Tight adductors and recurring hip bursitis from running

flaka

There does not seem to be a running forum here so I've posted in Fitness.

I've what a physio has diagnosed as Trochanteric Bursitis. Caused by weak glutes. I've iced it and done glute strengthening exercise for a couple of months. Problem reduced significantly.

I've also super tight adductors, had them for as long as I can remember. Some physical therapy has helped release these through myofascial massage and stretching.

I went for a run on Sunday for about 12 minutes - nothing too intense ~5min/k. Felt the bursar a little but that went away.

I should say I stretch my adductors and glutes everyday. The bursitis problem has been reduced to pain only when I adduct leg to a large degree and do not (did not) cause discomoft during normal day-to-day routines.

Today the bursar is very sore again. Clearly I've aggravated the problem and that’s my fault.

What I want to know is - how can I re-learn running so I engage my glutes more effectively. I can strengthen them doing exercises and weights - but when I run at some point I'm lapsing into poor form, relying on my TFL and adductors.

I never feel sore in the glutes after running - should I?
After a session my adductors are tightened, my claves can do with a stretch but that’s it.

I've seen some methods online such as Chi Running and Pose Tech - anyone experience with this?
Is there somewhere in Dublin I can go to have my running examined?

Or do I have to work on the glutes until they are more dominant than TFL?

I'm pretty bumbed out as this is a set back. I was hoping to run the 10k in Phoenix Park.

Thanks in advance.

lolo2

Hey,

I get some serious hip issues as well from running. I have only been informally diagnosed by a physio friend. I know the agonies mate! The only thing that has worked for me is staying off the concrete as much as I can. I had to take 6 complete weeks off running. Then I have been using the treadmill as much as possible and saving my legs for the concrete of the road races. It kinda sucks but what can ya do? Maybe theres a nice soft track somewhere nearby you.

Also, when your stretching try to hold the stretch for 60-90 seconds, the ITB needs a good long stretch because its not just muscle tissue your trying to stretch there, its the fascia or something. (Physio friends advice - i am clueless here, i dont even know if fascia stretch).

I'm no expert on running form but just thought I'd suggest staying off the concrete, yet using the tread or some other soft surface until your sorted.

BTW, was it the BUPA run you were looking at doing? I can't seem to register!

Patto

I picked up a hip injury before Christmas running a 10K race without doing propper prep for it. By God have I paid for it. 4 physio sessions later and it still blows up after any serious stint on the road. What is it with hip injuries. You injure one muscle and the whole thing tightens up. I did a 6 miles run with one serious hill run yesterday, I had to stop and the top of the hill and stretch, I then had to gingerly jog down the hill, the impact is a killer. Spent over an hour stretching, foam and sliotar rolling afterwards. I sat on a sliotar for at least 30 mkinutes, thats fun:(

The funny thing is its not the original injury which was at the front of my hip, its the ITB and all the muscles at the side and back of my hip that tighten up.

To the OP, maybe do more intervals at a faster pace. Running faster will force you to use your glutes more. I find the intervals much easier on my hips and I do them on a track or on grass.

Why are hip injuries so bloody slow to heal? I worry about training on them too, you so often hear of runners and even soccer players doing serious damage to their hips.

catyb20

Patto wrote: »

Why are hip injuries so bloody slow to heal? I worry about training on them too, you so often hear of runners and even soccer players doing serious damage to their hips.

I don't know much about the hip injuries talked about here... but I will tell you i had an op on my hip over 2 years ago and its still not right (thats after physio etc) If anything its getting worse. I used to love long walks/slow jog and can't do that anymore. After i walk i hurt like hell, and if i were to jog/run ....well i actually just could'nt as I get shooting pains in my leg once my foot hits the ground at a fast pace!

So, what i would say is go to the doc/physio or whatever and do exactly as they tell you! Maybe theres an underlying prob? Make sure you get a reputable physio as well, as before i got my op, the physio i was with had'nt a notion what she was doing!!

g'em

flaka wrote: »

There does not seem to be a running forum here so I've posted in Fitness.

There's also an Athletics forum which might be of use?

flaka

Hi,
The intensity training is an idea - did a few sprint intervals in december and suffered no advers hip pain as a result.

G'em - could this post be moved to Athletics?

Cheers

g'em

no problemo

Lil' Smiler

flaka wrote: »

There does not seem to be a running forum here so I've posted in Fitness.

I've what a physio has diagnosed as Trochanteric Bursitis. Caused by weak glutes. I've iced it and done glute strengthening exercise for a couple of months. Problem reduced significantly.

I've also super tight adductors, had them for as long as I can remember. Some physical therapy has helped release these through myofascial massage and stretching.

I went for a run on Sunday for about 12 minutes - nothing too intense ~5min/k. Felt the bursar a little but that went away.

