Fox hunting poll in todays Irish Times

MsFifers

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Who's going to do it if people who aren't interested in making a good practice of it aren't? If someone's doesn't want to do it, why should they?

Forestry service and farmers may have a professional interest in culling animals - but I've never heard one say they actually enjoy the process (not including hunters). There are people who have an interest in honing skills to do the job as quickly and humanely as possible - not stringing it out for as long as possible on a cross-country chase ruining crops and property while they are at it.

Lots of people practice on non-animal targets perfectly contentedly.

The vermin-control argument is completely fallacious.

btw - I passed a recently completed hunt on Sunday - everyone in the pub while the horses were locked in their boxes for hours. Wonder if they were sticking to the drink-driving limits...

peasant

It wasn't me! wrote:

But the foxes are killed humanely

tsk ...

peasant wrote: »

If a good shooter kills a fox, the fox will never hear the shot that killed it.
That is humane vermin control.

Being chased by lots and lots of dogs to exhaustion and possibly death is cruelty.

Simple as that.


But it gets compounded by the fact that this is done needlessly and for entertainment/enjoyment ...that's just plain wrong.

once again ...what's wrong with shooting foxes (if needs be) and have a nice non-cruel drag hunt instead ?

lightening

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Nope. Didn't know any hunts performed digs at the end, but if they do, what's the problem? I mean, it makes it a more effective form of vermin control.

Well... they do. It's horrible and slow, you wouldn't wish that sort of end on any animal. Its far from humane.

It wasn't me!

MsFifers wrote: »

Forestry service and farmers may have a professional interest in culling animals - but I've never heard one say they actually enjoy the process (not including hunters). There are people who have an interest in honing skills to do the job as quickly and humanely as possible - not stringing it out for as long as possible on a cross-country chase ruining crops and property while they are at it.

Lots of people practice on non-animal targets perfectly contentedly.

The vermin-control argument is completely fallacious.

btw - I passed a recently completed hunt on Sunday - everyone in the pub while the horses were locked in their boxes for hours. Wonder if they were sticking to the drink-driving limits...

The vermin control element is a perfectly valid reason to continue.

Hunts should not trespass on lands they are not allowed use, and this needs to be discouraged. It gives the whole field a bad name. however, many farmers allow hunts to cross their land.

I shoot target rifle myself, and it's great fun, and extraordinarily challenging, but it's just not a comparable sport. so many elements are so vastly different. It's like telling someone they should stop playing rugby, that it hurts other people and that golf is the game they should be playing.

peasant wrote: »

tsk ...




once again ...what's wrong with shooting foxes (if needs be) and have a nice non-cruel drag hunt instead ?

Nothing wrong with it. It happens anyway. The hunt is going to continue until someone puts forward a very good reason it shouldn't.

lightening wrote: »

Well... they do. It's horrible and slow, you wouldn't wish that sort of end on any animal. Its far from humane.

In most digs, to my knowledge, the fox is dug out and shot, no?

lightening

It wasn't me! wrote: »

In most digs, to my knowledge, the fox is dug out and shot, no?

Dragged out by terriers in a lot of cases and torn apart by the hounds and terriers (as a reward to keep them keen) to the hurrah's of the horsepeople.

It wasn't me!

I'll need very clear evidence before I give that any credence, I'm afraid.

MsFifers

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I shoot target rifle myself, and it's great fun, and extraordinarily challenging, but it's just not a comparable sport. so many elements are so vastly different. It's like telling someone they should stop playing rugby, that it hurts other people and that golf is the game they should be playing.

I wasn't suggesting that target rifle is comparable to a fox hunt. I was responding to your suggestion that no one would have the skills to cull foxes humanely if it wasn't for hunting.

I know you wouldn't ENJOY target rifle in the same way as you do hunting. That is the whole basis of the problem. Those of us who are against hunting - don't care whether or not you ENJOY yourself.

It wasn't me!

So, if I enjoy shooting foxes, and realise I'm doing the natural environment a service, I should stop, because I take pride in it and enjoy it?

fatmammycat

If you don't care about the pretty horrific and completely unnecessary end for a fox, spare a thought for the hounds then. Most fox hounds can live until about 13/14, but they're only useful for hunting up to about 6 after that a lot of them are destroyed, not to mention the hounds that are lost or hit by cars or trampled or killed from the kick of a horse.
I spent a season hunting in my youth-because I was too into horses and too stupid to know any better, and I'm telling you know, watching a poor muddied exhausted animal fighting for its life then torn asunder by hounds is not sport.
If you want to keep vermin under control kill them swiftly and painlessly. Hunting is nothing more than a social gathering of people who pretend to love animals while being as cruel as possible to them.
If you want you can google my name and add fox hunting to it, have a little look at how cruel this 'sport' really is. There is not a single reason drag hunts cannot be organised, indeed drags are actually more entertaining as you get a good run out, good jumping and not have to spend a good deal of time flushing. There's no reason to abandon riding to hounds, but likewise in this day and age there is equally no reason to be cruel for the sake of entertainment.
Fatmammycat

lightening

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'll need very clear evidence before I give that any credence, I'm afraid.

