Is €380-400k ridiculous money for a 2-bed apartment in Dublin 18?

RedPandaDan · 12-01-2015 10:35am

The_Conductor wrote: »

And a timely article from yesterday's Irish Times- entitled- I bought a 450k apartments in Sandyford, I never thought I wouldn't be able to sell it......

From The Article wrote:

Justin got a job in Maynooth and moved back in 2006. He bought an apartment in Maynooth. If I’d had a crystal ball I’d have said, ‘Why don’t you rent in Maynooth instead?’, but I couldn’t have that conversation with him, because we weren’t going out that long, and it might have scared him off.

Any time I read something like this, I always think back to that scene in The Savage Eye where a young mans parents react with disgust and lament their failure as parents when he confesses that he is renting...

dlb_cycles · 12-01-2015 11:39am

that is ridiculous for a house not even.. ah

Michael D Not Higgins · 12-01-2015 11:46am

The_Conductor wrote: »

And a timely article from yesterday's Irish Times- entitled- I bought a 450k apartments in Sandyford, I never thought I wouldn't be able to sell it......

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/clara-malone-36-i-bought-a-two-bed-apartment-for-450-000-i-never-thought-i-wouldn-t-be-able-to-sell-it-1.2060530?page=1

Talk about unfortunate timing, they own two apartment bought in the mid 2000s. I'm surprised they're still afloat after two mortgages, two kids (with fertility treatments) and all on one salary.

I'm sure this is a regular occurance for a number of people of that generation. It goes to show the problem with the lending market at the time when a 26 year old in HR (maybe 30-odd grand a year?) can get a mortgage for 450k. Even with a 10% deposit, you're looking at around 12 times LTI.

NotCominBack · 12-01-2015 12:03pm

On a positive note she does have few years redundancy payment, and with a business degree & IS masters she shouldn't have too much trouble finding another job quickly if she wanted

I still don't understand why people like this just didn't drop off the keys to the bank and say, here ye go, Slan

12-01-2015 12:12pm

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

..........
I'm sure this is a regular occurance for a number of people of that generation. It goes to show the problem with the lending market at the time when a 26 year old in HR (maybe 30-odd grand a year?) can get a mortgage for 450k. Even with a 10% deposit, you're looking at around 12 times LTI.

I did similar on a smaller scale, bought a flat for less than half the Sandyford yokes (in Kildare) in 2005 as a 24 year old, was on €50K/annum and thought long and hard about it.

Lost me arse on it too, such is life.

HeidiHeidi · 12-01-2015 12:12pm

NotCominBack wrote: »

I still don't understand why people like this just didn't drop off the keys to the bank and say, here ye go, Slan

Because then instead of a huge loan and some collateral, you just wind up with a huge debt but no property. Handing back the keys doesn't absolve you of the mortgage in this country.

Sadly last post on boards by OP was four years ago, so we're unlikely to find out the end to this story - shame as I'd love to know what happened!

12-01-2015 12:15pm

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

.......... shame as I'd love to know what happened!

To be fair is they did buy I couldn't imagine them coming back to this thread, posts along the lines of "Did the OP heed the advice they were given at the time- and wait? I wonder....... " wouldn't really encourage them to

For everyone with advice like that there was countless other folks advising to buy, people made up their own mind and by in large will pay for the consequences.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 12-01-2015 12:18pm

TWO apartments? Why don't they sell one, realize the negative equity and thus reduce the mortgage payments on at least one of the properties?

HeidiHeidi · 12-01-2015 12:20pm

Alexander Early Rank wrote: »

TWO apartments? Why don't they sell one, realize the negative equity and thus reduce the mortgage payments on at least one of the properties?

Sometimes the bank won't let you sell if you're too deep in NE.

Eldarion · 12-01-2015 12:21pm

Augeo wrote: »

For everyone with advice like that there was countless other folks advising to buy, people made up their own mind and by in large will pay for the consequences.

Haha if only. Thousands of people in multi year mortgage arrears sitting pretty in houses that are well beyond their means aren't paying any consequences as far as I can see...

And my favorite of all, the folks living abroad taking in thousands in rental income every month and not servicing their mortgage in the slightest.

beauf · 12-01-2015 12:22pm

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

....It goes to show the problem with the lending market at the time when a 26 year old in HR (maybe 30-odd grand a year?) can get a mortgage for 450k. Even with a 10% deposit, you're looking at around 12 times LTI.

