What are your views on homosexuality?

Pompey Magnus

stevejazzx wrote: »

With the Darwinian imperatvie being hetrosexual reproduction I don't imagine that homosexuality was ever a treat to the continuation of a tribe but I see your point.

I remember watching a historical documentary a few years ago on the Spartans which attributed rampant homosexuality among the warrior class, among other factors, to the fall of the Spartan system. If I remember correctly the men were so unwilling to have sex with the wives that they left it to their slaves to do the job for them, poor slaves .

stevejazzx

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

I remember watching a historical documentary a few years ago on the Spartans which attributed rampant homosexuality among the warrior class, among other factors, to the fall of the Spartan system. If I remember correctly the men were so unwilling to have sex with the wives that they left it to their slaves to do the job for them, poor slaves .

Yes well theres a differnece between Homosexuality as a way of living and sexualised ambiguity of ancient Greece. I mean Spartan pederasty is hardly Homosexuality as we know it today.

Michael G

I am sexually attracted to women but I am not married and I don't want or expect to be. I often want sex but I know that I can't have it and still claim to be a practising Christian (or in my case Catholic). I would very much like to have sex with a number of women I know (though not necessarily all at the same time, because I am 51 years old and not very fit and might make a fool of myself).

Am I oppressed?

Pompey Magnus

Michael G wrote: »

I am sexually attracted to women but I am not married and I don't want or expect to be. I often want sex but I know that I can't have it and still claim to be a practising Christian (or in my case Catholic). I would very much like to have sex with a number of women I know (though not necessarily all at the same time, because I am 51 years old and not very fit and might make a fool of myself).

Am I oppressed?

If your only reason for not trying is because you are following Christian teachings then the answer certainly is yes.

Michael G

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

If your only reason for not trying is because you are following Christian teachings then the answer certainly is yes.

That would be true if following Christian teachings was a choice, with options, like joining a political party, but it isn't anything like that. I feel deprived sometimes that I can't have a lot of sex without it being a problem, but being a Catholic and being able to go to Mass and receive Holy Communion is much more important. Hugely more important in fact.

robindch

Michael G wrote: »

I am sexually attracted to women [...] I would very much like to have sex with a number of women I know [...] Am I oppressed?

Seconded - yes, you are.

And equally importantly, if the women you're interested in are not married, then most interpretations of the bible don't prohibit you from having sex with them either. The bible only prohibits "adultery", which is understood to be sex between a man and a woman who is married to another guy. The bible does not prohibit sex between unmarried men and unmarried women, nor sex between a married man and an unmarried women or women, nor masturbation (mutual or otherwise), nor (bizarrely) sex with kids.

The Vatican may have refined these rules to be more restrictive -- I haven't checked recently and can't understand much when I do -- but the bible itself is quite clear: as long as you're not sleeping with either one or more men, or one or more married women, you're in the clear.

.

philologos

robindch wrote: »

The bible does not prohibit sex between unmarried men and unmarried women, nor sex between a married man and an unmarried women or women, nor masturbation (mutual or otherwise), nor (bizarrely) sex with kids.
.

Matthew 5:28 wrote:

but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You can't do a lot of these things because of lusting, marriage is intended to be there to provide a level of security in a relationship whereby one is less likely to cheat on your inside of a marriage than outside of one. Thus it is preferable to wait until you are married.

Also, masturbation generally comes with lustful thoughts. It's impossible to do so without.

Pompey Magnus

Jakkass wrote: »

Also, masturbation generally comes with lustful thoughts. It's impossible to do so without.

Are chimps capable of lust? They are always at it.

Zombrex

Michael G wrote: »

I am sexually attracted to women but I am not married and I don't want or expect to be. I often want sex but I know that I can't have it and still claim to be a practising Christian (or in my case Catholic). I would very much like to have sex with a number of women I know (though not necessarily all at the same time, because I am 51 years old and not very fit and might make a fool of myself).

Am I oppressed?

You are choosing not to get married and not to have sex.

A homosexual couple doesn't choose not to get married, they are told they can't get married. Ever. A homosexual couple doesn't choose not to have sex, they are told they can't have sex. Ever

Bit of a difference don't you think.

I really wish people with stop this nonsense that being a homosexual in the Christian churches is the same as a heterosexual who just isn't have sex. Heterosexuals are allowed get married and have sex if they want to. Heterosexuals aren't. The key issue is choice, heterosexuals have it homosexuals don't. Being a heterosexual and choosing not to get married or have sex is not the same as being a homosexual told they can't get married and they can't have sex. It isn't the same at all.

philologos

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

Are chimps capable of lust? They are always at it.

Chimps have nothing to do with God's distinct plan for humankind.

