The majority DO NOT believe Ahern

Seth Brundle

ateam wrote: »

I don't think people think he was right, just to be critical of him would be hypocritical because most Irish people do not have a clean financial or tax record. They know it wasn't right.

Whether the Irish have dodged taxes is largely irrelevant to the Bertie argument. Bertie was the minister in charge of the taxes he seems to have been dodging!

Maskhadov

he is almost a criminal, hope he goes soon !

Mr.Micro

Well a motion was passed in the Dail yesterday that will effectively enable Ministers if so desired to muzzle or even close the Mahon tribunal in the future(The Irish Mail Feb 1st 08). So I suppose Bertie will have the power ( or do by proxy via his ministers) to stop any further investigations if it gets too hot or protracted.

dRNk SAnTA

Isn't ahern now the definition of a "lame duck". What is he waiting for, resign already!

moe_sizlak

just because most irish people dont believe bertie doesnt in any way mean most irish people think he should resign
ive said it before , most irish people are not bothered with a bit of corruption
were more like the italians that way than the britts or northern europeans
a few yrs back a minister in sweeden had to resign because it was discovered that he was paying his housekeeper in cash , in the uk blunket a few yrs back resigned because it was discovered he fastracked a work visa for a nanny who worked for him
here a td would need to be found with bodies in the boot of his car for the word resignation to be mentioned

as eddie hobbs said after the election last yr when asked about ff success and the greens no change , we in ireland like our politicians a little bit DIRTY

stepbar

And now there's a house......

http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/News/Home%20News&id=83589&SUBCAT=Tribune/News&SUBCATNAME=News

What next Bertie? A farm in Mullingar?

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

What next Bertie? A farm in Mullingar?

Celia's house..... :rolleyes:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0222/ahernb.html

redspider

> This being a democracy and all, surley we should demand his resignation.

Well, the people had a vote not so long ago and they voted in their droves for FF and as a consequence Bertie. We hear people complaining about Bertie, his underhandness and its obvious to the dogs on the street that he was involved in doing underhand things for cash (ie: taking bribes), and people are sick to the back teeth of the poor health service, yet what do the people do, vote FF back IN! Go figure.

We get the politicians and the system we vote for alas. Bertie and the now 3rd term FF-led government are laughing all the way, to the bank as well sometimes.

Lets put a poll on here and see what his standing is on this forum .....

Redspider

jprender

He's got balls made of brass the size of the moon.

Turning up at the tribunal spouting out that bullsh1t.
Obviously believes that the public are just in the majority a bunch of morons, or "ticks" he would probably say himself.

Sick of him for a long time now, if he had any decency in him he would just fook off.

ps. i hate him

Seth Brundle

If only CJ could see Bertie now - he would be so proud!

greatdeeds

Ahern defends legal counsel's criticisms of tribunal
23/02/2008 - 18:40:05

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has today been defending his legal counsel's criticisms of the Mahon Tribunal following yesterday's heated exchanges between Judge Alan Mahon and Conor Maguire.

Ahern also said he will not resign over revelations that his former partner Celia Larkin received a loan of 30 thousand pounds from a Fianna Fáil fundraising account to buy a house.

Speaking in Offaly today, Ahern said those interrogating him also act as advisors to the tribunal, while his counsel has no input.

Maskhadov

daughter disowned him, say no more

Mr.Micro

Mr.Ahern I do believe often claimed credit for FF instigating the tribunals in the first place. I will bet he never dreamed of the hound he let loose coming to try and bite him. Thats the outrage IMO that he often appears to portray, that comes across as irritation and anger on being questioned. For a man that claimed he was going to reveal all to the Tribunal at the appropriate time rather than before the General election he appears to be very angry at the least question he is asked and is intent IMO in drawing the whole issue out.

tech77

kbannon wrote: »

Whether the Irish have dodged taxes is largely irrelevant to the Bertie argument. Bertie was the minister in charge of the taxes he seems to have been dodging!

Plus fcuking one.
He's the leader of the fcuking country.
If anyone should pay their taxes he should (if only to set a good example).

That argument that it would be hypocritical for Joe soap tax dodger to call for his head is horse$hit.
He, more than anyone, should be beyond reproach in this regard.
Sort out the other tax-dodgers after that.

tech77

jprender wrote: »

ps. i hate him

Ha, just in case we missed it.