+1

I think it still exists too. Salaries have not increased to match the cost of housing, even after the crash and recovery. You really need to allow for a fall in salary and if there two people one of them not working for some of the time. Even then you might run into a situation where luck and circumstance go against you.

In which case the problem of not being able to hand the keys back is the real issue. It leaves the problem/responsibility with reckless lending with the borrower not the lender.

12-01-2015 12:23pm

Eldarion wrote: »

Haha if only. Thousands of people...............
And my favorite of all, the folks living abroad..............

No doubt but the majority are paying their way imo.

gaius c · 12-01-2015 12:27pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

And a timely article from yesterday's Irish Times- entitled- I bought a 450k apartments in Sandyford, I never thought I wouldn't be able to sell it......

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/clara-malone-36-i-bought-a-two-bed-apartment-for-450-000-i-never-thought-i-wouldn-t-be-able-to-sell-it-1.2060530?page=1

Quite a sad story really and a warning about the destructive power of groupthink.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 12-01-2015 12:44pm

Doesn't mention if they are on interest only either.

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Sometimes the bank won't let you sell if you're too deep in NE.

accensi0n · 12-01-2015 1:06pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

And a timely article from yesterday's Irish Times- entitled- I bought a 450k apartments in Sandyford, I never thought I wouldn't be able to sell it......

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/clara-malone-36-i-bought-a-two-bed-apartment-for-450-000-i-never-thought-i-wouldn-t-be-able-to-sell-it-1.2060530?page=1

Anyone else find that it read like an 8 year olds "My summer holiday" story? (Obviously with more of a depressive feeling though)

Michael D Not Higgins · 12-01-2015 1:12pm

accensi0n wrote: »

Anyone else find that it read like an 8 year olds "My summer holiday" story? (Obviously with more of a depressive feeling though)

It's probably the kind of thing that they want you to feel the 'everyman' quality of it, rather than a columnist's spin and verbosity.

draiochtanois · 12-01-2015 1:16pm

This post has been deleted.

lima · 12-01-2015 1:26pm

Makes me laugh a little because of all the smug people in 2006/7 gloating about being on the 'ladder' haha where are they now

12-01-2015 1:27pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well they would have been paying NPR tax or whatever it was on one of them anyway before that was abolished.

12-01-2015 1:38pm

lima wrote: »

Makes me laugh a little because of all the smug people in 2006/7 gloating about being on the 'ladder' haha where are they now

For every person that was as you describe there's two more who couldn't afford to get on the "ladder" back than and years on claim it was due to shrewdness, most of them couldn't afford to get on the ladder since either

MarkAnthony · 12-01-2015 1:43pm

There was an excellent article linked by Gaius C in the 2015 thread. Before everyone gloats/sheds a tear it's probably worth bearing in mind the OP probably has a more affordable mortgage than all the 'sensible people' and if he's carried on renting he'd had sunk c.100K into rent waiting for the bubble to pop.

While I'm all for ensuring we don't return to the bubble lets not lose the run of ourselves completely.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 12-01-2015 1:47pm

BillyoftheBeast wrote: »

Rent is dead money you are correct. You want money that is alive so you need to buy one of these apts.
2k rent a month, sorry 2k loan repayments a month, 3k management fees a year and then after 5 years you should be saving -70K over your sad renting friends.

People like this I have no sympathy for

lima · 12-01-2015 1:58pm

Augeo wrote: »

For every person that was as you describe there's two more who couldn't afford to get on the "ladder" back than and years on claim it was due to shrewdness, most of them couldn't afford to get on the ladder since either

True but there's also the people who like to blame the banks for giving them the loans they asked for :rolleyes:

Eric Cartman · 12-01-2015 2:07pm

no apartment in Ireland is ever worth anything over 250k in my book , and even thats pushing it.

Dublin city center, 2 bed 250k
Dublin inside m50 but outside city - 200k
Dublin outside m50 but on luas or dart - 175k
Apartments in kildare/wicklow/meath/louth - 100k max.

For over 250k id be expecting a 3 bed semi and for 400k a 4 bed detached.

