Fox hunting poll in todays Irish Times

GA361

I don't think that townies can have a valid opinion of the natural order of things in the country-side.
Can any anti-hunter here tell me what would happen if fox hunting was banned?
Domestic fowl would be slaughtered.Not to mention the countless number of lambs that would be killed by the foxes.Foxes are pests which must be controlled.

Vegeta

peasant wrote: »

It is when it is uneccesarily cruel

We're lucky fox hunting isn't cruel then

Correct, I have never shot at a fox and I don't posess a rifle. But as the best shot in my regiment during my stint in the army ...given a rifle and some refresher practise on moving targets, I bet you I could kill one with the first shot

And I'd bet you wouldn't, even the fact you'd try to shoot a moving target (with a rifle) especially a living one, leads me to belive you would needlessly wound the animal first.

Och ..poor you ...they wouldn't let you into their elite circle, did they?
And now you're trying to rack up browny points by fighting the good fight agains those stubborn "animal lovers" ...Well I hope it works out for ya

So you are just prejudiced regardless of the activity.

Vegeta

Hellrazer wrote: »

Christ I really cant believe in this part of your post--Now you lot are trying to justify it by saying it contributes to the local economy.
Just like whaling and the fur trade so :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sure its alright to do it then if it contributes to the economy.
More bull**** from the pro hunting lobby.

You still haven't answered my question, are your family all vegan?

How do your kids react when they see dead chickens in the supermarket, with the same disgust I hope or else they may be seen as having double standards and a sheltered view of how things really work in the big bad cruel world.

togster

cowzerp wrote: »

Animal rights, if a hunter of this nature was harmed i would not be sad,deserved i'd say, i never condoned viloence though.

Deserved? Really? You need to get your priorities straight. I would never suggest that the anti who sliced the horses tendons should be assaulted.
You in a cowardly way suggested that i deserved getting my face smashed in.
Humans have more priority than animals. If you don't realise that then you need help. Seriously. If anything it has compounded my suspicions that (some) anti's need a major reality check. Wake up.

cowzerp

Villain wrote: »

Ah maybe because I shoot the rabbits for farmers as they are vermin who damage crops, btw I also shoot Foxes which I have seen rip lambs in two so they can take them back to their den, but oh let me guess natural cruelty against lambs is ok with you but me shooting the fox isn't?

What about for some blokes dinner, I do believe the people I saw Ferreting were going to eat the rabbits, so is that ok then?

Oh now lets see your definition of unneccesary hunting?

Clearly you have not read previous posts, i've no problem if it is for a reason, shooting vermon humanely is fine, eating rabbits is fine, catching fish and eating them fine! chasing a fox till its heart explodes for the craic, not right, humans at the worst.

togster

cowzerp wrote: »

humans at the worst.

Actually not really. There are far worse things happening all over the world every day.

Again priorities priorities.:rolleyes:

cowzerp

togster wrote: »

Deserved? Really? You need to get your priorities straight. I would never suggest that the anti who sliced the horses tendons should be assaulted.
You in a cowardly way suggested that i deserved getting my face smashed in.
Humans have more priority than animals. If you don't realise that then you need help. Seriously. If anything it has compounded my suspicions that (some) anti's need a major reality check. Wake up.

Again your putting words in my mouth, when did i say you deserved getting your face smashed in? and dont call me a coward :mad:, i believe all living things deserve to be treated with dignity, torture for fun is wrong.

togster

I didn't call you a coward i said cowardly:p

Hellrazer

Vegeta wrote: »

You still haven't answered my question, are your family all vegan?

How do your kids react when they see dead chickens in the supermarket, with the same disgust I hope or else they may be seen as having double standards and a sheltered view of how things really work in the big bad cruel world.

Nope we all eat meat.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with fox hunting.

Ive repeatedly stated that Im not anti-hunting,Im anti cruelty.

Id gladly shoot a rabbit(which I have done) and Ive eaten what Ive shot.
And I dont mind saying it.

Villain

cowzerp wrote: »

Clearly you have not read previous posts, i've no problem if it is for a reason, shooting vermon humanely is fine, eating rabbits is fine, catching fish and eating them fine! chasing a fox till its heart explodes for the craic, not right, humans at the worst.

Ah right so letting a fox rip a lamb to shreds is ok but hunting a fox using hounds and horses is not, right I get ya

Jak

Helena, I wasn't having a go. I just found it funny. No harm intended.

As for the response on the value of the hunting industry in Ireland - there is a major industry (tourism, clothing, local economies) in this country associated with hunting, game shoots, syndicates and so on, as there is in the UK. Dismissing it out of hand is simply ignoring a major factor in the argument. Is the fox priceless?

In any case I'm gone from this, people have too much spare time and are far too emotional.

cowzerp

Villain wrote: »

Ah right so letting a fox rip a lamb to shreds is ok but hunting a fox using hounds and horses is not, right I get ya

When did i say that? i also have no problem with shooting the fox if necessary, again not reading posts properly, using dogs to scare the fox to death is cruel and unnecessary and is only done for the laugh, if you can chase it you can shoot it, why dont they?