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

Chimps have nothing to do with God's distinct plan for humankind.

The Chimps might disagree .. but then I guess that is just another holy war brewing ...

JoeB-

I see it as unfair that life tests different people in different ways... for example homosexuals have a more difficult time living a Christian (Catholic) life because the sexual urge is so strong in humans (due to Darwinism)... it would seem far easier for a hetrosexual to refrain from worshipping false gods and killing people than it is for a homosexual to live an absolutely celibate life.. don't forget, even the thoughts a gay person may have would be enough to consign them to hell... this seems unfair. (I may be wrong on the thoughts issue but presumabely it is worse to lust after a same sex partner than it is to lust after an opposite sex partner.. but can we even control what we think or feel?... It doesn't feel like it to me..)

(An alternative way of putting this is that the gay people have an additional 'cross to bear' so to speak... I am of course presuming that there is, at least, some genetic component to homosexuality)

It also seems unfair than some humans are born in a jungle somewhere where acts are commonplace that will cause God to torture them forever... there may be nobody to set them straight (not that I approve of missionary work)... so God has made it much more difficult for these jungle dwellers than he has for people who are born to heavily Catholic parents... (To say nothing of people born in ancient Greece for example who are doomed to worship a plethora of false Gods without realizing it, they are definitely hellbound)

So is God fundementally unfair? It seems crazy to me that people can be guilty of crimes they have no concept of (homosexuality among jungle dwellers or cavemen).. or babies can be guilty of the crimes of their parents (no baptism)... etc etc

PDN

JoeBallantine wrote: »

don't forget, even the thoughts a gay person may have would be enough to consign them to hell... this seems unfair. (I may be wrong on the thoughts issue but presumabely it is worse to lust after a same sex partner than it is to lust after an opposite sex partner.. but can we even control what we think or feel?... It doesn't feel like it to me..)

It seems like your beef is with Catholicism rather than Christianity in general, since many of your points don't apply to non-Catholic Christians.

However, I would think that Catholicism would not see lustful thoughts towards a member of the same sex as being any worse than lustful thoughts towards the opposite sex. That would certainly be my view.

graceface!

It's an interesting debate, certainly... I don't really how we are supposed to have a proper discussion, though, if we all come in guns a-blazing with our pre-formed ideas we are not willing to really consider...

Personally, I love a gay friend just the same way as I love a straight friend. In that sense, it doesn't make a difference. I agree with those here who have said that the above poll is over-simplistic and kinda restrictive in that most Christians - or indeed non-Christians - would not hold absolutely to either. It is not compatible with my beliefs to practice homosexuality, in an unrepentant manner (as in, denying it to be a sin at all), but TBH I think it is made out to be a much bigger issue than it really is.

I know this point has been made in various ways before, but here we go again - a lot of things, actions, beliefs and patterns of behaviour, go against Biblical teaching. Of course it has been argued that people are born homosexual (a fact which, to the best of my knowledge - I am open to correction - has not been scientifically proven), but I don't see how this ultimately affects an empirical discussion of whether or not it is compatible with practising Christianity.

People have many leanings that go against Biblical teaching which are not necessarily homosexuality - it is also a sin (and this is just the first example that springs to mind) to be violent, or to lash out at others in anger. Now, while I don't - fortunately - have an issue with violence, I have quite a predisposition to being ratty when the moods take me but however strong the urge is in me, I still have to acknowledge that it's wrong, and fight it. You may argue that this is not a valid analogy, since sexuality is bound to be a stronger leaning, but this is not necessarily the case and purely variant from person to person.

Anyway, I'm blabbing too much now. I'll stop:p

Design_Dude

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Design_Dude

I have found that for most people who say theyre gay, there has always been something missing or odd in their childhood. Take for instance our only outspoken gay politician, Senator Norris, he was raised predominatitly by his aunt, and lacked a father figure throught his childhood. In my opinion him being gay is his way of wanting a male figure in his life, to compensate for the lack thereof. I know many examples similar to this and they all have the same symptoms.

I believe that homosexuality is not natural and is a illness of the mind that can be cured.

Fanny Cradock

There was probably a time when I would have thought that myself. But it's a position I wouldn't now support. Whatever the reasons for homosexuality, I just don't see it boiling down to something as simple as not having a male figure in your childhood to keep the gay away, so to speak. A few anecdotal experiences of people who are gay and fit into the category you have outlined would probably be dwarfed by the number of gay people who grew up with an idealistic mother and father, or straight people who didn't have any father figure in their childhood.

Zombrex

Design_Dude wrote: »

I believe that homosexuality is not natural and is a illness of the mind that can be cured.

Its ok, a lot of people say that about Christianity :cool:

Killaqueen!!!

