The majority DO NOT believe Ahern

zippy 99

So,

According to our national broadcaster:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0126/politics.html

the majority of perople do not believe Ahern.

This being a democracy and all, surley we should demand his resignation.

How can we let a (smug) man run out country if we do not trust him?

Any opinions??

Best Regards
Ian

Sherifu

What's your opinion?

Akrasia

And today the S.Indo are reporting that FF plan to use the FG motion of confidence in the tribunal to prevent the tribunal from investigating any of Aherns 'personal finances'.

It's a complete disgrace that they would try to shut down the investigation before it is completed.

zippy 99

rkm wrote: »

What's your opinion?

I'll quote Howard Beale, who sums up my opinion:

'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it:

'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!'

Dave!

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mheygbkfsnkf/rss2/

Support for FF up four points - Poll
27/01/2008 - 11:21:49

There has been a forceful turn in public opinion against the Taoiseach according to the first Sunday Business Post opinion poll of 2008.

However, despite 54% of all voters now saying they do not believe Bertie Ahern's evidence to the Mahon tribunal, support for the Fianna Fáil party was up four points to 36%.

Forty-six percent have said they do not trust the Taoiseach to run the country, that is up 11% since last September.

Fine Gael meanwhile is up one to 32%, its highest result since the polls began.


WTF?! I guess not surprising really.

ateam

Some voters are fickle. They will give a different response in 6 months time if the Ahern story is out of the news.

If it stays in the news and similar poll results come out, Ahern could be in trouble. But I doubt there's going to be any knee jerk reaction over one poll, I suspect most Fianna Fail TDs will wait for subsequent polls before hinting at Ahern's resignation.

zippy 99

ateam wrote: »

Some voters are fickle. They will give a different response in 6 months time if the Ahern story is out of the news.

If it stays in the news and similar poll results come out, Ahern could be in trouble. But I doubt there's going to be any knee jerk reaction over one poll, I suspect most Fianna Fail TDs will wait for subsequent polls before hinting at Ahern's resignation.

I wouldnt say fickle. Forgetful may be more appropriate. One of the reasons why history repeats itself.

Out with smug Bertie, NOW.

ateam

zippy 99 wrote: »

I wouldnt say fickle. Forgetful may be more appropriate. One of the reasons why history repeats itself.

Out with smug Bertie, NOW.

I heard on the radio and I would tend to agree, that there is a large section of Irish society that, well how do I put this, break the law regularly or try to avoid the system (I'm not suggesting that Ahern broke the law) and there is kind of an affinity or at least an understanding of what Ahern did. There could even be a sense of "Fair Play" attitude towards him. I mean if you received money off a group of friends, what would you do, ring the tax office? There are a lot of Irish people who have not paid taxes, I suspect the majority have worked for cash in hand etc.. So I do think there is a feeling among a large section of the population that they can not be critical of Ahern because that would be hypocritical. I do think there is a culture in Ireland of "beating the system".

However, there are limits to that culture which I think everyone accepts.

zippy 99

ateam wrote: »

I heard on the radio and I would tend to agree, that there is a large section of Irish society that, well how do I put this, break the law regularly or try to avoid the system (I'm not suggesting that Ahern broke the law) and there is kind of an affinity or at least an understanding of what Ahern did. There could even be a sense of "Fair Play" attitude towards him. I mean if you received money off a group of friends, what would you do, ring the tax office? There are a lot of Irish people who have not paid taxes, I suspect the majority have worked for cash in hand etc.. So I do think there is a feeling among a large section of the population that they can not be critical of Ahern because that would be hypocritical. I do think there is a culture in Ireland of "beating the system".

However, there are limits to that culture which I think everyone accepts.

People who think Ahern was right in beating the system (his system I might add, funny that) need their heads looked at.

The system is corrupt to the core, i'll admit that.

What about these people who think he was right, stand up with the people who think he was wrong and demand a new system.