Villain

Because its a sport, and I don't see how shooting the animal from distance where the shot may well not kill hence it dies a slow painful death is any worse thah hunting it with horses and hounds.

cowzerp

Villain wrote: »

Because its a sport, and I don't see how shooting the animal from distance where the shot may well not kill hence it dies a slow painful death is any worse thah hunting it with horses and hounds.

football is a sport, boxing is a sport, both competitors choose to take part, dogs chasing a fox is not a sport, and if it is its an evil sport, if you cant shoot to kill you should not have a gun license.

Villain

LOL shoot to kill a fox from a few hundred yards with a 22, half the farmers wouldn't have a hope, I'd be more worried about there being a back drop than the fox tbh. I on the other hand can shoot a penny from 60 yards with a 22.

Its a sport whether you like it or not its a sport, fact, oh wait I already said that and theres you lecturing me on reading posts

cowzerp

oh so its a sport because you say it is, the sooner its banned the better.

togster

cowzerp wrote: »

oh so its a sport because you say it is, the sooner its banned the better.

Yup. I consider it a sport. Im outta here. Its pointless reasoning with you.
Im sure it won't get banned. We have a big organisation and we can make ourselves heard. And like i already said if it is i will still hunt. Imagine the guards trying to monitor every hunt every meet!:D

Tally-Ho!!

peasant

Foxhunting (with hounds and horses) WILL be banned ...as soon as the governement gets its finger out and implements animal welfare legislation similar to that of other European contries, which is direly needed.

And foxhunting will just be a sideshow event compared to chicken farming, dog breeding, keeping and racing, horse keeping and racing, the general welfare of farm animals ...etc etc.

Because animals do indeed have rights and it is only a matter of time until these rights also get recognised and implemented here.

Don't over estimate the power of your lobby ...it'll be banned and gone before you know it and good riddance to it.

Look at what's coming from the EU:

Looking back the first Community legislation on farm animal welfare was adopted in 1974 and concerned the stunning of animals before slaughter. Respecting the basic five freedoms (freedom from discomfort, from hunger and thirst, from fear and distress, from pain, injury and disease and freedom to express natural behaviour) is a fundamental principle underlying measures to protect animal welfare and the EU has already taken various practical steps to secure real improvements in animal welfare.

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/welfare/actionplan/actionplan_en.htm

Bendihorse

PLEASE Catch a grip, animals dont take it personally when hunted, its a fact of life for them. E.O.S.

I think this could do with being locked, its been 15 pages of going around in circles and it would appear that theres only approx 4 or 5 people watching the thread at this stage...

peasant

Bendihorse wrote: »

PLEASE Catch a grip, animals dont take it personally when hunted, its a fact of life for them. E.O.S.

let me highlight something for you from the paragraph above, in case you didn't quite get it


Respecting the basic five freedoms (freedom from discomfort, from hunger and thirst, from fear and distress, from pain, injury and disease and freedom to express natural behaviour) is a fundamental principle

It doesn't matter what you think or believe ...you will be overruled.
Just a matter of time

EOS

Vegeta

Hellrazer wrote: »

Nope we all eat meat.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with fox hunting.

Never said it had anything to do with foxhunting, you said your kid got upset when he/she saw the photos thread in the shooting forum and went on about how disgusting and cruel it was. I thought that strange as most things in there are game animals or vermin which have been shot and suffered no less than the animals you now confess to eating. I bet more animals died this year to feed your family than most hunters have shot.

Ive repeatedly stated that Im not anti-hunting,Im anti cruelty.

And yet you have no problem eating meat commercially farmed. Again that's a strange one.

Id gladly shoot a rabbit(which I have done) and Ive eaten what Ive shot.
And I dont mind saying it.

Glad to hear it, I wish everyone had to source and kill their own meat and then maybe they'd appreciate real animal suffering

Bendihorse

We'll see peasant, thats idealistic chat and if you read between the lines (or had any real knowledge), its very much so directed at farmers and the care of captive animals kept for consumption in the human food chain. Battery hens anyone? MMM yum yum and also the Hal-Al method of killing and slaughtering beef - Sorry to burst your bubble (i wont lower myself to using childish smilies with regard to a serious topic like you do)

There is no way of controlling a legislation like that in the wild, what defines Freedom from discomfort? A misfired gun shot? If this was to come into play, then hunting would have to be banned period, as it would mean that foxes would have to be captured and stunned before shooting? Dont think this is going to happen any time soon.

Sorry but your argument is completely flawed and based on soely on misplaced emotion, poor knowledge and gut instinct. Its almost like a game of one-up-manship to you??

Good day to you.

Vegeta

peasant wrote: »

Look at what's coming from the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/welfare/actionplan/actionplan_en.htm

peasant you'd better start letting your cat out at night then as you have to let them express natural behaviour, you're being cruel by those definitions

How can you live with yourself?

peasant

Bendihorse

I would suggest you take that discussion up with the EU, once they've banned unneccessarily cruel "sports" like foxhunting, carted deerhunts etc.