BBC News...

"The court also heard that the clerk could only find details of two other prosecutions in Britain brought under the ban in Scotland and Chester.

Both had been more serious cases, as a terrier had been used to kill the fox."

fatmammycat

And one more thing, if you hunt for food and use what you kill I would salute you, but for 'sport' nope.

peasant

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'll need very clear evidence before I give that any credence, I'm afraid.

just have a look at the foxhunting video on this page:
http://www.banbloodsports.com/

MsFifers

Your arguments to date that a fox hunt is doing the natural environment a service have not held up - see anyone posted in opposition to you above.

If you enjoy killing an animal, just for the sake of killing then yes you should stop. Bad karma man!

Anyway - I recognise that you will not change your mind and I am wasting time debating with you - so good luck with the ruthlessness - I better get back to work.:)

It wasn't me!

peasant wrote: »

just have a look at the foxhunting video on this page:
http://www.banbloodsports.com/

Please don't insult me by playing the ICABS card. I really hope it's beneath you to ally yourself to those lowlives.

lightening

Well it is Video footage of a fox hunt, you cant argue with that!

What about the BBC? They don't have an agenda.

It wasn't me!

I still have to say, that is not standard practice and you cannot judge the many on the actions of the few. Standard is for the fox to be dug out of the earth and shot.

Vegeta

You see the problem I have here is that folks in the likes of ICABS are against all types of hunting and I cannot see why they don't put their efforts in to something actually worth the rounds they go to.

How about commercial chicken or pig farming? Potential cruelty on a massive scale yet there isn't half the noise about that as their is about fox hunting.

How many foxes a week are killed by means of hounds versus the normal farm animals living in shocking conditions.

Waste of resources I say.

lightening

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I still have to say, that is not standard practice

ah come on...

It wasn't me!

What? It's not.

peasant

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Please don't insult me by playing the ICABS card. I really hope it's beneath you to ally yourself to those lowlives.

I'm not allied with anyone ...you asked for proof, there you have it.

Vegeta

peasant wrote: »

I'm not allied with anyone ...you asked for proof, there you have it.

Yes but you picked the most biased form of proof you could

It is not beyond these people to harm animals themselves, vidoe tape it and pass it off as a reason to ban hunting.

It wasn't me!

Or for the politicians involved to try cause someone to lose their job in the pushing of their own agenda.

stevoman

peasant wrote: »

Thank you!

End of debate ...you've just proven (and conceded to) the point that foxhunting (the dog-pack/horseback version) is pointless.

It can therefore be classified as what it is ...an act of needless animal cruelty that should be banned.


I rest my case.


:D:D:D:D

well the hunts still go on regardelss. hoo ya!!!! :D:D:D

peasant

vegeta

Don't confuse the issue.

In my arguments for example I have not argued against all hunting but just the cruel and unneccesary varieties of it.

I do verym uch agree with you that some practises in "food production" are horrible and should be changed ...but that doesn't change the fact that a hound&horse foxhunt is cruel and unneccessary.

peasant

stevoman wrote: »

well the hunts still go on regardelss. hoo ya!!!! :D:D:D

Have you got anything meaningful to contribute as well?

lightening

It wasn't me! wrote: »

What? It's not.

You said you needed evidence, you got video footage and arrests on two occasions. I'm all for certain types of hunting, but this style is over, its going where bear baiting went.

stevoman

well yeah. im a field sports enthusiast and i do not just like to hunt, i love it. the anti groups in the uk that have caused the damage to fox hunting are far far more hardcore than we have in ireland. in fact the most part of the anti's in england that are hardcore are generally the "krustie" tree hugging dreadlock wearing folk that dont wash and have far more time on their hands, as they dont work. so they terrorise the hunts and generally cause sensationalism that makes it to the papers. luckily here in ireland, most of us work and have livings to take care of and in turn keeps most of the lunatics away from the hunts. Because of this i dont ever personally think that they will ban fox hunting her in ireland.

In truth if all of us hunters started becoming like those tree huggers and started to sabotage anti hunt meetings, as soon as the press got wind of it they'd propbobly support us just to sell papers!!

when it comes to hunting i just get on with it and i dont listen to other peoples facts and views as they are most often unfounded.

beleive half of what you see and none of what you hear!

It wasn't me!

Now now, leave dreadlocks alone.

stevoman

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Now now, leave dreadlocks alone.

sorry rasta!:) lol

Vegeta

peasant wrote: »

vegeta

Don't confuse the issue.

In my arguments for example I have not argued against all hunting but just the cruel and unneccesary varieties of it.

I do verym uch agree with you that some practises in "food production" are horrible and should be changed ...but that doesn't change the fact that a hound&horse foxhunt is cruel and unneccessary.

While I do not agree that fox hunting is cruel and unnecessary, they question still remains

Why put so much effort into this when on the grand scheme of things very little can ever be achieved. There are much bigger fish to fry.

Waste of effort really.