help an old school techie build a new school machine!

0ubliette

Hello,
its been a long time since i last built a PC and im rather out of the loop with whats the best components for a new build at the moment. I have a fair idea, but could do with some help.
The last PC i built was in 2004, it was a (for the time) monster amd 64 3400, 1gb PC3200 ram, and a geforce 7800 GT. It still performs fairly well but its starting to show its age and i want to start on a new project.

So, far as i can tell, seems like 2 things have happened since 2004:

Intel CPU's (core duo's) seem to be regarded much higher than AMD equivalents now, amirite?
Nvidia GPU's seem to have overtaken ATI for the moment aswell?

Going on these factors, ive been looking on komplett at the following:

CPU

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=330169
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 8MB

(im also guessing socket 775 is what most people are using? it was socket 754 when i built mine.. :rolleyes:)

MOBO
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=331973
ABIT Fatal1ty FP-IN9 SLI,nForce-650i SLI , DDR2, Socket-775, GbLAN, 2xPCI-Ex16
The mobo concerns me tbh. mobos were alot simpler back when nobody used SLI!! Im guessing an sli mobo doesnt HAVE to use sli, right? I can still use a single gpu in it?

GRAPHICS
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331
XFX GeForce 8800GTS 500M 640MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 320-bit
To be honest this could change, as ill be only buying components on a motnh by month basis or so, depending on what i can afford so by the time i get around to the gpu, the price of a better card may have come down. But for the time being i think this looks like a good choice (bear in mind my monitors max res is 1280 x 1024 so i wont be going higher than that for gaming)
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331

RAM
okay i need help here, whats the best speed ram for a mobo like that?
im aware the standard now is 2 gigs, i wouldnt mind future proofing and going for 3, maybe 4 gigs for a laugh..

And what wattage PSU would you need for a pc like this?

opinions wanted!

thanks

Skittle

CPU:
Socket 775 is the norm for the Core 2 Duo chips nowadays. There's a slightly higher spec Q6600, a 2.6GHz version which you might consider, also make sure you get the low wattage version of the Q6600, it has G0 stepping.

Mobo:
You can use a single graphics card in an SLI machine no problem. SLI isn't the be all it was supposed to be. A lot of games are having problems on SLI type systems. Also since you've gone with an NForce board, you can only do SLI, you can't do ATI Crossfire for example. Me, I went with an Intel P35 board, I wasn't pushed about SLI as I was planning on getting a single 8800GTX card.

Graphics:
For the res your gaming at, it'll be fine.

RAM:
4Gb if you've got a 64-bit OS, it's so cheap now-a-days that I'd go for 4Gb just for the sake of it. Make sure it's matched so it'll operate in Interleaved Mode. Also if you plan on overclocking, get some good fast RAM.

Power:
Hard to say, 600 Watts should cover it.

0ubliette

Skittle wrote: »

CPU:
Socket 775 is the norm for the Core 2 Duo chips nowadays. There's a slightly higher spec Q6600, a 2.6GHz version which you might consider, also make sure you get the low wattage version of the Q6600, it has G0 stepping.

Mobo:
You can use a single graphics card in an SLI machine no problem. SLI isn't the be all it was supposed to be. A lot of games are having problems on SLI type systems. Also since you've gone with an NForce board, you can only do SLI, you can't do ATI Crossfire for example. Me, I went with an Intel P35 board, I wasn't pushed about SLI as I was planning on getting a single 8800GTX card.

Graphics:
For the res your gaming at, it'll be fine.

RAM:
4Gb if you've got a 64-bit OS, it's so cheap now-a-days that I'd go for 4Gb just for the sake of it. Make sure it's matched so it'll operate in Interleaved Mode. Also if you plan on overclocking, get some good fast RAM.

Power:
Hard to say, 600 Watts should cover it.

thanks for the suggestions,
tbh, i was planning on sticking with XP. Vista is just a system hog, maybe after a few service packs ill upgrade but i had it on a laptop and aside from looking fancy, it didnt do much for me.
For the ram though, what speed would you recommend, i.e DDR2/3/ PC5300/etc/ (ram always confused me, even in my first build)

Virgil°

About 2 gigs of ddr2 pc6400 is a good amount atm. Dirt cheap too. As skittle said If you have a little extra money knocking about and a 64bit OS then 4 gigs is a good investment also.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=320744

0ubliette

Virgil° wrote: »

About 2 gigs of ddr2 pc6400 is a good amount atm. Dirt cheap too. As skittle said If you have a little extra money knocking about and a 64bit OS then 4 gigs is a good investment also.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=320744

jeez for 45 notes for 2 gig, i may as well go the whole hog and splash out 90 for 4 gig!
thanks

Virgil°

0ubliette wrote: »

jeez for 45 notes for 2 gig, i may as well go the whole hog and splash out 90 for 4 gig!
thanks

Even less than ninety.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=339129

And if you plan on oc'ing at some stage 2x2gig sticks is better than 4x1gig afaik.