You're wailing at the wrong person here


and Vegeta

Clasping at straws are we?
My cats can express themselves all they want ...just not all the time

(sort of like you and me and everybody else)

Bendihorse

Im not wailing?? WHERE does it mention 'sports' in that snippet? I must be going blind because i didn't see it.

Im making a factual based argument. You have poor knowlege of this PROPOSED legislation and choose to interpret it as YOU want, not as it is.

Im afraid your not going to see a hunting ban in your lifetime. Rebuking with nonsencical comments does not make you right. At least i know what im talking about. BUT, lets wait and see what happens, time will tell.

Im tired of talking to you cos you make no sense whatsoever and are extreemly tiresome.

**Peasant: Consider yourself ignored from now on so i wont be able to respond to your comments or defend myself so please dont go slandering and trying to have 'the last word' on a matter you are not an authority on.

Vegeta

peasant wrote: »

Bendihorse

I would suggest you take that discussion up with the EU, once they've banned unneccessarily cruel "sports" like foxhunting, carted deerhunts etc.

You're wailing at the wrong person here


and Vegeta

Clasping at straws are we?
My cats can express themselves all they want ...just not all the time

(sort of like you and me and everybody else)

That's great for your cats, so can people hunt foxes some of the time too. Cool thanks Sundays generally suits everyone. Top Job

Why did you quote something from the EU about farm animal welfare in a foxhunting debate, it even says its about farm animal wefare in your quote?

peasant

Ohhh ...and as for that one:

Bendihorse wrote: »

There is no way of controlling a legislation like that in the wild, what defines Freedom from discomfort? A misfired gun shot? If this was to come into play, then hunting would have to be banned period, as it would mean that foxes would have to be captured and stunned before shooting? Dont think this is going to happen any time soon.

You are aware that in some European countries hunters already need a licence and have to sit a theoretical and practical test before they get it?

And that their license can be revoked if they are reported for misconduct, cruelty or bad animal husbandry?

That there is an official state body overseeing all hunting activities?

I would expect something along these lines to come into Ireland as well.

peasant

Once the EU recognises and legislates "basic freedoms" for animals (and be it initially only farm animals), applying these "basic freedoms" to all animals is the next logical step.

I know ye don't want to hear this ...but it will happen.

Whispered

I've been reading from the start and wanted to give my opinion.

Firstly, I want to ask about the size of the pack, I think it was togster (I'm too lazy to scroll back) that said it has no bearing. I have seen foxes hunted by a small pack of dogs (4 max) - I have very very rarely seen them caught. From what I noticed the fox does not get away by running in a straight line. With an un-naturally large pack behind him, does he have a choice but to go against his instincts and run in a straight line?

Before I go any further can I ask Vegta about the whole cat thing? It seems to be that you are not interested in arguing your actual point and instead make the same - irrelevant - point over and over (not that you are the only person guilty of this). You have a lot to say about hunting and have made some good points, why not stick to that? I dont see your logic in comparing keeping cats to fox hunting. Maybe if you explained what you mean instead of the odd sarcastic comment?

I am, like peasant, anti cruelty as opposed to anti hunting but some of the things said here by both sides are a bit out of order (comparing a hunter to a paedophile in particular sickened me) but I would like to maybe explain. People see other people getting a kick out of something which kills an animal, ie people getting a kick out of cruelty and suffering - therefore a hunter is a cruel person with no morals. Flawed and uninformed logic perhaps but I'm sure you can understand why people can come to this conclusion, and why anti hunt people can get so passionate.

Also the comments on the type of people who hunt - I come from a small town and can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the people taking part in the hunts were most definately the snobbish elite. I'm not saying it's like that everywhere but in my experience it is.

A field down from our house, running alongside a river with fencing on the river banks, slightly lower than the field itself. A hunt passed through and the farmer lost a few sheep who were so terrified they jumped the wire and into the river (not as dramatic as it sounds, the river is ony about thigh high but there were broken legs etc).

I am a bit confused as to how hunters can claim that they are conservationalists (sp?) yet there seems to be no way of finding out the numbers of foxes killed in Ireland yearly. Surely if this was the case the numbers would be important?

I certainly hope that legislation does come in to protect animals, game, sport and farmed. Irelands record of animal welfare is terrible on all fronts and needs to be seriously looked at.

cowzerp

peasant wrote: »

Once the EU recognises and legislates "basic freedoms" for animals (and be it initially only farm animals), applying these "basic freedoms" to all animals is the next logical step.

I know ye don't want to hear this ...but it will happen.

I agree, the sooner these sadistic snobs are banned the better, i still dont understand how they believe the fox is not terrified or feels pain like we do!
its hilarious that they actualy argue this point, why are they squeeling if there not terrified for there life?? i also cant understand how they can get a kick out of killing a defensless animal in this manner-