Gas Boiler on the Blink - Advice

run_Forrest_run

OK, sorry if this is a little too vague:

The gas boiler went on the blink last Friday, well actually it tripped a trip switch on the main fuse box. So anyway, I reset the trip and re-started the boiler, same thing happened so I left it to be on the safe side.

So a plumber called out this evening. As water was dripping out of the pump he opened it up and water came out of it (obviously!). Now this may have caused the trip as there are wires where the water came out.

The plumber said he could not find where the water was coming from and he said seeing as the boiler is so old (it may be 10 years old but a neighbour said that the boiler was replaced about 5 years ago, so we are not sure how old it actually is..we weren't in the house at the time!) he suggests replacing the entire boiler. He did not actually try and turn on the boiler to see if it would start!

Now we know there is a leak in it somewhere to case water to drip out from the pump and there is also rusting on the roof of the heat exchange (sorry if i am not making this clear!).

So I am just wondering is this guy just out to make some money without really finding out where the leak is or what?

He is due to get back to me in the morning with a price for a new boiler and labour etc.

I have never used this lad before and i just got the number from a friend.

Any advice would be great as I am fairly confused here (and cold!!).

youtheman

I had problems with my gas boiler last year. I changed the pump, but it turned out not to be the source of the problem.

The pump was easy to change. You should have an isolation valve immediately upstream and downstream of the pump. The valve might not have a handle per see, just a slot for a large screwdriver. If you have a pipe wrench then you could try replace it your self. I reckon a pump will cost you around 100 euros, you can even buy them in B&Q. A complete new boiler will cost around 2000 - 2500 euros fitted (1200 for the boiler, the rest labour).

If it was me, and I was of the opinion that it might be the pump, then I'd change the pump. Worst case you are down 100 euros.

The valves I mentioned allow you to change the pump without draining down the complete system. Before you attempt to remove the pump close the valves, and unscrew the bleed screw in the middle of the pump. Adjust the two valves until you are getting no water from the bleed screw (the valves dont have end stops are are free to rotate through 360 degrees so you have to twiggle them to get them to seal).

Make sure you electrically isolate the pump before you start.

run_Forrest_run

sound, thanks youtheman, I think I will go down those lines alright, but I would like a second opinion on the boiler so i will try get another lad out today, yep a new boiler is costly and i don't think the old one is ready to retire just yet!

JamesM

The circulating pump is completely seperate from the boiler. So, if there is water dripping from under the cover where the wires are connected in the pump, that is almost certainly the cause of the tripping. The pump will have to be replaced anyway - after that see how the boiler is - probably OK.

run_Forrest_run

Thanks for that JamesM, I am getting another chap out to look at it. I am inclined to agree with you, surely since water was coming from the pump casing where the wires are that caused the tripping but what could cause the water getting in there, are there valves that can have be damaged within the pump which would cause this? I'm just trying to get up to speed before I meet with the plumber.

JamesM

If we are talking about a water circulating pump something like the ones on this page http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/grundfos-central-heating-348-0000 , then the seal between the impeller and the wiring area can breakdown - sometimes if the water has boiled or just grit and dirt in the system.

If the problem is water coming from somewhere inside the main boiler casing and getting into the control panel wiring, (and you are calling this area "the pump") then that is a lot more serious and may be a leak from the actual boiler itself. Then you will need a new boiler :eek:
Jim.

run_Forrest_run

JamesM wrote: »

If we are talking about a water circulating pump something like the ones on this page http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/grundfos-central-heating-348-0000 , then the seal between the impeller and the wiring area can breakdown - sometimes if the water has boiled or just grit and dirt in the system.

If the problem is water coming from somewhere inside the main boiler casing and getting into the control panel wiring, (and you are calling this area "the pump") then that is a lot more serious and may be a leak from the actual boiler itself. Then you will need a new boiler :eek:
Jim.

Yes, that's the water circulating pumps I am talking about, the pump in my boiler is that exact make, Grundfos. It looks very similar to this one.
So when I removed the black panel on the left hand side water was coming out from there and was dripping over the opening for the electrical lead.