0ubliette

Virgil° wrote: »

Even less than ninety.
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=339129

And if you plan on oc'ing at some stage 2x2gig sticks is better than 4x1gig afaik.

thank ya very much!!
i probably wont bother oc'in, but id rather have 2 sticks than 4!
cheers again for the help

PogMoThoin

Are you planning on overclocking in the future?
There are a few things i'd change:

Mobo, don't get a 650i chipset, in fact don't get a nvidia chipset at all, go for either an Intel p35 or x38. These boards will handle 4Gb of memory better and also give a better overclock. They will also support future 45nm processors.

Gpu, dont get the 640Mb GTS, the new G92 revision 512Mb GTS perfroms better.

Ram, if you go with 4Gb your going to need a 64bit operating system to recognise the full 4Gb. Vista 64bit is the one thats recommended here as it seems to be less buggy and has better support than Xp 64bit. Also if your going with 4Gb and considering overclocking try to get a 2x2Gb stick set as boards handle these better.

Psu, 600W minimum to allow for future upgrades, good quality name brands, Antec, Seasonic, Corsair.

Shiminay

You'll have to have XP 64 or Vista to read the 4 gigs though. That mo-bo will take up to PC6400 RAM, so go with that and it is well cheap.

600 W PSU will suffice - try get something modular to make the build easier and the finished product neater (I have a Seasonic M12 700W myself which is really nice to work with).

What kind of case are you putting all this into? How will it be for cooling? I have an Antec P900 which has a huge amount of fans that can hardly be heard when on lowest speed setting and the cpu and mobo haven't gone over 30 degrees. I learned the hard way that skrimping on the case is a mistake Thankfully nothing blew up, but stuff was running hot.

Hope that helps.

Skittle

Can I give another tumbs up for the Seasonic M12 700W power supply. I have it in my machine and it's quality. Modular design is the way to go! Also you never mentioned CPU cooling, are you planning on going with air or water? If you are going with air, then get yourself a Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler (others may suggest better alternatives, I'm just suggesting the one I have), you'll need a 120mm fan to go with it, might I suggest a Scythe S-FLEX 1600RPM Ultra Quiet 120mm Fan, again I have one and am quite happy with it.

savemejebus

If you're going for 4 gigs of ram, it's better to get it in 2x2gb sticks. I got a couple of sticks of this ram last week and it's doing fine so far.

If you're only gaming at 1280 x 1024 the ati 3870 is a good card at a good pricepoint, other than that a 512mb 8800gt (as mentioned by PogMoThoin) is much better value than the 640mb gts.

If you don't plan on overclocking or sli then the Gigabyte GA-p35-ds3l and ga-p31-ds3l are nice boards that will save you a few quid (note: don't get the p31 board if you plan on using 1gb sticks of ram as it will limit your upgrade - the mainboard doesn't handle more than 2 double sided sticks of ram too well)

PSU wise the Corsair HX 520 and HX 620w psus are good value and more importantly good quality (made by seasonic but generally a bit cheaper and a 5 year warranty).

I've linked to dabs here just because they are a nice bit cheaper but they can be pains in the arse with security checks.

Virgil°

Yeah seasonic m12's are a good psu.
Although id have to disagree with puchasing another air cooler to replace the included stock cooler unless you are really picky about getting the temps of your cpu down. The cpu stock cooler usually does the job quite well unless your gonna overclock it quite a bit

0ubliette

great advice here lads, thanks alot. Case i hadnt really though about yet, im considering just stripping my current case and using that (i like my case!) but we'll see. Overclocking i wont be doing (never oc'd my current rig after one attempt resulted in a fux0red 6800 GS), so stock cooling on the CPU should do it.
okay so based on peoples recommendations ive revised my plans thusly:

MOBO:
ABIT IP35 PRO, P35, Socket-775, ATX, Silent Otes2, 2xGbLAN, DDR2, 2xPCI-Ex16
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=335649

CPU: (no change)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 8MB
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=330169

RAM
OCZ Platinum DDR2 PC6400 4096MB KIT, w/two 2048MB PC6400 XTC, CL5-5-5-4
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=339129
Gonna go with 4 gig. Is it really work getting vista? I mean i had a laptop with 2 gig of ram in it and vista ate over 500mb's of that just being idle, but with 4gb ram would you even really notice that?

GPU
so i was looking at the 512mb models, and the 640mb. Theres not much price difference, and reviews of both seem good, suggestions?