Curiously there is not one post defending this man in this thread (IIRC)- says a lot.
I can only presume his situation is genuinely indefensible.

Yet (last time i checked at least) this clown was still in office.
Amazing.

2Scoops

tech77 wrote: »

Curiously there is not one post defending this man in this thread (IIRC)- says a lot.
I can only presume his situation is genuinely indefensible.

Yes, indeed! There was a time when the cool ironic people could take the clever route of defending Bertie when it was unpopular to do so. But with each passing day another part of the truth comes to light and it gets harder and harder to defend the man. Those people are silent now. Even the worst Bertie apologists were stung by the tax issue (woe betide the man that gets between the Irish and their money!).

The sad part is he can't be fired - he has to resign, or be made resign. Frankly, the decision should not be up to him. But the man has a brass neck and will go to the grave saying he never did anything wrong. Resigning would be an admission of guilt.

Seth Brundle

What gets me more is the attitude change by the Green Party. Prior to getting married to FF they were quite vocal on the matter. Now they don't want to ruffle feathers and come out with shíte like this:
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/gormley-mahon-revelations-distracting-government-1296350.html
I understand that the GP want to stay in Government so that they can carry out their plans of getting rid of all cars etc. but for them to become effectively silent on the matter is shameful!

is_that_so

Well they are part of a bigger Green party. Interesting piece in Business Post today on the whole thing. I have to say I can see the last days of Blair at work here.
I don't think the Greens particularly care any more, and they have established their get out of jail mantra; "wait till we get the report" to cover themselves. Things are going well enough for them, their poll numbers are up, they now have more members, they have "implemented" some of their policies and thankfully there won't be an election of any kind in sight for another year. I can't help feeling that they seem to be affected by the same mysterious blindness that the rest of government is afflicted by.

tech77

kbannon wrote: »

What gets me more is the attitude change by the Green Party. Prior to getting married to FF they were quite vocal on the matter. Now they don't want to ruffle feathers and come out with shíte like this: http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/gormley-mahon-revelations-distracting-government-1296350.html I understand that the GP want to stay in Government so that they can carry out their plans of getting rid of all cars etc. but for them to become effectively silent on the matter is shameful!

Gormless Gormley and his band of spineless u-turners make me sick since they got into government.
Maybe if they shut up about Bertie's finances BEFORE getting into Government their position wouldn't look so laughable now.
The whole thing is depressing.

Red Alert

The circle of disbelief is now growing a lot wider - I no longer can trust others both in FF and the green party like my own TD Eamonn Ryan because they will not stand up for what they were elected for.

juuge

Bertie will go - there is no way back for him now, his credibility is shattered. What is scary now is that we are left with a band of senior ministers who can see no wrong in all of this . That's the worrying part.

Mr.Micro

I don't think the Greens particularly care any more, and they have established their get out of jail mantra; "wait till we get the report" to cover themselves.Quote; is that so

We all suspect that this report will not be published for some considerable time, probably long after Mr.Ahern has left office. Indeed Mr.Ahern's latest legal challenge re privilege/The Dail and the Constitution may delay the proceedings another 6 months, and if there are further challenges then even further. So the Greens will use the final report card I suspect. I listened to Eamon Ryan speak on some TV byte about a week ago on some issue and he sounded remarkably Fianna Fail-esque

murphaph

Watching this despicable man on TV yesterday was its usual sickening self. He's not even that clever and certainly shouldn't be running this country. He's a chancer who got lucky IMO. He arrived on the scene at the right time and in a tougher economic climate he would have been sent packing by even a dopey irish electorate.

I'm not party political in the slightest and I even voted FF 1, 2 in the second last election (to my eternal shame) but I absolutely detest them now and will never ever believe they are capable of honest government and will never give any FF'er the vote again. They join SF on my list there.

Ahern claimed that his constituency office lent the 30k to Cecelia in "an emergency situation" but if the constituency office needed it back "at short notice" it would have had it back. This is patent bullsh!t cos if she didn't have it to hand quickly the first time how would she produce it at short notice to give it back should t be needed?!

This man would have been despatched months ago if he were PM over the water. We left the UK for this sort of arrogant b0llix to run the show getting paid more than the british prime minister? We are a fcuking laughing stock of a country. You still see arseholes atanding outside Dublin Castle cheering Ahern the crook on as he leaves. Are these people missing a few genes?

