No insurance and I meet the Gardai - what next?

egan007

great unwashed wrote: »

I am a 2nd provisional licence driver awaiting a driving test. Over the weekend I bought a much newer car than the one I have and this morning, before insuring it over the phone I literally took it for a spin in a quiet country lane around my house where the boys in blue aren't normally parked. Not this morning. They impounded my car, fined me €125 and said I would be prosecuted. Not very pleasant but I did break the law I suppose.

I have never been to court for anything. I really don't know what to expect or what will happen. What do they usually do for offences like this?

I believe there is scope here to meet the Guard and explain your situation. You have no convictions, a good job, you are a nice person (assuming this is true) I know someone with a similar issue and the Guard let him off. Mainly because he was polite explained his case and convinced the Guard that he was not a scumbag.

egan007

The Muppet wrote: »

The OP knowingly drove without insurance, there is no excuse for that under any circumstances.

A meteor strikes earth, you are the last person alive. You happen to be standing in front of an enzo ferrari with the engine running.
You are not insured....

My statement is an exaggeration but it's point is to demonstrate that your statement is wrong for so many reasons. It's a general statement, and has no scope for reasonable argument. It's an option that is right wing in it's foundations and not advice.

The OP is looking for advice.

LuckyStar

egan007 wrote: »

You have no convictions, a good job, you are a nice person (assuming this is true) I know someone with a similar issue and the Guard let him off. Mainly because he was polite explained his case and convinced the Guard that he was not a scumbag.

What difference does it make what his job is, if he is a "nice person", or not a scumbag?? If a family member of yours was knocked down in the morning by a "nice person with a good job" would you say "ah feck it, sure it wasn't a scumbag so no harm"? No, you wouldn't. It's not the person YOU are, it's the driver you are!

Duckjob

The Muppet wrote: »

There is no doubt that the PC brigade are alive and well and posting on this forum but in this instance I don't think that applies. The OP knowingly drove without insurance, there is no excuse for that under any circumstances.

Sorry OP but no sympathy here either, you deserve a severe punishment . A years ban and a hefty fine should ensure that you learn the lesson that insurance is not an optional extra.

Point proven.

Had the thread title been 'No insurance and I meet the Gardai, aren't I a great lad?', your post would've been an excellent one.

Dub6Kevin

Well, it was stupid but you know that already...

So, if the Guards impounded the car it is going to cost you a fair few quid. You have to pay the cost of it's removal (if they had to hire someone to collect it) and storage charges. It could well add up to a couple of hundred euro. They will not release it until either it is collected by a tow-truck or you produce a valid insurance cert to drive it away.

I say this to show that whether or not this goes to court, you will be punished. That means the Guard might be prepared to exercise a little discretion in relation to pursuing the prosecution.

If you are a young lad, get your Dad or someone else older to go to the Garda Station with you when you're collecting the car. Apologise profusely and explain exactly the true story. Bring any evidence you have (receipt of payment for the car etc).

When you are reclaiming the car, get the person with you to have a quiet word with the Guard. Have them explain the fact that you are very very sorry, have been really upset by the experience, that your family are mortified and are giving you loads of grief, that you need to be able to drive for college/work and that you have had to borrow the money to reclaim the car and will be paying it off over the next few months. Ask if there is any chance the Guard might consider not seeking a prosecution.

It may not work but, providing the Guard is convinced of your sincerity, if it does go to court he is quite likely to speak up for you and might help minimise the sentence.

Good luck with it.

egan007

LuckyStar wrote: »

What difference does it make what his job is, if he is a "nice person", or not a scumbag?? If a family member of yours was knocked down in the morning by a "nice person with a good job" would you say "ah feck it, sure it wasn't a scumbag so no harm"? No, you wouldn't. It's not the person YOU are, it's the driver you are!

It makes a big difference!
What are you talking about? nobody got knocked down.
This would be an entirely different matter if someone got killed.
You sound like an FF politician.

The difference seeing you clearly need it spelled out is that:

Joe Scumbag is driving every day,increasing the possibility of an accident, in his no NCT no insurance banger bleeding the state dry of every benefit available. He spends the night fighting.

Joe public took a car which he worked for out for a spin once on a quiet country road.

Joe Public made a mistake, a bad judgment.
Joe Scumbag made no mistake.

jhegarty

I though driving without insurance was just 5 points and the car impounded now ?

or did I missing something ?

great unwashed

egan007 wrote: »

It makes a big difference!
What are you talking about? nobody got knocked down.
This would be an entirely different matter if someone got killed.
You sound like an FF politician.

The difference seeing you clearly need it spelled out is that:

Joe Scumbag is driving every day,increasing the possibility of an accident, in his no NCT no insurance banger bleeding the state dry of every benefit available. He spends the night fighting.

Joe public took a car which he worked for out for a spin once on a quiet country road.

Joe Public made a mistake, a bad judgment.
Joe Scumbag made no mistake.

I have a public job as you say and in reply to another poster I am in my thirties not twenties so you'd imagine I should have known better. The garda are not going to entertain me because he said I would be summonsed for sure and the paperwork was being done yesterday at the station. As someone else said, it's really really awful emotionally to have to face prosecution for such stupidity but that's the law and I took it into my own hands.

