Alfa 159 Vs Accord

BnA

Like half the country, I have put off changing a car (my wife's) untill after July to gain from the reduced VRT and tax on a good diesel.

The only problem is, I have too much time on my hands now. I had as good as decided before Christmas to buy a 06ish Passat. A big family car with a good re-sale value. However, since Christmas I have switched very much towards the 2.2 Accord. A much classier looking car with a great reliability record.

This weekend though, I was looking on Autotrader at 159's. Like the accord, when I looked at them briefly back in December, they were out of my price range. But with them being 6 months older in June and with reduced VRT and sterling going wonky, it has become affordable.

I haven't driven a 159 and I would of course drive one locally before I go over. But if reviews etc. are to believed, it is a fantastic car to drive. Also, tax and running costs are about the same as the Accord.

Now, I didn't even mention it to my wife because, if I do, there would be no going back. She simply loves them and if I tell her we can afford one..... that's it.... she'll want one.

I have two worries.

The first is the old... reliability. I know people have very strong opinions both ways on the 156 and I don't want to go down that road again. But I haven't heard too many reports (good or bad) on the 159. Alfa (of course) claim it has improved a lot with these. I would live to hear from someone that actually has one. Particularly if you have the 1.9 diesel as that's the one I'd get.

Secondly (and possibly a bigger worry for me) is depreciation and how easy it will be to sell. Normally I don't look at this too much as we would hold onto a car for a few years. However, we have two kids now and there is a chance in a year or two we might have three. At that stage we would be in people carrier territory and might have to sell the Alfa. I don't want to buy something now that's going to lose 5 or 6 grand in a year and\or is going to be nigh on imporrible to sell.

Padraig Mor

Are you looking at 06 Accords and 159s as well? Their tax won't be reducing in July. Only new cars I'm afraid! In fact, their tax is going UP 9.5% next month!

edit: unless you're bring in from the UK that is!

Biro

BnA wrote: »

I don't want to buy something now that's going to lose 5 or 6 grand in a year and\or is going to be nigh on imporrible to sell.

5 or 6 grand in a year? EVERYTHING in that price range will drop at least that much, even the Passat which is probably the lowest depreciating car in that class. If you don't believe me ring any garage for an approximate upgrade price to a new car and tell them your current car is a Jan '07 of that model with, say 45,000 kms and see!
It's hard to judge the 159 for reliability. The engine is around a while, and is in Opels, Saabs, Fiat's and Alfas, and by all accounts is an excellent unit. I don't know of any problems with it. The 159 comes I think with 3 year free servicing also, which is nice. It seems to be holding it's value, as they're rare on our roads they're still worth money. Look up '06 ones (that's when they came out) and they're still worth within €10k of their new price, which is about right for anything in that price range. They seem to be solidly built alright.

BnA

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Are you looking at 06 Accords and 159s as well? Their tax won't be reducing in July. Only new cars I'm afraid! In fact, their tax is going UP 9.5% next month!

edit: unless you're bring in from the UK that is!

It's 06 \ 07 diesels I'd be looking at in both and yes, I'd definately be importing.

BnA

Biro wrote: »

5 or 6 grand in a year? EVERYTHING in that price range will drop at least that much, even the Passat which is probably the lowest depreciating car in that class. If you don't believe me ring any garage for an approximate upgrade price to a new car and tell them your current car is a Jan '07 of that model with, say 45,000 kms and see!
It's hard to judge the 159 for reliability. The engine is around a while, and is in Opels, Saabs, Fiat's and Alfas, and by all accounts is an excellent unit. I don't know of any problems with it. The 159 comes I think with 3 year free servicing also, which is nice. It seems to be holding it's value, as they're rare on our roads they're still worth money. Look up '06 ones (that's when they came out) and they're still worth within €10k of their new price, which is about right for anything in that price range. They seem to be solidly built alright.

RE the depreciation. I wouldn't be buying span new. (I'm not insane) I'd be looking at something around 1 to 2 years old. Do you still think the depreciation would be as bad ?

TomMc

The Alfa will not be hard to sell if its the right engine/colour/extras, but you will lose 5 or 6K on a nearly new car. The only way this may be reduced or minimised is as you say if you import it from the UK and do well on price and sterling, and it is brought in after the tax changes have come into force. Lots of people would not go through the hassle of importing so if you do come to sell a 159 you have brought in yourself, you should have a good car for sale at a fair price.

