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Fox hunting poll in todays Irish Times

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    #152
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    All I keep hearing is that its for "vermin control" which is bull****.And we "dont hunt for pleasure" which is more bull****.

    Thats your opinion. I hunt because i enjoy it but also becuase of vermin control. But i've said that as much as i can.


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    #153
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    togster wrote: »
    Thats your opinion. I hunt because i enjoy it but also becuase of vermin control. But i've said that as much as i can.

    Good because your talking nonsense, and your done with me so wont reply-:D

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #154
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    togster wrote: »
    I hunt because i enjoy it

    You see this is the part that I have the problem with--How anyone can openly say that they "enjoy" killing a defenceless animal is beyond me.

    I just dont get it.If it was for vermin control then fine,if it was for food then fine.

    I just feel that those who do it for fun and post pics up on websites for all to see have something wrong with them.

    My 9 year old came across the "post your pics of dead animals that you shot here" thread and it took hours to calm her down.I feel that thread should deleted or put in a private forum.


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    #155
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    You see this is the part that I have the problem with--How anyone can openly say that they "enjoy" killing a defenceless animal is beyond me.

    I just dont get it.If it was for vermin control then fine,if it was for food then fine.

    I just feel that those who do it for fun and post pics up on websites for all to see have something wrong with them.

    My 9 year old came across the "post your pics of dead animals that you shot here" thread and it took hours to calm her down.I feel that thread should deleted or put in a private forum.

    Agreed, paedophiles enjoy molesting children-but this does not make it right, they have a sickness and thank god its illegal, when fox hunting is banned these sicko's will have to face the law too. civilised society has to stop this torture of any animal, if they need culling, make it humane and not "FUN"

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #156
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    You see this is the part that I have the problem with--How anyone can openly say that they "enjoy" killing a defenceless animal is beyond me.

    I just dont get it.If it was for vermin control then fine,if it was for food then fine.

    You selected part of my post. I said i hunted because i enjoyed it and because of vermin control. So its OK to hunt as long as we don't enjoy it?
    Hellrazer wrote: »
    My 9 year old came across the "post your pics of dead animals that you shot here" thread and it took hours to calm her down.I feel that thread should deleted or put in a private forum.

    I don't really know what this has to do with the discussion in here.


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    #157
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    cowzerp wrote: »
    Agreed, paedophiles enjoy molesting children-but this does not make it right, they have a sickness and thank god its illegal, when fox hunting is banned these sicko's will have to face the law too. civilised society has to stop this torture of any animal, if they need culling, make it humane and not "FUN"

    Are you equating what i do to what a paedophile does? Its an animal for god sake, you need to understand that. NOT A CHILD.

    Do you really think that if a ban is implemented here, that the government are going to provide guards to police every hunt?


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    #158
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    togster wrote: »
    Are you equating what i do to what a paedophile does? Its an animal for god sake, you need to understand that. NOT A CHILD.

    YES-both get satifaction from abusing a weaker beings and are both sick minded gaining mental satisfaction from the abuse they do, oh i thought you where finished with me???

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #159
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    togster wrote: »
    You selected part of my post. I said i hunted because i enjoyed it and because of vermin control. So its OK to hunt as long as we don't enjoy it?


    I selected part of your post because as I stated in my reply that "this is the part I have the problem with" if you want to go back and read the post again.

    I would agree whole heartedly with it if it was just for vermin control or food.

    As for the bit about the websites--it has a lot to do with the discussion at hand because it demonstrates that hunting is not just for vermin control but is used as a so called "sport" where hunters can show off their great prowess at killing a defenceless animal with a high powered rifle.

    All arguments for it being just for "vermin control" go out the window by looking at that thread.


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    #160
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    cowzerp wrote: »
    YES-both get satifaction from abusing a weaker beings and are both sick minded gaining mental satisfaction from the abuse they do, oh i thought you where finished with me???

    I am not sick minded. Its not the first time you have attempted to abuse me in this thread. Jesus can you please read what i write....i do not get mental satisfaction from watching an animal die. Do you get it?

    By the way a fox is not a human in case you have missed that. You really need to chill out.


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    #161
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    I would agree whole heartedly with it if it was just for vermin control or food.

    So its acceptable to hunt with hounds as long as it is purely for vermin control. good to know.
    Hellrazer wrote: »

    As for the bit about the websites--it has a lot to do with the discussion at hand because it demonstrates that hunting is not just for vermin control but is used as a so called "sport" where hunters can show off their great prowess at killing a defenceless animal with a high powered rifle.

    .

    But this is about fox-hunting is it not?