I should say I stretch my adductors and glutes everyday. The bursitis problem has been reduced to pain only when I adduct leg to a large degree and do not (did not) cause discomoft during normal day-to-day routines.

Today the bursar is very sore again. Clearly I've aggravated the problem and that’s my fault.

What I want to know is - how can I re-learn running so I engage my glutes more effectively. I can strengthen them doing exercises and weights - but when I run at some point I'm lapsing into poor form, relying on my TFL and adductors.

I never feel sore in the glutes after running - should I?
After a session my adductors are tightened, my claves can do with a stretch but that’s it.

I've seen some methods online such as Chi Running and Pose Tech - anyone experience with this?
Is there somewhere in Dublin I can go to have my running examined?

Or do I have to work on the glutes until they are more dominant than TFL?

I'm pretty bumbed out as this is a set back. I was hoping to run the 10k in Phoenix Park.

Thanks in advance.

How long ago did the Physio diagnose you with this?
Most cases of bursitis subside over a few weeks with complete rest and some physical treatment.

Did your Physio say anything to you about your posture? Improper posture should be corrected, even if it is a hip problem. Hip problems can lead to ow back and SI joint problems - horrible and painful for treatment!


Also, make sure you shoes fit properly, possibility of difference in leg length is common with hip problems,.

flaka

Lil' Smiler wrote: »

How long ago did the Physio diagnose you with this?

Diagnosis was in September/October.

Lil' Smiler wrote: »

Most cases of bursitis subside over a few weeks with complete rest and some physical treatment.

After ~4 sessions (two months) it was still sore but improving.

Lil' Smiler wrote: »

Did your Physio say anything to you about your posture?

Nothing about posture, that I can recall. When I run the left knee points inwards rather than in direction of toes. Right is fine.

I was doing exercises to strengthen the gluteus medius on the left. One legged squats aggravate the problem.


I don't have any lower back pain, knee pain, ankle pain. It’s very localised.
I do have much tighter adductors on left to right.
Tighter psoas on left compared to right
My lower back on the right is tighter than the left.... I've spent a lot of time researching this.

Also, make sure you shoes fit properly, possibility of difference in leg length is common with hip problems,.

Maintaining pelvic stability is probably a factor.

Patto

OMG this Athletics forum is fairly dead.

Do you know what caused your injury?

My injury is very similar to yours, mine was caused by doing too much too soon but it hasn't fully gone away which leads me believe there is an underlying problem. I'm suspicious of my runners at the moment.

My injury is aggravated by running at a slow pace (8 or 9 min miles) on concrete and running hills. Running at a slower pace or a faster pace or on a gentle downhill doesn't bother me as much.

doke

I got what sounds like the same injury last year during my build up for the Anglo Celtic Plate (100K). Specifically it came on after I ran the Connemara ultra as a training run. It's been a recurring injury for me over the last ten years, every time I step up my mileage.

My coach (Norrie Williamson, author of Everyone's Guide To Long Distance Running) reckoned it was caused by some imbalance and recommended I see a chiropractor. Unfortunately hadn't healed by the time of the Plate (running 100K on it was one of the most awful experiences of my life) but it miraculously cleared up within a few weeks (to the point I was able to run a 24 Hour race in Canada within a couple of months) and hasn't bothered me since.

So I'd say get yourself an appointment with a good chiro to check your balance/alignment. If you can get one that doubles a chiro/physio, even better. Drop me a PM if you want the contact details of the guy I went to.

Patto

Just to follow up on my own injury, I went back to my old runners two weeks ago, then bought a new pair last week and threw out my normal pair. The injury is nearly gone already. It was the runners, I'm 90% sure. I have gone back to a neutral sole from a pronated supported sole. I could feel the difference right away.

flaka

doke wrote: »

My coach (Norrie Williamson, author of Everyone's Guide To Long Distance Running) reckoned it was caused by some imbalance and recommended I see a chiropractor.

It turns out I've some Scoliosis to the right. I've a much more bulked up QL on the right and more muscle mass in the right glute than the left. This article made a lot of sense based on my body.

http://www.fitness-nutrition-weightloss.com/how-to-avoid-running-injuries.html

doke wrote: »

So I'd say get yourself an appointment with a good chiro to check your balance/alignment. If you can get one that doubles a chiro/physio, even better. Drop me a PM if you want the contact details of the guy I went to.

I don't know about Chiropractors - I'm not comfortable with people pushing my spine around - wouldn't muscle imbalance and movement patterns just pull the spine back to its curved position?



Having siad that an Osteopath has been janking on my left leg and monitoring my pelvic alignment and torsion.



Sometimes I think these are all pulling my leg.... Physio, physical, osteo, chiro... it seems like each has one set of tools and matches your problem to his limited range of solutions. I'd like to get them all in a room to have it out and come up with a real answer.