With a new model Accord coming that will hurt residuals soon enough. The Passat is dull, so why settle for such mediocrity for the sake of a few quid. If I was you I would wait 6 to 9 months and see what the family situation is. I reckon in a years time importing the new Legacy diesel (from the UK) will be the thinking man's best used car buy of all.

prospect

159 is holding value fairly well, although it is still early-ish days. Also, the reliability is very good so far.

My Dad has the 2.4 Jtd, and bar a rear number plate bulb going, it has been fine. Fantastic to drive, very good handling.

endplate

The 159 is defo the best looker in that class at the moment. It does have a 3 year warrenty too. Don't know rightly if the 3 year servicing is still available it's gone off the alfa website for some time now. The 1.9 JDTM engine i believe can throw a timing belt at 40,000K and other than a few rattles it seems to be getting great reviews from a bit of research I've done on it. The Honda well it's a Honda so it's an auto thumbs up. But the Alfa is nicer:D

Henry Ford III

159 vs Accord? Chalk and cheese imho.

In the UK particularly Accord's are still viewed very much as cars for older people.

All cars will depreciate. VW's are a little better than some, and Alfa's historically very poor. If you want to buy a 159 the key is what you pay for it. Haggle hard as a cash customer. Get an indication of value from www.revenue.ie.

Hotwheels

I have the 159 JTDm and have just passed the 50K miles marker, All I can say is it's a hoot to drive...lives for twisty stuff
The build quality is excellent and it did come with free servicing for 3 years...
MPG for the 1.9 is about 43-47, and is a good mile muncher...
Other then tyres & Diesel I've spent nowt else on it...
I'll be back for another one for sure...got it here and found them good...
best of luck...

BnA

Hotwheels wrote: »

I have the 159 JTDm and have just passed the 50K miles marker, All I can say is it's a hoot to drive...lives for twisty stuff
The build quality is excellent and it did come with free servicing for 3 years...
MPG for the 1.9 is about 43-47, and is a good mile muncher...
Other then tyres & Diesel I've spent nowt else on it...
I'll be back for another one for sure...got it here and found them good...
best of luck...

I've done the sums as follows :

For this car : http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/ALFA+ROMEO+159/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-51-4294964980-4294967222/advert.action?R=200803302191088&distance=323&postcode=AB10+1AQ&channel=CARS&make=ALFA+ROMEO&model=159&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=

Purchace Price £ 13,000
Converted to Euro € 17,500

Current Open Market Selling Value (from revenue.ie) € 26,569

VRT after June (@ 24%) € 6,376

Total Price after June, around € 24k

The cheapest one on Carzone is from Frank Fahy on the Naas road for € 26k

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=897108

Anan1

STG£13,000 is around €19,500. Add in the cost of bringing it home, and it becomes more expensive than the one in Frank Fahy. I'm sure you'd buy one here privately for less again.

Cyrus

anan1 have you seen the £ € ex rate recently

Anan1

Cyrus wrote: »

anan1 have you seen the £ € ex rate recently

I stand corrected. Happy days!

BnA

Anan1 wrote: »

I stand corrected. Happy days!

Exactly.

I just hope it last's till June.

Biro

BnA wrote: »

Exactly.

I just hope it last's till June.

Bear in mind that you won't get the same exchange rate to change your money than xe.com will show you. The bank like to make a profit! Also the cost of going over and coming back shouldn't be underestimated. Plus the Irish diesels might drop in value a little after July in order to win the sale over people's imported ones, and the OMSP might increase in order for Revenue to make more money. They like making money too!

BnA

Biro wrote: »

Bear in mind that you won't get the same exchange rate to change your money than xe.com will show you. The bank like to make a profit! Also the cost of going over and coming back shouldn't be underestimated. Plus the Irish diesels might drop in value a little after July in order to win the sale over people's imported ones, and the OMSP might increase in order for Revenue to make more money. They like making money too!