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    #162
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    togster wrote: »
    I am not sick minded. Its not the first time you have attempted to abuse me in this thread. Jesus can you please read what i write....i do not get mental satisfaction from watching an animal die. Do you get it?

    By the way a fox is not a human in case you have missed that. You really need to chill out.

    You have stated many times you enjoy it, animal abuse is awful aswell as child abuse, you need to have a sick mind to want to abuse either in my opinion, i never abused you, im just stating my opinion. and im not bothered if it hurts your sensitive soul.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #163
    ~Thalia~
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭~Thalia~


    togster wrote: »
    i do not get mental satisfaction from watching an animal die.


    What do you get from it?

    Naturally you are entitled to your opinion but I think it's optimistic in the extreme for you to air your views in an animals and pets forum and expect anything but utter disgust for the practice you deem 'sport'. It quite simply isn't and personally speaking there is little point in your protestations to the contrary because it's unlikely you will get any hearing amongst genuine animal lovers.


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    #164
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    WOW - this conversation has gotten crazy!

    My own personal opinion on hunting is if it needs to be done - it should be done humanely. I am not anti hunting, but I am certainly not pro hunting. If all hunters were responsible about things then there may be less of a problem. For example, earlier in the conversation it was brought up about the state some dogs are kept in, witnessed first hand by EGAR. It was shot down by a comment like "I've seen more than you" Yes I would imagine that it is the minority of dogs that this happens to but the fact it happens and the fact that other hunters must know about it,and perhaps turn a blind eye is unforgiveable. If these people were reported then I think a bit more respect would come from the non-hunting community. I know that is probably not a very good example but what I mean is if acts of unnecessary cruelty are not tolerated by other hunters, people might be more accepting. (I feel the same about greyhound racing/horse racing - any sport involving animals really).

    Out of interest, is there a body which governs the hunts? Do you need some sort of license? If a fox runs over land you are not allowed on, is it common practise to trespass, and what are the legal implications if you do? Is it common practise to dig the fox up? About how many foxes are killed by hunts every year? If a dog gets badly injured- out on the hunt, what usually happens? Thanks.


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    #165
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    togster wrote: »
    By the way a fox is not a human in case you have missed that.

    Correct, a fox is not human.

    But it is a fellow living being, sentient, with individual personality and behaviour.

    It deserves our respect and to be treated with dignity.


    Chasing it down with dozens of hounds or digging it out with terriers and shovels is neither respectful nor dignified.


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    #166
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    togster wrote: »
    So its acceptable to hunt with hounds as long as it is purely for vermin control. good to know.

    Nope-Hound hunting is never for vermin control despite what you lot say.Its all about "the day out"



    But this is about fox-hunting is it not?
    I havent looked at more than one or two pages of that thread but maybe you can enlighten us--Is there pictures of Foxes blown to bits on it??


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    #167
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    helena.ryan wrote: »
    Out of interest, is there a body which governs the hunts? Do you need some sort of license? If a fox runs over land you are not allowed on, is it common practise to trespass, and what are the legal implications if you do? Is it common practise to dig the fox up? About how many foxes are killed by hunts every year? If a dog gets badly injured- out on the hunt, what usually happens? Thanks.

    The IMFHA governs hunts. Yes you need to register your pack. It is not common practice to tress-pass on the land. I don't know of the legal implications. I don't know how many foxes are killed each year by hunts. It is not common practice to dig up a fox. Actually it is frowned upon. It depends on the injury what course of action will be taken. I know we have a vet on our staff who treats any of our injured hounds.


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    #168
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    ~Thalia~ wrote: »
    hearing amongst genuine animal lovers.


    Who decides who and who is not a genuine animal lover? I love my horses and dogs and cats. They are mine. But they are animals. And i treat them accordingly.


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    #169
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    peasant wrote: »

    Chasing it down with dozens of hounds or digging it out with terriers and shovels is neither respectful nor dignified.

    Thats your opinion.


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    #170
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Nope-Hound hunting is never for vermin control despite what you lot say.

    I thought you said different a minute ago. Apologies.
    Hellrazer wrote: »
    I havent looked at more than one or two pages of that thread but maybe you can enlighten us--Is there pictures of Foxes blown to bits on it??

    I didn't realise you were talking about the thread on boards. I have never looked at it tbh. Although i still fail to see the relevance of it here. Perhaps in feedback?


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    #171
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    You've done the last 4 posts, thats trolling and your not new to boards so know this..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #172
    ~Thalia~
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭~Thalia~


    togster wrote: »
    Who decides who and who is not a genuine animal lover? I love my horses and dogs and cats. They are mine. But they are animals. And i treat them accordingly.