The worst was a stand-in GP - antibiotics were not going to help.



A few more months and I will give the Chiro a shot....



In the mean time I've taken the approach of stretch and strengthen. A longer term strategy which I hope will be a longer term solution.



The way I see it is I've lived long enough (31 years) without this scoliosis being a problem or limitation to activity.
I've altered my work out to focus on stabilizing muscles, strengthening and stretching a-la Pavel Tsatsouline to developer strength-flexibility.

I don't lift anything heavier than my body weight. I've dropped body fat and increased tone.



I do 4mins HIIT on elliptical to start up my heart.



Two months ago I could not stretch my adductors without them feeling like they were going to tear apart. When I stretch them it feels like relief and not pain. I've strengthened the adductors after some Physical Therapy to release them.



Now I can do fairly deep Cossacks.

I worked on Adductors based on Pavel Tsatsouline and:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1508256 Hips Don't Lie: Fixing Your Force Couples


Two months ago I could not squat without pain. Now I can sit in a squat for long enough.
I've worked on glute activation based on Pavel Tsatsouline and:
Get Your Butt In Gear! http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=495189
Because you've gotta train ass to haul ass

Get Your Butt In Gear! II http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=497495



Now I'm going for Pistols.


I've adopted an ab routine from Jeff Kunard's 20 Min. Hotel Workout Pt. 2 (Ford Models Fitness)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qceX0bP7xTI



The original pain has significantly reduced even though I've remained active. Active in different ways. Nothing I do day to day or in workout tweaks the problem area. I can still feel pain if I deliberately over push my hip out to the side when my glutes are slack. If I activate the glutes this lessens the degree I can do this and as a concequence the pain.


On the running side of things I used to run in Asics GT-2100 - no problems. Used to do 10k at weekends and 5k mid-week.
Those were great shoes but have been retired to mucky duty.
I've Asics GT-2120 now. Can't say I've put in the same mileage on these.


What will this do for me 40 years from now, I don't know. I've great ROM in shoulders and hips now - thanks to returning to basic joint mobility exercise.

I've not done any running in about a month - last time flared up the problem. Walking for 30 mins, yes, no problems.

I plan on a run ~5 mins tomorrow. Will see how things are.

doke

flaka wrote: »

I don't know about Chiropractors - I'm not comfortable with people pushing my spine around - wouldn't muscle imbalance and movement patterns just pull the spine back to its curved position?

.

I think the good ones won't just realign you, but tell you what bad habits are likely to be causing the misalignment, and give your core strengthening type exercises to stop it from recurring. At least the one I went to did (though might have had something to do with him also being a physio).

I agree that a holistic approach incorporating different methods would tend to work better. I tend to be more wary of alternative methods than most.

My wife had an even greater success story with our chiro. She had chronic hip problems that had been diagnosed as sciatica. Chiro realigned her, felt it went back to a serious motor accident she was in over 30 years ago, gave her core strengthening exercises, and within a few weeks she was better than ever. Supposed sciatica just gone, as if by magic.

run_Forrest_run

catyb20 wrote: »

..
So, what i would say is go to the doc/physio or whatever and do exactly as they tell you! Maybe theres an underlying prob? Make sure you get a reputable physio as well, as before i got my op, the physio i was with had'nt a notion what she was doing!!

here here, i've had my fair share of physios who didn't know what they were doing but they still let on that they were helping to fix the problem and wanted me to keep coming back..yeah right...I copped on quick enough...

I then tried an osteopath and I was impressed, I felt she did more good in the 3 sessions that the physio ever did...I am back on the road now but i will pop in to the osteopath for a session every few months to ensure everything is aligned properly with the hip and back etc.

goldfish007

Have faith in physios!! chiros- they jst manipulate the spine, which can have adverse affects on the surrending muscles. the other guy was right, with correct muscle stength training it really should realign the spine. sometimes physio work just needs time, months I'm talking. chiro's may (sometimes i stress!) "fix" the problem temporaily, but it's not finding the CAUSE of the problem and sorting that out, which is what's most important.

showry

I'm in the same boat.
I hurt my hip training for the marathon last year
I went to physio and stayed off the road for 12 weeks or so while he worked on the core and tried to get my balance right.
I went back mainly running on grass and the track and it was grand but then I upped the road miles to get ready for the Dungarvan 10 mile and Ballycotton, pushed it a bit hard one day and was back to square one with it.

I'm seeing a different physio now and he's working on the TFL. I did 3 miles at the weekend and it was fairly sore after it.

It's really frustrating not being able to run though. I'd made huge improvements last year but I think a combination of patience, strength and stretching as mentioned by flaka above is probably the best solution for me.

I've bought a bike to keep the fitness up and have given myself the Sean Kelly tour as a target to aim for.