JamesM

Then that pump needs to be replaced - and that's it ! There is no indication from that that there is anything wrong with the boiler.
As a test, disconnect the wires from the pump and carefully put a bit of insulating tape on the end of each one. Then you should be able to start up the boiler. It should run OK. Naturally do not leave it on, as you will have no circulation.
Jim.

run_Forrest_run

Thanks for the help Jim, pity the first plumber didn't just want to replace the pump, he said due to the age of the pump (maybe 10 years but I think it is more like 6 years) he wanted to replace the entire boiler without actually investigating. Of course he said he could replace the pump if I wanted to but he said there still could be a further problem (without actually proving that there was another problem!).

run_Forrest_run

OK, the new & improved plumber arrived and had a good look at the ailing boiler. He saw the leaky state of the pump but also noticed there was a leak within the heat exchanger.
So after some head scratching as to where the leak in the pump was coming from I decided to replace the entire boiler. As it turns out the boiler is about 10 years old (and not younger as I previously thought).

I felt this guy was not giving me the run around, and he is doing the work first thing in the morning. I'm happy enough considering everything and sure I am still waiting on the first lad to get back to me with a price so I think I made the right decision to get a second opinion.

I have decided to go for a Vokera High efficiency condenser boiler..thanks for all the advice folks.

youtheman

My boiler was approx 15 years old. Starting to become unreliable. The heat exchanger was not leaking, but I could see the external fins were corroding badly, bound to affect the performance. A new exchanger was about 800 euros, and a complete new boiler was approx 1200 euros (supply only). No brainer really : replace the lot. It was a Vokera condensing bolier that I fitted.

I was told that I was doing well to get 15 years out of the old boiler.

JamesM

There is no mystery about the leak from the pump - the water runs through it and sometimes leaks from the seals into the wiring. If there is a leak in the heat exchanger as well, it is best to get a new boiler - it will be more efficient anyway. A good flushing out of the system might be a good idea. Corrosion may have caused the 2 leaks.
Jim.

311

JamesM wrote: »

A good flushing out of the system might be a good idea. Corrosion may have caused the 2 leaks.
Jim.

Definetly get the system flushed ,especially with a boiler like the one you are getting.
If you don't ,you may only get a couple of years service from the new one.

run_Forrest_run

oh OK, I never knew of such a thing but I will ask him to carry out a flushing then, what exactly does that consist of?

Thanks folks.

garyh3

I had a problem with my Heat exchange banging and got the system flushed. Problem fixed.

Basicall its a de-scaling for your rads + pipes + boiler

The plumber will drain the heating system.
They will then put in some Sentinel or equiv. into the system and then top your system back up with water.

The is left in for about a week to clean out your system.

The system is then drained out again and then an inhibitor liquid is put in the system and then topped up with water. (should be good for 2 years they say)

System should now be clean + I got a lot more heat out of the rads.

PS. cost 130 euros (but he did shown me how to do it)

regards

garyh3




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katejoy0

i'm having problems with low water pressure in my gas boiler. when i fix it, i have problems with low water pressure again a few day later. any suggestions?

run_Forrest_run

katejoy0 wrote: »

i'm having problems with low water pressure in my gas boiler. when i fix it, i have problems with low water pressure again a few day later. any suggestions?

Could be a leak but I aint no expert by any means
Our old boiler had the same problem and it turned out that there was a leak in the heat exhanger and water getting into the pump also.

However there could be a problem with the expansion vessel within the boiler also, can you locate the safety blowoff valve and see if water is being lost there?
Anyway, as I said I don't really know much so it's best to contact a plumber and get him/her to explain it to you.

oxygen_old

To the OP. I had the same problem with my boiler. It was 12+ yrs old, I called Bord Gais and they sent an engineer. He inspected the boiler and pump and said I need to replace the entire boiler. In fairness, the inside was completly rusted through. The pump on top was leaking into the boiler. He gave me the number of someone to call who quoted me 1,600 to replacepump and get a new boiler. The bord Gais engineer cost €90 but I have a voucher to that amount that I can use to replace the boiler. So in effect there was no cost on the call out.

run_Forrest_run

oxygen wrote: »

To the OP. I had the same problem with my boiler. It was 12+ yrs old, I called Bord Gais and they sent an engineer. He inspected the boiler and pump and said I need to replace the entire boiler. In fairness, the inside was completly rusted through. The pump on top was leaking into the boiler. He gave me the number of someone to call who quoted me 1,600 to replacepump and get a new boiler. The bord Gais engineer cost €90 but I have a voucher to that amount that I can use to replace the boiler. So in effect there was no cost on the call out.

yep, sounds similar to the problem I had...I got a new boiler also, one of those high efficiency ones, no more drop in pressure and it purrs like a kitten