Swearing in in court

MrPudding

So, there you are, in court and you have to swear on the holy bible.... What do you do?

I would think it is not worth the hassle to tell them they are getting you to swear on something you don't believe in.... Thoughts?

MrP

Pompey Magnus

"Sorry Judge, you don't happen to have a copy of The Selfish Gene lying about, do you?"

MrPudding

Depeche_Mode wrote: »

"Sorry Judge, you don't happen to have a copy of The Selfish Gene lying about, do you?"

That thought did run through my mind, but in the end I thought it might not be a good idea. I just went ahead and did the normal swearing on the bible. I get the feeling that any other action might actually go against you...

MrP

redfacedbear

It happens from time to time - you just tell them you don't need the book and you make a solemn oath without swearing on the bible.

Mind you the one and only time I had to testify I was so bloody nervous about what lay ahead (the Judge was in a foul humour and everybody who represented 'the State' who had gone up before me had got a bollocking) that I took the book without even thinking.

Pompey Magnus

No doubt you didn't tell a word of truth because without having a belief in the Bible there to keep you in check you have no reason to be honest.

I probably wouldn't bother pointing out I don't believe in it. It isn't worth the hassel and I would be no more likely to tell the truth with my hand on a copy of the Irish Constitution, the Bible or the latest edition of Playboy.

Zombrex

MrPudding wrote: »

So, there you are, in court and you have to swear on the holy bible.... What do you do?

I would refuse to, on principle.

I would consider a oath in court to be a serious business, and swearing under the Bible would essentually be lying

I would be happy to simply make an oath to tell the truth, or if I have to swear under something I would ask for a copy of the Constitution.

Dave!

Make an affirmation


You will stand in the witness box and the court registrar will hand you a Bible, which you must hold. The registrar will then ask you to repeat the following oath after him/her, "I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

If you wish to make the affirmation (suitable for those who are not Christians), then you must tell the registrar. The words of the affirmation are "I, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that the evidence that I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/witnesses/the_procedure_for_being_a_witness

MrPudding

Wicknight wrote: »

I would refuse to, on principle.

I would consider a oath in court to be a serious business, and swearing under the Bible would essentually be lying

I would be happy to simply make an oath to tell the truth, or if I have to swear under something I would ask for a copy of the Constitution.

I did want to refuse on principle, but I cannot help but think it would be "taken into account" when they are thinking about your story and the verasity of it. I am not sure the irish judical system is quite ready for people that do not believe in god and are quite happy to let people know.

MrP

deman

If you swear on the bible and don't belief in it?

That would be an act if hypocracy, wouldn't it?

MrPudding

DaveMcG wrote: »

Make an affirmation


You will stand in the witness box and the court registrar will hand you a Bible, which you must hold. The registrar will then ask you to repeat the following oath after him/her, "I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

If you wish to make the affirmation (suitable for those who are not Christians), then you must tell the registrar. The words of the affirmation are "I, do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that the evidence that I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/witnesses/the_procedure_for_being_a_witness

That is interesting, but I can't help thinking you would be seen as a godless liar!

MrP

bluefinger

MrPudding wrote: »

That is interesting, but I can't help thinking you would be seen as a godless liar!

MrP

Just have to say i'm actually experiencing this very dilemmna. Am giving evidence in court next week and would like to do the whole affirmation thing. However, i can't help feeling that people would reject my testimony as a result.

Zombrex

MrPudding wrote: »

That is interesting, but I can't help thinking you would be seen as a godless liar!

MrP

So its better to actually be a godless liar?

bluefinger

:d

MrPudding

Wicknight wrote: »

So its better to actually be a godless liar?

Exactly.

MrP

Dave!

Ive not been in the situation... But I imagine it's common enough. I wouldn't dwell on it tbh. Atheists aren't detested here as in America.

legspin

Just say to your lawyer beforehand you wish to affirm rather than swear. It's not major.

Dades

Old thread here if anyone's interested.
Just fyi.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote: »

I would refuse to, on principle.

I would consider a oath in court to be a serious business, and swearing under the Bible would essentually be lying

I would be happy to simply make an oath to tell the truth, or if I have to swear under something I would ask for a copy of the Constitution.

Sounds about right

Hivemind187

Wicknight wrote: »

I would be happy to simply make an oath to tell the truth, or if I have to swear under something I would ask for a copy of the Constitution.

Problem is there are parts of the constitution I dont agree with ... wouldnt that indicate that I am being dishonest if I were to swear on it?