LostinBlanch

Spot on IMO. Nice dig at the Greens and Harney's behaviour in the final paragraphs.

http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/News/Comment&id=83915&SUBCAT=Tribune/News&SUBCATNAME=News

EAMON GILMORE was right. It is an embarrassment. Politics is being shamed. Public life is being discredited. And Fianna Fail is being thrust back into the unethical behaviour of the Haughey era. Now the endgame has been reached. Bertie Ahern has to go. His continuation in office is damaging public life, undermining the profession of politics and smearing his party and its members.

Seventeen months ago, this newspaper took the view that by taking money from strangers at a function in Manchester when he was Minister for Finance Ahern was unfit for office. We stand by that view. The original revelations were sufficiently serious to end most political careers. Yet Ahern, despite public disbelief at his story, continued in office and formed a new administration last summer. However, the new information which has emerged . . . not just last week but over the last five months . . . has significantly undermined Ahern's initial explanations about his financial affairs.

The controversy has raised questions about Ahern's tax status, his banking records and now his handling of Fianna Fail money. The latest revelations that money given to Fianna Fail was used for non-political purposes only adds to 17 months of unusual and unexplained financial transactions.

How much of what the Taoiseach has said in public, in the Dail or at the Mahon tribunal can be taken as the truth? We can no longer wait for the tribunal to conclude its business.

We know enough now to conclude that politics would be better served with Ahern's departure.

The Taoiseach travels to Washington at the end of April to address a joint meeting of the US houses of congress. The invitation is a notable honour and reflects on the positive role played by many people, including Ahern, in the peace process in Northern Ireland. The Washington trip should mark his farewell as Taoiseach. The tribunal can continue and reach its ultimate conclusion. But, in the meantime, the damage and distraction arising from Ahern's finances would be concluded. And the politicians who run the country can get back to doing the job they were sent to Leinster House to do. If Ahern does not signal a willingness to go shortly, others must act.

Between Brian Cowen and his Fianna Fail supporters, there must be somebody who is prepared to stand up and defend high standards for public office holders. The vast majority of the party's grassroots are honest and well intentioned people. They must be deeply concerned about what has emerged about the use of Fianna Fail money in Ahern's Dublin Central constituency. There appears to have been more than one Fianna Fail organisation in Dublin Central, and this goes beyond the normal competition and rivalries that exist between different factions in any single constituency. The evidence shows that the line between private gain and activity in public life was crossed.

Others also have a responsibility. Ahern's future is not just a matter for Fianna Fail. Neither John Gormley nor Mary Harney can hide behind the mantra that the tribunal must be allowed to conclude its business. The Green Party are making a worthwhile contribution to the current coalition government.

But their ministers' reputations are tainted by refusing to be honest about the embarrassment that Ahern now brings on public life.

And while the Progressive Democrats struggle to find a future role, Harney and her colleagues would do well to remember their founding role as promoters of ethical standards in public office. Would Des O'Malley or Bobby Molloy have tolerated the evidence that has emerged in recent days? And that is the nub of this whole affair, Ahern's behaviour should not be tolerated. He should resign.

Ardent

murphaph wrote: »

You still see arseholes atanding outside Dublin Castle cheering Ahern the crook on as he leaves. Are these people missing a few genes?

Look in the mirror - you voted for him in the last election! And this was at a time when major questions were being asked about Ahern's finances while acting as Minister for Finance.

Jail would be too good for the f**ker.

Dave!

murphaph said he voted for them in the second last election

murphaph

Ardent wrote: »

Look in the mirror - you voted for him in the last election!

^^^What Dave said^^^

Ardent

My apologies, I misread your post murph.

I got a taxi this morning and the driver brought up Bertiegate in conversation. I was saying to him that I couldn't understand how people voted Bertie and his cronies back in last time around. His response was "ah sure all them politicians are all the same anyway" and "i just don't like that Kenny fella". No wonder this country is on the slide.

Dave!

Any of ye hear the strong words from Dan Boyle on Newstalk today? He said that he, and he believes the Green party, would prefer that the Taoiseach did not take legal action against the Tribunal, and that Dail confidentiality/whatever should be used judiciously (and that the tribunal is being delayed by the Taoiseach's answers).

He also said that Bertie should think about naming a date to stand down.

Looks like the end is nigh for Bertrude!

Seth Brundle

Well it appears that John Gormless isn't too bothered by it: www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojauojmhcw