Good auld Sweden

Tim Robbins

Got this from the Iona website.

Looks like the Sweds are going all out to prevent religious fundamentalism.
I would be pro religious education, but would against telling kids one and only one religion is absolute truth, so it seems like good legislation to me. It would be good to see the EU move this way and force Hannafin to do it. She's such a fence sitter she would be just terrified to progress this complex issue in a multicultural Ireland.

Sweden and religious freedom (David Quinn)

The Swedish government is severely curtailing religious activities in Swedish schools. The restrictions will apply even to religious-run schools, including Church-run ones. The only religious activities that can be conducted on school property under these regulations will be prayer, so long as it is not communicated that there is any objective reality behind the prayer, and religion in religion class, so long as it is not communicated that the religion in question has any objective reality behind it.

This is truly extraordinary. The ostensible reason for this new policy is that the Swedish government wants to curtail the spread of fundamentalism, but it is using a very large tar-brush to achieve this objective. To put it another way, it is like banning practically all cars from the road in order to reduce the number of traffic accidents.

Ironically, what it amounts to is the enshrinement of religious relativism as the official ideology of the Swedish State, one that is being imposed on all schools, even religious ones. It means that a Catholic or Protestant or Jewish school cannot teach that Catholicism or Protestantism or Judaism is actually true.

One presumes that the Swedish government is not so keen to relativise the values important to it, for example, equality. In fact, equality is promoted by the Swedish government as the One True Religion, the value of all values, the goal that trumps all other goals. This is one reason why Sweden is admired by a lot of people. It puts equality first.

Unfortunately, the Swedish government will no longer allow religious believers in Sweden to put their own religions first, or at least not in their schools, because the Swedish government cannot distinguish between violent fundamentalism and sincere profession of religious beliefs. It is hard to see the point of Swedish religious schools now. Where Sweden leads will others follow?

Dades

Sweden ftw.

Schools are for proper education. Nothing to stop parents preaching religion at home.

Pompey Magnus

God Hates Sweden.

Scofflaw

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

God Hates Sweden.

Man*, that God* really gets his hate on!

cordially,
Scofflaw


* reversible

bluefinger

Thank God for Sweden.

CerebralCortex

Why hasn't someone hacked those sites?

smcelhinney

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

God Hates Sweden.

Does anyone else notice that the "God Hates.." websites are written in simple language with large font?

Pretty much speaks volumes about the audience and the website creators..

bluefinger

Like this?

Rev Hellfire

Its a thing of beauty *wipes tear from eye*

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Got this from the Iona website.

A bit ironic that Quinn who presumably makes a reasonable living from writing anti-humanist tracts, should have swiped the international humanist logo:

http://www.ionainstitute.ie/
http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanistvision-logo.php

Plonker.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote: »

A bit ironic that Quinn who presumably makes a reasonable living from writing anti-humanist tracts, should have swiped the international humanist logo:

http://www.ionainstitute.ie/
http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanistvision-logo.php

Plonker.

Don't see what makes Quinn a plonker. The original humanist logo should have been copyright protected. If it was time for some friendly letters and then the courts. If it wasn't it's time for the humanists to ask why the cock up.

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Don't see what makes Quinn a plonker.

You mean, apart from nicking his opponents' logo, presumably unintentionally?

Would the humanists look very smart if their logo was a cross?

Pompey Magnus

robindch wrote: »

Would the humanists look very smart if their logo was a cross?

Well to be fair the Christians stole that as well, it was a symbol of State justified execution as well as a symbol used by various pre-Christian communities.

Weidii

Hopefully more countries will follow Swedens approach.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote: »

You mean, apart from nicking his opponents' logo, presumably unintentionally?

I think you missed my point. If the humanists had that logo copyright protected, it would be quite funny snaring his group over it. They obviously haven't and it would be very interesting if Quinn (did Quinn himself really pick it?) now has the copyright for it.

Would the humanists look very smart if their logo was a cross?

They do have use the golden rule maxim in many of their publications and then refer to Confucus (sp.) as the source of it.

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think you missed my point.

Well, I'd certainly like to see Quinn up for snagging the humanists' copyright -- but I'm inclined to think that he did it accidentally. Which would suggest that he doesn't know much about the people that he makes some of his living from slagging off. And that's funny

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote: »

Well, I'd certainly like to see Quinn up for snagging the humanists' copyright -- but I'm inclined to think that he did it accidentally. Which would suggest that he doesn't know much about the people that he makes some of his living from slagging off. And that's funny

I don't think he slags them off. He slags off militant atheists. Some of whom could do with a slagging imo.

I would imagine there is some tension in the religious types that humanist associations are using the word "humanist" as opposed to secularist.
It makes atheists and agnostics out to be nice people when previous they thought they had sole ownership on that concept.

All that said, Quinn is far more acceptable than any of the creationist nut jobs. He's quite well up on current affairs and a reasonable panelist anytime in the media, even though I don't agree with him.

Wreck

Dades wrote: »

Sweden ftw.
Schools are for proper education.

QFT

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I would imagine there is some tension in the religious types that humanist associations are using the word "humanist" as opposed to secularist.

I don't think so. The religious tend to be contemptuous of both secularists and humanists and don't seem to appreciate that there's any difference between the two. And I suspect they don't really care about it either, perhaps like most here probably don't really stay awake at night worrying about the differences between catholicism and nestorianism, or exactly how homoousios differs from homoiousios, or the spelling of either.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

All that said, Quinn is far more acceptable than any of the creationist nut jobs. He's quite well up on current affairs and a reasonable panelist

To each their own -- I find Quinn dogmatic and uninformed to a point well beyond most creationists.

Hivemind187

Gotta love them Sweed's.

... I wonder if I could emigrate.

Attractive Nun

Initially I was a little reluctant to support the banning of religious teaching in denomonational schools, but after some thought I think it's entirely appropriate. 'Education' is not, and should not involve, indoctrination of any sort.

I do wonder what people would think of religious parents who would object to their children being taught about other religions? Obviously they're being unfair, but to what extent do they have a right to control what their kids are taught? Is it reasonable for them to take their children out of 'religion' class? Or maths class, at that?

Whispered

I was educated in a convent school up until 6th class. I asked a teacher one day if we could be wrong about our religion and she kicked me out of her class! I was only about 8. I wasn't asking to be bad or anything, I just genuinely wondered as I was aware of "other religions" at the time. I remember being so upset and worried I would get into trouble when I got home :rolleyes:

Saying that, in secondary school, up until 3rd year we had "religion" class but it was actually very interesting and more based in culture than religion.