Do you ever get the feeling smug Ahern is laughing at the lot of us plebs?

ateam

zippy 99 wrote: »

People who think Ahern was right in beating the system (his system I might add, funny that) need their heads looked at.

The system is corrupt to the core, i'll admit that.

What about these people who think he was right, stand up with the people who think he was wrong and demand a new system.

Do you ever get the feeling smug Ahern is laughing at the lot of us plebs?

I don't think people think he was right, just to be critical of him would be hypocritical because most Irish people do not have a clean financial or tax record. They know it wasn't right.

Sherifu

ateam wrote: »

I don't people think he was right, just to be critical of him would be hypocritical because most Irish people do not have a clean financial or tax record. They know it wasn't right.

Do you have anything to back this up?

Tea drinker

How can we let a (smug) man run out country if we do not trust him?
Well, the same we as we always do! They are going to tell us how it will be done, and we will sit on our arse.

I think we need a good bit more shafting before people get the picture.
The majority voted for him, we all have to live with it. I'm happy enough as long as the dumbo majority get a street education in politics - hence the need for more gruff shafting. A good few more years of it, maybe even another 5 years and they MIGHT get the message. Seriolusly, if you don't like Bertie, go vote for him, let's see him really soar.
The downturn in the economy is fantastic news here, just like in the states. We get a chance(excuse) to sort the public finances, yanks get a chance to sort credit/spend addiction, and restore confidence in the dollar. Will either country do it?

juuge

In order to become a 'leader' in anything, not just politics, one needs to be inspiring, honest and someone whom people can look up to and admire.
Does this describe bertie?
I don't think so.
The guy is laughing at us all, and of course the government support him.
What are we again?, oh yeah, a nation of gombeens. I'm beginning to agree.

ateam

rkm wrote: »

Do you have anything to back this up?

If you've lived and worked in Ireland you will know that there is a culture of underhandedness. As I said earlier, the majority of Irish people will have worked for cash in hand and not registered it with the tax office. That's just one small example.

However, there are some who go by the book.

zippy 99

ateam wrote: »

I don't think people think he was right, just to be critical of him would be hypocritical because most Irish people do not have a clean financial or tax record. They know it wasn't right.

Most people who have tried have been caught. I remember lists in the paper last year, a pure name and shame session.

I would love to be able to avoid taxes, but the government are all over me, no avoiding it, without being locked up.

I bet Ahern wont get locked up.

If the man at the top dosent believe in the system, how are we supposed to respect either him or the state.

Regular joe six pack dosent get tax breaks like the big shots.

Out with smug Ahern.

Sherifu

ateam wrote: »

If you've lived and worked in Ireland you will know that there is a culture of underhandedness. As I said earlier, the majority of Irish people will have worked for cash in hand and not registered it with the tax office. That's just one small example.

However, there are some who go by the book.

So you have nothing to back it up then.

ateam

rkm wrote: »

So you have nothing to back it up then.

Suppose I don't have statistical facts to back it up, no. But clearly if you've lived here, you know that rules aren't always obeyed.

Another example I can think of is taxi men turning off their metre and giving you an arbitrary price - the taxi man doesn't register it and the customer gets a cheaper fare. Happens regularly in Ireland.

Sherifu

ateam wrote: »

Suppose I don't have statistical facts to back it up, no. But clearly if you've lived here, you know that rules aren't always obeyed.

Another example I can think of is taxi men turning off their metre and giving you an arbitrary price - the taxi man doesn't register it and the customer gets a cheaper fare. Happens regularly in Ireland.

I just think it's a bit harsh to say the majority of Irish people are tax dodgers without any kind of proof.

ateam

rkm wrote: »

I just think it's a bit harsh to say the majority of Irish people are tax dodgers without any kind of proof.