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 512MB GDDR3
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=343610

XFX GeForce 8800GTS 500M 640MB GDDR3
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331

PSU:
Thermaltake Toughpower 750W, 6xSATA, ATX/EPS, 2xPCI-E, 20/24pin
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=323796

okay another noob question time, regarding SATA. Obviously the mobo has sata connections, but im confussed by all this eSATA, and SATA2, and then 2.5" / 3.5" sata drives etc etc.

this ones SATA2
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327715

would it be compatible with the mobo ive picked?

Sorry for acting the noob...ive jsut been outta the loop too long!!

dazftw

When are the new intel quadcores out? should waut fir them if its soon thats my plan anyway..

savemejebus

I've heard good things about that mainboard and ocz ram is usually good.

Regarding the gfx, unless you are buying a new monitor with a higher resolution the gts could be overkill, the GT seems to be the sweetspot gfx wise at the moment.

Couldn't tell you about the thermaltake psu although I seem to recall there being quality issues a few years ago.

Regarding eSata and Sata2 eSata is for connecting external sata discs while sata 2 was originally the group moving the sata standard forward. However most people take sata 2 to mean an advance of the original sata standard. Good HDD manufacturers are seagate, hitachi, western digital and Samsung. A general rule used to be avoid maxtor but i'm not sure if that still stands, still better to be safe than sorry. The drive you've chosen will be compatible with your mainboard and while not the fastest hdd available is supposedly whisper quiet.

2.5" sata is the size of sata drives for laptops while 3.5" is the size for desktops.

0ubliette

savemejebus wrote: »

I've heard good things about that mainboard and ocz ram is usually good.

Regarding the gfx, unless you are buying a new monitor with a higher resolution the gts could be overkill, the GT seems to be the sweetspot gfx wise at the moment.

Couldn't tell you about the thermaltake psu although I seem to recall there being quality issues a few years ago.

Regarding eSata and Sata2 eSata is for connecting external sata discs while sata 2 was originally the group moving the sata standard forward. However most people take sata 2 to mean an advance of the original sata standard. Good HDD manufacturers are seagate, hitachi, western digital and Samsung. A general rule used to be avoid maxtor but i'm not sure if that still stands, still better to be safe than sorry. The drive you've chosen will be compatible with your mainboard and while not the fastest hdd available is supposedly whisper quiet.

2.5" sata is the size of sata drives for laptops while 3.5" is the size for desktops.

Jeez i really shouldve copped that, i mean im a network/desktop/server tech guy in my job!

Okay thats really helped anyway, all the sata stuff confused the hell out of me, but a 500gb drive should be more than enough storage for me. Currently ive 2 x 120gb drives and neither is even approaching being full

PogMoThoin

Just to clear up the gpu issue, the 512Mb 8800GTS replaced the 640Mb 8800GTS, even though it has less memory it is way faster & performs much better. There is also a cheaper 512Mb 8800GT which is also faster than the 640Mb GTS. Therefore the 640Mb is not really an option as even a cheaper gpu is faster.
Your main choices here are:
512Mb 8800GTS, 512 MB 8800GT or you could opt for an ATI 512Mb 3870 since your gaming at lower resolutions at the moment. Maybe you'll buy a 20-22" widescreen in future. Just consider how much your willing to spend?

0ubliette

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Just to clear up the gpu issue, the 512Mb 8800GTS replaced the 640Mb 8800GTS, even though it has less memory it is way faster & performs much better. There is also a cheaper 512Mb 8800GT which is also faster than the 640Mb GTS. Therefore the 640Mb is not really an option as even a cheaper gpu is faster.
Your main choices here are:
512Mb 8800GTS, 512 MB 8800GT or you could opt for an ATI 512Mb 3870 since your gaming at lower resolutions at the moment. Maybe you'll buy a 20-22" widescreen in future. Just consider how much your willing to spend?

i reckon ill opt for the 512mb GTS, as even tho im currently only using 1280 x 1024, i do have a 32" widescreen HDTV with a VGA input, so i may hook it up to that for a bit later on.
Thanks again for all suggestions, this has really helped me narrow down my options, what i have posted here is more than liekly what ill go with for the final build

savemejebus

0ubliette wrote: »

i reckon ill opt for the 512mb GTS, as even tho im currently only using 1280 x 1024, i do have a 32" widescreen HDTV with a VGA input, so i may hook it up to that for a bit later on.

Your HDTV prob. only does 720p which iirc would be less than 1280 x 1024. Just something to bear in mind.

0ubliette

savemejebus wrote: »

Your HDTV prob. only does 720p which iirc would be less than 1280 x 1024. Just something to bear in mind.

nah i think it does 1080i or p one or the other. Still not a massive res but ill give it a bash.

TerrorFirmer

Don't bother with a 512mb GTS for such a low resolution, total and utter waste.