Ah, the cost of driving it back isn't too much. You can make it expensive by staying the night or something like that. But I've done it 4 times before and in general it costs me about €400. I fly in the afternoon. Train to where I'm picking up. Drive to Holyhead for the 2:30 am ferry. Sleep in the childrens play area of the canteen (which is deserted on an over night). Arrive in Dublin at 6. Drive home to Limerick and in work for 9:30.

Plane €75
Train €75
Boat €100
Juice €100
Food/Misc €50

I would be concerned about the OMSP alright. The VRT crowd like their pound of flesh and are often very quick to horse up the OMSP of a car when they see that a lot of them are being brought in. However, whatever it is I go for, I intend to bring it over in June and park it up in a shed for a few weeks and then go in, on the first of July and register it.

Of course, I could win or lose here.

a) The OMSP might go up in a few weeks\months because a lot of them are coming in. (Particularly with the accords as a lot of people are talking about bringing these in)

or

b) The OMSP could go down because the market will be flooded with cheaper UK imports !!!!

Biro

Sure it's worth a risk anyway!

JHMEG

BnA wrote: »

Plane €75
Train €75

€75 on the plane = you flew with the wrong airline
€75 on the train = you flew into the wrong airport

It cost me €200 all in both times I did it.

Sandwich

BnA wrote: »

I don't want to buy something now that's going to lose 5 or 6 grand in a year and\or is going to be nigh on imporrible to sell.

For the type of money you are talking about you will loose 5 or 6k no matter which you buy.

Even with more extreme examples, "High depreciation" really only applies to cars in the first 2 or 3 years of their lives (excluding exotic stuff) - eg. VW lower depreciation than a Citroen. After that though, its more or less equal for most cars and is proportionate to its value when you buy it eg. Two 35k new cars : a 3 year old Passat bought for 20k will loose 4-5k in the following year : a 2 year old 405 bought for the same 20k will loose approx 5k in the following year also - despite having dropped more than the VW in the preceding years. (Numbers just an example).

BnA

JHMEG wrote: »

€75 on the plane = you flew with the wrong airline
€75 on the train = you flew into the wrong airport

It cost me €200 all in both times I did it.

Ah sure, I know that. But you have to budget for the worst case scenario. Flights aren't always cheap if you're buying at the last minute (if you spotted a bargin or something of the exact spec you were looking for.) Also, trains can be expensive, if you have to travel a bit to get to the car, again €75 is a worst case scenario.

Likewise, I budgeted €100 for juice. Half that would probably do if you were bringing in a good diesel.

BnA

Sandwich wrote: »

For the type of money you are talking about you will loose 5 or 6k no matter which you buy.

Even with more extreme examples, "High depreciation" really only applies to cars in the first 2 or 3 years of their lives (excluding exotic stuff) - eg. VW lower depreciation than a Citroen. After that though, its more or less equal for most cars and is proportionate to its value when you buy it eg. Two 35k new cars : a 3 year old Passat bought for 20k will loose 4-5k in the following year : a 2 year old 405 bought for the same 20k will loose approx 5k in the following year also - despite having dropped more than the VW in the preceding years. (Numbers just an example).

Good point.


Thanks to all for all the info\opinions. Much appreciated. Unless something drastic happens with Sterling between now and June, I'd say I'll go for it.

agent_smith

Im in the same boat as you. I have a car that at the moment i am not too fond of. Im thinking of selling my bike since it is not getting much use and upgrading the car to something more fun like an alf159 , 3 series or something.
Ive test driven them all, and so far the only one that blew me away drive wise , and styling was the alfa but im worried too about the depreciation.
But having looked into it , it would appear that most alfa 159's on carzone are depreciating as well as the opposition given their mileage so so far so good. Build quality this time round is supposed to be up there with the rivals too but it can take a while to shift a bad rep.
With regard to the drop in diesel prices, I do not forsee the diesel alfa159 going down in price at all. It is already practically the same price as the petrol and well undercuts the opposition. The VRT on the 1.9 jtdm will go from 30% to 24%. I was told my local alfa garage that there is a price hike planned in april. So that will probably absorb any depreciated price in july. If you want the alfa i say buy now. The honda on the other hand will see bigger vrt savings in july, but having driven it IMHO is not as nice to drive. Although i would imagine the new accord that will be out by then will come with a stonking good diesel.