I didn't mean that if that's what you interpreted it as. I just meant that no one in Ireland has a perfect and clean tax or financial record. That can include getting an extra days pay by mistake and getting away with it, using the work phone to make long distance calls, using the company credit card for more than you're supposed to etc...get my drift? All of that type of thing everyone has done.

zippy 99

ateam wrote: »

I didn't mean that if that's what you interpreted it as. I just meant that no one in Ireland has a perfect and clean tax or financial record. That can include getting an extra days pay by mistake and getting away with it, using the work phone to make long distance calls, using the company credit card for more than you're supposed to etc...get my drift? All of that type of thing everyone has done.

Back on topic guys. Ahern is a scammer, must resign.

stepbar

It's no wonder, with 4 four different stories, questions on what currency he was paid in, question over why he spent 30k on a house that was 2 years old, why he needed the money in the first place when he had 50k in savings and dubious transactions between himself and celia larkin....... It's no wonder at all.

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

It's no wonder, with 4 four different stories, questions on what currency he was paid in, question over why he spent 30k on a house that was 2 years old, why he needed the money in the first place when he had 50k in savings and dubious transactions between himself and celia larkin....... It's no wonder at all.

Mmmm..... and his relationship with Mr Turner and his Manchester buddies...... - http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0130/ahernb.html

Ahern must think the people of the nation are gobsh1tes.

El Stuntman

trying to follow this latest one: please correct me where wrong

1. so Bertie's bagman got $10k from Turner as 'a political donation'

2. Turner is trying to build a massive development in Dublin

3. this money wasn't given to Fianna Fail

4. Bertie helps Turner to get a passport, 'No favours asked for or given', lol.

I have to hold my nose, this smells really bad

Red Alert

Turner conveniently chooses then not to visit the tribunal.

duggie-89

yea i agree, bertie out the people dont believe him any longer and its such a shame that FF got in the last election.

"the night is darkest just before the dawn" and its going to get alot darker before it gets better for us all with bertie in charge.

djpbarry

duggie-89 wrote: »

bertie out the people dont believe him any longer and its such a shame that FF got in the last election.

A shame? FF "got in" in the last election because a whole load of people voted for them. A whole load of people in my constituency voted for Bertie and most would probably still stand by him no matter what he does. He's a man of the people don't ye know?!?

Jonny Arson

El Stuntman wrote: »

4. Bertie helps Turner to get a passport, 'No favours asked for or given', lol.

and according to Phil Hogan TD, good aul' Bertie by a miraculous coincidence lodged £20,000 of his £50,000 'savings' into his bank (yes, those 'savings' that he had while he was 'broke') on the day before the passport was issued!

what are the chances, lol

gurramok

Way too many co-incidences.

This latest Turner thing is what looks like the nail in the coffin.

Above all people its Bertie who pushed the application for a casino proposer to get a passport. It wasn't another member of FF, but Bertie himself as Minster of Finance and then leader of FF that year.
If this was the UK, he'd be out like Hain at the first shim of any wrongdoing.

stepbar

A shur it's all a coincidence...... no doubt Mahon will iron out all those coincidences :rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

gurramok wrote: »

Way too many co-incidences.

This latest Turner thing is what looks like the nail in the coffin.

Above all people its Bertie who pushed the application for a casino proposer to get a passport. It wasn't another member of FF, but Bertie himself as Minster of Finance and then leader of FF that year.
If this was the UK, he'd be out like Hain at the first shim of any wrongdoing.

No, I do not think Bertie will go, he puts a spin on everything retro that may appear to the public to be not quite right. He just cannot see or will not accept that people are perhaps unhappy with all these allegations, perhaps he does not care even, as he is the Gaffer or so he tells himself. On top of that nobody in the FF party has the balls to make a move. Fianna "Fails" more like.

eoin5

Ugh, people have thrown sh1t at him and after a fair bit of bandying about its stuck. He should be gone, next!

This attachment to our celeb politicians is really doing our country in (as well as my head). We need to stop focusing on the scandal and get the ball rolling again.