I have a 3870 on a 20" monitor and play Call of Duty 4 at 1680x1050 max settings 2xAA - no problems, let alone several resolutions down again.

In fact, not only do you not need a 512mb GTS, you don't really even need a 512mb GT either, a 256mb 8800GT will drive games at that resolution pretty damn well, as well the better 512mb 3870, which can be gotten for as low as 185-190 online.

Of course, it's your choice, but I would consider any of the Nvida cards mentioned a bit of a waste in your circumstances, the 3870 being a far better and much cheaper choice, and even the 8800GT 256mb or equivilent Ati 256mb 3850 being suitable choices.

0ubliette

HavoK wrote: »

Don't bother with a 512mb GTS for such a low resolution, total and utter waste.

I have a 3870 on a 20" monitor and play Call of Duty 4 at 1680x1050 max settings 2xAA - no problems, let alone several resolutions down again.

In fact, not only do you not need a 512mb GTS, you don't really even need a 512mb GT either, a 256mb 8800GT will drive games at that resolution pretty damn well, as well the better 512mb 3870, which can be gotten for as low as 185-190 online.

Of course, it's your choice, but I would consider any of the Nvida cards mentioned a bit of a waste in your circumstances, the 3870 being a far better and much cheaper choice, and even the 8800GT 256mb or equivilent Ati 256mb 3850 being suitable choices.

well im future proofing you see, in case i get a better monitor sometime down the line. I could be wrong, but i think my monitor may actually go higher than 1280 x 1024, but thats about as hardcore a res as my 7800 could handle so i never bothered going over

Skittle

Can I just throw another option into the mix. Ask yourself how valuable is the data that's going to be stored on your hard drive? Also how good are you at backing up stuff? I bought two hard drives and created a RAID 1 (mirror) configuration, just in case a disk failed.

0ubliette

Skittle wrote: »

Can I just throw another option into the mix. Ask yourself how valuable is the data that's going to be stored on your hard drive? Also how good are you at backing up stuff? I bought two hard drives and created a RAID 1 (mirror) configuration, just in case a disk failed.

well i run backups on a few terrabytes worth of data every week in work

Nah nothing critical is going on this bad boy, some games, movies music, most of which ill be copying from my old hard disks so ill have those if anything fails, tbh RAID is essential on servers and stuff but for my own pc now i think it would unnecessarily complicate things

savemejebus

If you are going to get the 8800 gts 512mb card, don't buy it from komplett, they are very much overpriced compared to Dabs, overclockers etc. The cheapest 512mb 8800gts on komplett is €335 while dabs have cheap ones at 258 and good brands like EVGA at €275

0ubliette

savemejebus wrote: »

If you are going to get the 8800 gts 512mb card, don't buy it from komplett, they are very much overpriced compared to Dabs, overclockers etc. The cheapest 512mb 8800gts on komplett is €335 while dabs have cheap ones at 258 and good brands like EVGA at €275

its almost 100 euro cheaper on dabs for the Evga one...good call jebus!!

Shiminay

I got one of those Abit P35 boards for my brothers machine which I built at Christmas and found it to be somewhat problematic... Something went wrong, I never figured out what, but the bios got sideways and even flashing it seemed to cause problems to the extend that I had to reset it every time the machine restarted (luckily there's a wee switch on the back panel for this).

After some time faffing about with it, I managed to get it stabilised and it's running smooth according to my brother.

0ubliette

actually this asustek one on dabs is cheaper and seems to have most of the features of the abit one

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4QNM&CategorySelectedId=11143&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11143,48760000

Shiminay

I have an Asus Striker Extreme myself and despite the fact that it "broke" for some reason they didn't tell me and it took a bitta time to get sorted (over Christmas), I'm happy overall with the board and the stuff that comes with, so I'd buy them again.

0ubliette

yeah my current board is an asus mobo and its stood me in good stead for almost 4 years now, never had a days trouble with it.
im looking forward to this build now

0ubliette

k, having reviewed the situation heres what im going for

Asustek S775 Intel P35 ATX GLAN €95.95
http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?quicklinx=4QNM&CategorySelectedId=11022&PageMode=1&InMerch=1

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 512MB GDDR3 PCIE Dual DVI 650/1.94 €275.61
http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?quicklinx=4TW1&CategorySelectedId=11022&PageMode=1&aQuicklinx=4KZM&InMerch=1

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775 € 232.50
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=330169

Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM € 89.00
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=331024

OCZ Technology 2x2GB 240DIMM PC2-6400 Gold €94.42
http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?quicklinx=4KZM&CategorySelectedId=11022&PageMode=1&aQuicklinx=4QNM&InMerch=1

Thermaltake Toughpower 750W € 133.00
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=323796


probably wont be built for a while, i reckon ill get one or two parts per month over the coming months