovered that my brother in law has a spare 2247 router so I'll check that at some stage too.

Sponge Bob

double up means get length of phone wire

cut it into c 15cm lengths , pull out the cores , either 4 or 6 or 8

expose 15mm at each end of each core ( fag lighter will do it )

Join 2 or maybe three together at the ends by twisting the copper around , replace the yellow wire with one double/ treble up and the black wire with another double/treble up and test stats again . Its the same idea as CC and the wire core direct scheme. We both think the yellow and black wires are a tad thin and want to thicken them .

Then get the ladder ready