Might just be me but i would consider those sensible pricing guidelines

karenalot · 12-01-2015 2:08pm

lima wrote: »

Makes me laugh a little because of all the smug people in 2006/7 gloating about being on the 'ladder' haha where are they now

It's not all doom and gloom for people who bought in 2006. I am one of them and because I am on a tracker I am actually financially better off than someone entering the market today.

I pay €800 a month mortgage. To rent my house or get a mortgage on the same place at todays interest rates would cost me €1200 a month. Granted interest rates will eventually head up but for now I am in better position. I think people who bought apartments have seen it much tougher of course.

MarkAnthony · 12-01-2015 2:18pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no apartment in Ireland is ever worth anything over 250k in my book , and even thats pushing it.

Dublin city center, 2 bed 250k
Dublin inside m50 but outside city - 200k
Dublin outside m50 but on luas or dart - 175k
Apartments in kildare/wicklow/meath/louth - 100k max.

For over 250k id be expecting a 3 bed semi and for 400k a 4 bed detached.

Might just be me but i would consider those sensible pricing guidelines

It's supply and demand though. If there is an apartment complex next to a high paying employer (like the OP) then paying 300K for a two bed isn't complete madness (risky though - what if the employers close/move). City centre is a better bet and 400K for D1 2 beds again isn't madness given the safety of rental demand there. Borrowing 400K at a potential 8% id of course madness but one has to compete with cash investors in that location.

My point is it's not as simple as putting a 250K ceiling on it. That said what is very sensible is putting a ceiling on your own affordability and working from there.

MarkAnthony · 12-01-2015 2:25pm

karenalot wrote: »

It's not all doom and gloom for people who bought in 2006. I am one of them and because I am on a tracker I am actually financially better off than someone entering the market today.

I pay €800 a month mortgage. To rent my house or get a mortgage on the same place at todays interest rates would cost me €1200 a month. Granted interest rates will eventually head up but for now I am in better position. I think people who bought apartments have seen it much tougher of course.

I'm in a similar situation bought a city centre (ish) one bed for mental, mental money - still in neg equity. That said I'm €550 per month repayments in an apartment that would rent out at c.1100 per month. Even taking into account the management fee I'm €450 per month better off. The clincher for me is the hassle of dealing with landlords and moving.

Fingers crossed that I don't jinx it by saying this but I'm about to close on a 3 bed semi, lower mortgage but much higher repayments. Apartment will be rented out and all in all should just about look after it self in relation to cost. Even assuming rents don't keep pace with interest rises if I have to sink a few quid into it I can balance this against my pension payments.

Not an ideal situation but I don't consider myself screwed either.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 12-01-2015 2:26pm

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It's supply and demand though. If there is an apartment complex next to a high paying employer (like the OP) then paying 300K for a two bed isn't complete madness (risky though - what if the employers close/move). City centre is a better bet and 400K for D1 2 beds again isn't madness given the safety of rental demand there. Borrowing 400K at a potential 8% id of course madness but one has to compete with cash investors in that location.

My point is it's not as simple as putting a 250K ceiling on it. That said what is very sensible is putting a ceiling on your own affordability and working from there.

Sorry I have to ask.

Can you clarify are you talking about prices in 2014 or in 2008 when this thread was first started and the question asked?

lima · 12-01-2015 2:27pm

karenalot wrote: »

It's not all doom and gloom for people who bought in 2006. I am one of them and because I am on a tracker I am actually financially better off than someone entering the market today.

I pay €800 a month mortgage. To rent my house or get a mortgage on the same place at todays interest rates would cost me €1200 a month. Granted interest rates will eventually head up but for now I am in better position. I think people who bought apartments have seen it much tougher of course.

Yeah the tracker situation is a life saver for a lot of people, the situation would be a lot different if they had never existed (probably would have pushed people over the edge into revolt)

In this example though, someone entering the market now could be better off buying that apt now as they would be buying it for say e250k with say e110k savings so would be around e600 for the mortgage, plus it is more likely that the property price would rise from e250k upwards compared to if it was worth e450k so would 'earn' a bit from capital gain

draiochtanois · 12-01-2015 2:30pm

This post has been deleted.

Is €380-400k ridiculous money for a 2-bed apartment in Dublin 18?

Comments