I once had to take the stand in a customdy battle and I admit that I mtook the oath on the bible. Partly because I didnt know there was an option and partly because I didnt want to prejudice the judge to the testimony I would give.

MrJoeSoap

MrPudding wrote: »

That thought did run through my mind, but in the end I thought it might not be a good idea. I just went ahead and did the normal swearing on the bible. I get the feeling that any other action might actually go against you...

MrP

Was in there this week and did the exact same. The pressure of standing there in front of a couple of hundred people will do that to you.

deman wrote: »

If you swear on the bible and don't belief in it?

That would be an act if hypocracy, wouldn't it?

Didn't feel too hypocritical to me. You try standing there and doing it...

Zombrex

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Problem is there are parts of the constitution I dont agree with ... wouldnt that indicate that I am being dishonest if I were to swear on it?

Well it depends on what you mean by "disagree with" ... if you don't respect the Constitution as the symbol of Irish law then you probably wouldn't swear on it. And if you don't respect Irish law to begin with you probably wouldn't, on principle, swear to the court at all.

Hivemind187

Wicknight wrote: »

Well it depends on what you mean by "disagree with" ... if you don't respect the Constitution as the symbol of Irish law then you probably wouldn't swear on it. And if you don't respect Irish law to begin with you probably wouldn't, on principle, swear to the court at all.

Fair point.

Soul Winner

Wicknight wrote: »

or if I have to swear under something I would ask for a copy of the Constitution.

I think you Wicknight will change your mind even on that when you read the preamble of the constitutution which reads as follows:

Preamble of the Irish Constitution (full text) from Wikipedia

"In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
We, the people of Éire,
Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution."

Wikipedia's definition of what a preamble is:

"The preamble is an introductory statement or preliminary explanation as to the purpose of the document and the principles behind its philosophy. The term is particularly applied to the opening paragraph(s) of a statute, which recite historical facts which may be pertinent to the issue being discussed. It is often confused with the long title or the enacting formula of a law."

Zillah

I suspect perhaps he was referring to the laws contained within rather than the fairly meaningless fluff text.

Altough that sort of gibberish in our constitution does irritate me greatly.

Zombrex

Soul Winner wrote: »

I think you Wicknight will change your mind even on that when you read the preamble of the constitutution which reads as follows:

Well I have actually read the Constitution , and as Zillah points out it is more what the Constitution represents (the foundation of all Irish law) than the actual wording in it. I don't respect the wording of the preamble but I respect the Constitution itself

Dades

Wicknight wrote: »

I don't respect the wording of the preamble but I respect the Constitution itself

I don't respect the wording of the preamble but I respect it's right to have one.

Sangre

that preamble and the other bits of religious fluff in the Constitution were the foundation for some pretty radical developments in irish law i.e., our unenumerated rights.

Soul Winner

Sangre wrote: »

that preamble and the other bits of religious fluff in the Constitution were the foundation for some pretty radical developments in irish law i.e., our unenumerated rights.

It is an unchangeable fact that for the most part the founders of our country were men and women of faith in a supernatural God. Who in many cases paid with their own lives to bring to pass a system whereby these rights would be upheld. You can't get away from that fact ever. Hence the preamble of our constitution. It might be religious fluff and gibberish to some but to the ones who matter it was the very foundation upon which they gave their lives to where we now have the right to call it religious fluff and gibberish if we want without been burned at the stake for it.

Silverfox

Yup, it's unfortunately true that alot of our unenumerated rights are said to some from the, "Christian and democratic nature of the State". and even though the case that quote was taken from was in the 60s and a completely different religious climate, it still bugs me. Rights come from being human, not from being Christian.

Sangre

Soul Winner wrote: »

It is an unchangeable fact that for the most part the founders of our country were men and women of faith in a supernatural God. Who in many cases paid with their own lives to bring to pass a system whereby these rights would be upheld. You can't get away from that fact ever. Hence the preamble of our constitution. It might be religious fluff and gibberish to some but to the ones who matter it was the very foundation upon which they gave their lives to where we now have the right to call it religious fluff and gibberish if we want without been burned at the stake for it.

Legally speaking its still fluff. Its merely a reflection of our weak constitution that it was required to give me some of their most basic rights.

Bottle_of_Smoke

if i didnt care about the person who was affected by any evidence I may give I'd just say "that book means nothing to me, I don't mind holding it because it means nothing to me however"

If I was the accused I'd definitely swear on it, don't trust any jury to be open minded enough to trust an athiest.