Do people normally get a solicitor and how does that have a bearing on the sentence? Because, I have no defence - I knowingly did what I did and am prepared to pay the penalty and yes I am wracked with remorse as I should be.

Seth Brundle

denashpot wrote: »

unlucky mate. the guards are p***ks. if u stole the f**king thing and said you had an alcohol problem like all the scum do you be sent for treatment for a couple of weeks and thats it!!!

You know all of our 12,000 gardai? Fair play!
Still, there is no need for an offensive post like that. Consider yourself warned!

great unwashed

jhegarty wrote: »

I though driving without insurance was just 5 points and the car impounded now ?

or did I missing something ?

This is from a legal website

Driving without insurance is generally punishable by a fine of up to €2,500, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year. Where the court decides not to impose a disqualification, drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insruance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.

Boggles

What if he killed someone, what if he knocked down a young girl with a new born, what if, what if....Where is the comfort in killing someone insured opposed to uninsured. "I'm sorry your child is dead but tis grand the driver had 3rd party".

He drove down a quiet road at 25 mph, he was unlucky and pulled by the guards. There the facts lads stick to them.

He has been charged with driving without insurance not being involved in an accident without insurance.

Boggles

great unwashed wrote: »

This is from a legal website

Driving without insurance is generally punishable by a fine of up to €2,500, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year. Where the court decides not to impose a disqualification, drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insruance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.

Will you find a year off the road hard?

LuckyStar

egan007 wrote: »

It makes a big difference!
What are you talking about? nobody got knocked down.
This would be an entirely different matter if someone got killed.
You sound like an FF politician.

The difference seeing you clearly need it spelled out is that:

Joe Scumbag is driving every day,increasing the possibility of an accident, in his no NCT no insurance banger bleeding the state dry of every benefit available. He spends the night fighting.

Joe public took a car which he worked for out for a spin once on a quiet country road.

Joe Public made a mistake, a bad judgment.
Joe Scumbag made no mistake.

Driving without insurance is always bad judgement. Why should Joe Public get off lightly just because he's not a scumbag? Just because he only did it the once? How many times would he need to do it before you stopped seeing his case through rose tinted glasses? The law is the same for everyone.

MercMad

maidhc wrote: »

A few facts

1) You cannot backdate an insurance policy
2) If you have a policy with the driving other cars extenstion bring it to the garda station now. It may not quite cover you, but do it. Try and not let this get to court.
3) If you get convicted there is no discretion, you are off the road.
4) Go to a solicitor. You have no idea how many people get disqualified for scew ups with insurance policies, often they are in the right (unlike youself with all due respect).
6) You can easily defer the ban for about 2 years.

..................I agree with the above completely. The OP knows he was wrong but due to the fact he has another car taxed and insured shows that this was an error of judgement. I think the OP should get a good solicitor who should be able to argue the above point and make the distinction between someone who drives regularly without regard for insurance and the law and his client.

Good luck !

Duckjob

LuckyStar wrote: »

Driving without insurance is always bad judgement. Why should Joe Public get off lightly just because he's not a scumbag? Just because he only did it the once? How many times would he need to do it before you stopped seeing his case through rose tinted glasses? The law is the same for everyone.

The "law" that you're talking about being the same for everyone only determines whether you committed the offense of not.

Discretion is still applied by the Judge at the court level in terms of applying a sentence. The Judge will consider past convictions if any, along with their perception of the character in front of them. That's why they're called "Judges"

great unwashed

Boggles wrote: »

Will you find a year off the road hard?

Because I need a car for work ... yes!

OldmanMondeo

great unwashed wrote: »

Because I need a car for work ... yes!

This might make your slap a bit lighter. Reading various court reports in the papers, most Judges will be lighter on people who admit their mistake and have a solicitor put their case forward.

I do feel sorry for all the abuse you have taken here. You asked a simple valid question, admited your mistake and still get lamblasted here. Yes you were wrong, and thankfully you didn't kill or hurt anyone else, for there sake as well as yours. Try not lose sleep over it, get proper legal advise and hope for the best.

egan007

LuckyStar wrote: »

Driving without insurance is always bad judgement. Why should Joe Public get off lightly just because he's not a scumbag? Just because he only did it the once? How many times would he need to do it before you stopped seeing his case through rose tinted glasses? The law is the same for everyone.

I believe there is a job for you here. http://www.garda.ie/reserve.html

I hope you never ever have to make a judgment that is in any way important.
If you google 'colour wheel' you will see that there is a whole range of colours between black and white.

I'm finished replying I just can't put it any simpler....where's that barney dvd..

lightening

Savman wrote: »

expect a year ban and fine upwards of €1k if you do get charged convicted. IIRC the RSA add a mandatory 5 penalty points to any conviction of uninsured driving, don't take my word as gospel but maybe read up on it.

When yer about to get buggered, best to pray for some vaseline.

Jaysus... all that followed with "dont take my word as gospel"!