    I don't believe anyone who engages in a sport where the ultimate aim is the death of an animal is an animal lover. My opinion. To claim oneself an animal lover while taking part in hunting is hypocrisy (sp?).


    You are obviously entitled to your opinion on this but I'm sorry you won't get an inch from me. Like I said previously should you like to debate this with people who are more likeminded maybe this isn't the best place to start.


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    #173
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Thanks togster, glad to know the fox is not usually dug up, when I heard that I was bit shocked as I assumed the "fun" of it was in the chase.

    Is it usual to have a vet there for the dogs? And is there a way we could find out the numbers. I'm not taking a dig but in fairness if fox hunting is a conservation sport I assume the numbers killed are available if I went looking for them?

    I see you declined to comment on my reporting unnecessary cruelty part of that post so I will ask outright, Hunters - if you know of a fellow hunter who you are sure mistreats his pack do you report him/her?


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    #174
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    cowzerp wrote: »
    You've done the last 4 posts, thats trolling and your not new to boards so know this..

    No i wasn't trolling. i was trying to repond to each post individually and i have yet to figure out how to do that in one post:)


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    #175
    MsFifers
    Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MsFifers


    togster wrote: »
    I love my horses and dogs and cats. They are mine. But they are animals. And i treat them accordingly.

    What does that mean exactly? If you "own" an animal you treat it kindly, and if you don't you can terrorise it?

    Would you let your dogs chase and try to kill a stray cat? If not - why not? Because it would be cruel?

    There is no logic to your arguments.


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    #176
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    MsFifers wrote: »
    What does that mean exactly? If you "own" an animal you treat it kindly, and if you don't you can terrorise it?

    Would you let your dogs chase and try to kill a stray cat? If not - why not? Because it would be cruel?

    There is no logic to your arguments.

    Well said, that is so true.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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    #177
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    helena.ryan wrote: »
    Is it usual to have a vet there for the dogs? And is there a way we could find out the numbers. I'm not taking a dig but in fairness if fox hunting is a conservation sport I assume the numbers killed are available if I went looking for them?

    Thanks for your reply Helena. I know many vets hunt with many packs. I know our vet carries a little first aid pack with her. I don't know about the numbers part tbh! Im sure each hunt has their own records.
    helena.ryan wrote: »
    I see you declined to comment on my reporting unnecessary cruelty part of that post so I will ask outright, Hunters - if you know of a fellow hunter who you are sure mistreats his pack do you report him/her?

    Sorry i wasn't trying to evade your question...i simply missed it. First of (not trying to be smart!) a huntsman usually looks after the pack or indeed a kenelsman. I have never seen hounds improperly treated so i have never had to report anyone. But to answer your question i have reported people who have kept horses,dogs,shee,cows in the past so i would not hesitate to do the same agian.
    Theres bad eggs in every walk of life.


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    #178
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    MsFifers wrote: »
    What does that mean exactly? If you "own" an animal you treat it kindly, and if you don't you can terrorise it?

    I didn't mean that to sound that way.
    MsFifers wrote: »
    Would you let your dogs chase and try to kill a stray cat? If not - why not? Because it would be cruel?

    No.
    MsFifers wrote: »
    There is no logic to your arguments.

    OK.


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    #179
    MsFifers
    Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MsFifers


    togster wrote: »
    OK.

    Well glad you concede that much! :D


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    #180
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    I selected part of your post because as I stated in my reply that "this is the part I have the problem with" if you want to go back and read the post again.

    I would agree whole heartedly with it if it was just for vermin control or food.

    As for the bit about the websites--it has a lot to do with the discussion at hand because it demonstrates that hunting is not just for vermin control but is used as a so called "sport" where hunters can show off their great prowess at killing a defenceless animal with a high powered rifle.

    All arguments for it being just for "vermin control" go out the window by looking at that thread.

    There are loads of pictures of game in that thread (which are eaten) so "vermin control" only applies when its vermin.

    Are you a vegan family? The reason I ask is because your kids might get a bit of a shock when they realise animals are being killed/suffer to feed them or for other products like leather etc. Or is that ok because someone else has to do the killing?


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    #181
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    ~Thalia~ wrote: »
    I don't believe anyone who engages in a sport where the ultimate aim is the death of an animal is an animal lover. My opinion. To claim oneself an animal lover while taking part in hunting is hypocrisy (sp?).

    Clearly you are a vegan then as by the same logic you couldn't love animals and eat meat, eggs, butter etc etc etc

    reminds me a a quote I once saw "Of course I'm an animal lover, they're delicious"

    Also I suppose no-one here owns a cat because lord knows how hard you'd cry at night knowing your cat is outside killing mice, song birds etc


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