I know many gay people, and I get on fine with them. They're not very open about their sexuality and make a big deal about it so it's fine. They wouldn't be friends of mine but I think that when people question the idea of homophobia (I don't like that word but for simplicity sake..) they think we're all raving mad people who are waiting to burn gays at the stake. This is not true.

I wouldn't call myself a very good Christian, so maybe this view isn't relevant, but to me it is unnatural to be a homosexual. I don't see how it is natural. God wants women and men to be together. Not men and men, not women and women. It's pretty clear. A man and a woman may come together in the eyes of God if they love each other. That is God's plan. Even if you don't believe in God, how is it normal to be a homosexual? If you think about it, nature/evolution forbids it too. If homosexuals were supposed to be together why would the biology forbid it? (As in there's no way to reproduce).

I hope I don't offend anyone because although homosexuality to me is not right, it's not like taboo or anything, it's very common and as I said I know many gays. Unfortunately, my brother is gay also.

Most gays are atheists. This makes it difficult, because I believe that nobody is born gay, and that it is either a phase or a result of a 'different' childhood. I don't like to use the word 'cure' but if they remain homosexual surely they can't be (and they don't want to be) part of God's world. In that case, I suppose it is their choice and there is no reason they should not be allowed to live a civilised partnership with someone like the rest of us..even if it is same sex. They cannot live a religious life however.

Zombrex

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

Even if you don't believe in God, how is it normal to be a homosexual? If you think about it, nature/evolution forbids it too. If homosexuals were supposed to be together why would the biology forbid it? (As in there's no way to reproduce).

Well considering nature causes it I'm not sure what you mean by forbid it.

Using that logic nature "forbids" oral sex. I don't seem many Christians complaining about that

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

Most gays are atheists. This makes it difficult, because I believe that nobody is born gay, and that it is either a phase or a result of a 'different' childhood.

Wow, how could anyone possibly take offense at that ... :rolleyes:

Design_Dude

Wicknight wrote: »

Its ok, a lot of people say that about Christianity :cool:

Only ignorant people say that. Anyone with any discretion, would respect it as a valid viewpoint

Zombrex

Design_Dude wrote: »

Only ignorant people say that. Anyone with any discretion, would respect it as a valid viewpoint

Wow, you really walked straight into that ...

Dave!

Design_Dude wrote: »

Only ignorant people say that. Anyone with any discretion, would respect it as a valid viewpoint

LOL, what a joke!

Ekancone

Design_Dude wrote: »

Only ignorant people say that. Anyone with any discretion, would respect it as a valid viewpoint

How is it anymore valid than, say, the flying spaghetti monster? (Who thinks that gays are confused pirates)

Design_Dude

daithifleming wrote: »

How is it anymore valid than, say, the flying spaghetti monster? (Who thinks that gays are confused pirates)

Because it natural to belive in a higher power, and that theres more to life than we can see.

Nerin

Quote:
Originally Posted by daithifleming
How is it anymore valid than, say, the flying spaghetti monster? (Who thinks that gays are confused pirates)

Originally Posted by Design_Dude
Because it natural to belive in a higher power, and that theres more to life than we can see.

that wasnt the question

Ekancone

Design_Dude wrote: »

Because it natural to belive in a higher power, and that theres more to life than we can see.

Once you are not gay, of course. Because they are confused, and confused people never seek a higher power. :cool:

Design_Dude

daithifleming wrote: »

Once you are not gay, of course. Because they are confused, and confused people never seek a higher power. :cool:

nerin wrote: »

that wasnt the question

What was the question then??

Nerin

How is it anymore valid than, say, the flying spaghetti monster?

homah_7ft

Jakkass wrote: »

Also, masturbation generally comes with lustful thoughts. It's impossible to do so without.

So you believe a christian marriage should involve drugs such as viagra?

AckwelFoley

Lol X 4 at the "Gayness is an illness of the mind and can be cured"

Wow... :rolleyes:

Im speechless

Nerin

Lol X 4 at the "Gayness is an illness of the mind and can be cured"

Wow...

Im speechless

i know

AckwelFoley

Also, masturbation generally comes with lustful thoughts. It's impossible to do so without

Incorrect, the lustful thoughts come first... then the "sinning"

I am a sinner

PDN

homah_7ft wrote: »

So you believe a christian marriage should involve drugs such as viagra?

If the husband is suffering from erectile dysfunction then I would think that the use of viagra or similar drugs would make very good sense. Most Christians I know would see a healthy sex life as promoting a good marriage.

lolipops

i personally dont see whats wrong with two human beings loving each other, and we are much more than our physical being, i think we all have a right to love who we want, although im not into that sort of thing i dont have a problem with it. and those who discriminate against gay people are generally ignorant.