OP, this has turned in to a high horse fest for "pub solicitors" (not everyone, some good advice there also) You have admited you were wrong, but some people have to remind you anyway.

Let us know how you get on and what the result is. This mistake will be made by others.

great unwashed

Three positive posts in a row - heartening ... but I wouldn't get my hopes up for a lesser slap than I might deserve or more sleep than I'm getting. I've made an appointment with a solicitor and carried on with taxing the new car and making moves to sell the old one.

And you are right, lightening, this will happen to other people. I wish the garda had given me a good bollicking at the roadside, impounded the car, given me another good one at the station with plenty of reference to the relevant Act and so on which would have taught me a good lesson. But then again, maybe it's no harm that I learn the law this way - it does apply to everyone equally...

johnny_adidas

maybe i missed it somewhere in the thread but have you gone to the station and apologised/spoken to the garda who stopped you? im sure you explained the situation at the time but you have nothing to lose at this stage. bring copies of your insurance on the other car. are you of the age where bringing a parent would help the situation?

lightening

johnny_adidas wrote: »

maybe i missed it somewhere in the thread but have you gone to the station and apologised/spoken to the garda who stopped you? im sure you explained the situation at the time but you have nothing to lose at this stage. bring copies of your insurance on the other car. are you of the age where bringing a parent would help the situation?

Excellent idea. Particularly if you are young...

Henry Ford III

Apologising to the cop, dressing in a suit, having a good shave/solicitor, or even producing an insurance cert. that doesn't cover the car O.P. was driving won't get him off.

He did, and has accepted that he did, a very silly and potentially devastating thing.

johnny_adidas

Henry Ford III wrote: »

........won't get him off.

you know this how?

craichoe

johnny_adidas wrote: »

you know this how?

Because for the Garda, its an easy prosecution, all the leg work is done.

AFAIK, if he's already processed the paperwork you can expect a number of summons delivered to your door.

Should be
NO INSURANCE
and
FAILURE TO PRODUCE INSURANCE

Throw your hands up and admit guilt on this one, you could get anything from a 70 euro fine to the maximum plus a ban. Its completely hit and miss, depends on the Judge and if its his time of the month :P

Also on the NCT note, this is completely different to Insurance cover when claiming and legality to drive on the road. If you get stopped and your NCT is out, you have an insurance policy in force which is fine for driving on the road. However if you have an accident and a claim is made, there is a stipulation in your policy that an NCT Certificate must be produced for the vehicle to prove roadworthyness.

LuckyStar

egan007 wrote: »

I believe there is a job for you here. http://www.garda.ie/reserve.html

I hope you never ever have to make a judgment that is in any way important.
If you google 'colour wheel' you will see that there is a whole range of colours between black and white.

I'm finished replying I just can't put it any simpler....where's that barney dvd..

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the law that says driving without insurance is ok so long as you're a NICE GUY...

Maybe you judge people on shallow things such as their appearances or jobs, I however prefer to judge people by their actions. Perhaps it is you that should never have to make an important decision about people.

The OP himself has admitted what he did was wrong and that the law applies to everyone and you are still fighting his case for him and taking stabs into my posts just because I said he was in the wrong. Which he admitted himself.

MarkN

Hibernian are just one company that will back you up if you send an email with your policy number to get you through til the next working day and actually speak to someone in there about the transfer. I think it's a great idea, used it myself once.

galwaytt

craichoe wrote: »

Also on the NCT note, this is completely different to Insurance cover when claiming and legality to drive on the road. If you get stopped and your NCT is out, you have an insurance policy in force which is fine for driving on the road. However if you have an accident and a claim is made, there is a stipulation in your policy that an NCT Certificate must be produced for the vehicle to prove roadworthyness.

....and not for the first time, has this red herring been posted on this forum.....if you want me to believe that, you're going to have to scan your policy and cert and post it up here, otherwise it's fiction.

We have 3 policies at home, Quinn, Hibernian, Hibernian. Nowhere - nowhere - is that stipulation on it.

What you have to do is, have a roadworthy car. Not a roadlegal car. The NCT itself will tell you that their test is NOT a guarantee of roadworthinesss, except for the X mins it's in the centre, and that it cannot be construed as such.

Therefore, NCT Monday, crash on Tueday = NCT cert is completely useless.

However, the ins co may well use a motor engineer to examine the car for ROADWORTHINESS at the time of the accident, and will use that in their decision process. It is neither in the remit of he, nor the insurance co, to inspect or enforce, the Road Traffic Act or any other Act, so it's irrelevant. It is the same, btw, for driving licences.

kida

OP - just as matter of interest what was the car and were you really doing 25?

Duckjob

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Apologising to the cop, dressing in a suit, having a good shave/solicitor, or even producing an insurance cert. that doesn't cover the car O.P. was driving won't get him off.

He did, and has accepted that he did, a very silly and potentially devastating thing.

FFS, Yes, I think it's been established that what OP did was silly. On page 1. Thanks for that contribution.

Some of these measures mentioned have been known to work in the past. Just because the OP knows he made a mistake it doesn't mean he can't try to make the best of the situation now within the boundaries of the present system.