Secret Unfeminist Thoughts

Jrad

Jeasus, Id hate to be fat and ugly! Whos with me??

Ginny

narco wrote: »

i cannot actually believe some of the comments in here about weight and appearance... i got so angry reading some of them... make me feel like ****, tbh.

Same here,the issues with weight are worse then any I've heard from blokes and will be colouring any comments I see from certain posters from now on.
Looking over the posters horrified about (god forbid) getting overweight, I would bet that most of them are in their early 20s, as you get older you realise a clothes label is not the most important thing. Although if you have an attitude about like that about what you consider "fat" it will just show you up for the ugly person you are inside.

Lux23

I like a man to be chivalrous but I don't see that as anti feminist, there is nothing offensive about a man holding a door for you or giving you their seat on the bus.

I would love to stay at home after I have children but not because I think mothers should be at home but because I am bone idle!!

I find it depressing that there are no really cool female movie stars like there are men, the only one who springs to mind is Uma Thurman.

Other than that I don't think men are better than women in any way, think we all have an equal amount of faults and advantages and it all balances out.

Dudess

GinnyJo wrote: »

Same here,the issues with weight are worse then any I've heard from blokes and will be colouring any comments I see from certain posters from now on.

Women ARE worse than blokes when it comes to putting pressure on other females to be thin.
Look, you can take us saying we wouldn't like to be fat as looking down on overweight people all you want (which it isn't - I think people who are nasty to overweight people purely on the basis of their size are despicable) but the fact is, we consider it unattractive and it is unhealthy and we wouldn't like to experience that ourselves. Put it this way, I was scrawny when I was 18 - I was miserable. Then I was overweight when I was 24 - I was also miserable.

Looking over the posters horrified about (god forbid) getting overweight, I would bet that most of them are in their early 20s, as you get older you realise a clothes label is not the most important thing.

I'm nearly 30, but I've never given a flying fuk about clothes labels. Anyway, what the hell has that got to do with body size?

Although if you have an attitude about like that about what you consider "fat" it will just show you up for the ugly person you are inside.

That's utter nonsense. You're completely missing the point.

Lux23 wrote: »

I find it depressing that there are no really cool female movie stars like there are men, the only one who springs to mind is Uma Thurman.

That ain't anti-feminist - that's wishing female movie stars would be more feminist instead of bints. In fairness, Christina Ricci is also pretty cool.

PrettyInPunk wrote: »

i like wearing makeup getting dressed

If someone is checking me out in a non sleazy way it makes me feel good

Nothing at all anti-feminist about either - in fact I think both are quite empowering.

I also think in some jobs men still do better then women

And vice versa.

jellie

I like my men to be manly - stronger than me (wouldnt be hard) & able to protect me. Now im well able to stand up for myself, & its not like im getting myself into dodgy situations where i need a bodyguard, but at the same time i like that my bf is well capable of looking after me if it was required.

I'll also admit that sometimes i like him getting jealous. i dont go trying to make him jealous or anything, & ill tell him hes being stupid if he does (which he is cause he never has anything to be jealous of or worry about), but some little part of me feels loved if he starts getting jealous of some guy for whatever reason.

Reku

cuckoo wrote: »

i don't even see the bill as he pays it when i'm in the ladies

My ex threatened physical harm when I did that.:(
She hated me paying for things but then I earned more and had fewer expenses so it made sense that I'd pay more often than her.

themadchef wrote: »

Do i have unfemenistic thoughts? When orange looking women try to struggle down a busy street in town in humungus high heels wearing make up that could have easily been applied with a trowel wearing in some cases jeans that may need surgical removal... i may smile a little.

Going around done up like that is not feminism, it's just stupidity IMO, so I wouldn't consider laughing at them unfeminist. In fact I thought feminists were anti-high-heels anyway due to the fact that they only exist to make the legs more appealing to males and they cause a number of health issues due to the strain on the lower legs and how they upset your body's centre of gravity leading to spinal problems.



And with the debate on physical build and attractiveness I'm not sure that's exactly anti-feminist either since that's just human, we all want to optimise our chances at pairing up with the best possible specimen of the opposite gender and the physical attractiveness and health will come into this (in other words most people don't want to be unhealthily fat) when evaluating one another. Feminism can argue that that's not right all people want but fact is women make the same judgements against males as males make against women in this regard as the end goal is the healthiest possible offspring, and so give them the highest possible chance of successfully producing offspring of similar/better mating potential. Continuation of the genetic line.

Lux23

cuckoo wrote: »

i don't even see the bill as he pays it when i'm in the ladies, .

I would love to have a boyfriend who did that even once, most of the ones I have had wouldn't ask me to dinner. I don't care how unfeminist I sound here.

G86

This thread might'nt have been a great idea, I think a few people are getting a bit hot headed. I'm just going to give my opinion on two of the topics brought up:

With regards to the whole weight issue..

If someone is size 18+ and happy then fair enough, who are we to judge. However I have no problem in saying that I would not be happy that size and it can have health implications.

If someone is size 18+ and is not happy, and its not due to health problems, then I have no sympathy for them. People are getting far too lazy and a good workout a few times a week would sort it out.

And about the not wanting kids, I understand how other people don't understand it. But I hate people who take a negative view of it and view it as being selfish etc. I'm great with kids, I raised my younger sister, but I just don't want any of my own. That doesn't make me any less of a person.

Weight is such an emotive issue for so many people. We could probably discuss politics and religion with less umbrage being taken.

For what it's worth, I also would not like to be fat. I'm not skinny, just right for my height. I'm also involved in martial arts and I know that excess weight would make me unwieldy in that regard.

So I work bloody hard to ensure I don't pile on weight. I love my food so I set the alarm for 6.30am and get my ass to the gym because I'm sure not going to skip the doughnut at lunchtime.

However, my definition of 'fat' could be a million miles away from someone else's. I abhor the pressure put on new mothers to drop baby weight quickly.

EamonnKeane

cuckoo wrote: »

I wish that all women could have a good body image, and that choices women make regarding children and their careers would be supported and respected. I wish that a woman's body would not be considered such public property that it offends/arouses/digusts/pleases without her say in the matter.

i wish for a chocolate castle

Peared

Isnt it mad that out of all the possible things there are to discuss in the realm of secret thoughts this has turned into a debate about weight?

It would be great if some people could actually read the posts properly before reacting. I for one specifically did not say I thought less of anybody of any shape or size or child status. I gave my opinion on those subjects whilst acknowledging that essentially, looks dont matter. Maybe if I was very secure in myself I wouldnt have these thoughts, who knows? But Im not going to feel wrong for expressing an honest opinion that, if read properly, did not put anybody down.

And Ive said it before but I'll say it again, why is it ok to say "id hate to be too skinny, its disgusting"

For the poster who commented on age, Im not in my early 20s.

Lux23

Peared wrote: »

And Ive said it before but I'll say it again, why is it ok to say "id hate to be too skinny, its disgusting"

Because there are f**k all people who are extremely skinny so there are less of them to get outraged. Very few people actually want to be fat so I don't see any problem with your statement. Its just those of us who are overweight (most of us) are of course sensitive about it so we just attack anyone who would even dare to suggest we couldn't be happy being a lardass.:)

Pyjamarama

Ok so I don't see how saying "I'd prefer not to be overweight" is anti-feminist, restricting someones identity to their body is a different story. If you are obese and make no attempt to do anything about it you are endangering your health. Are you sympathetic if a heavy smoker gets lung cancer? No because they should have stopped smoking! What about an alcoholic suffering liver failure? Why this big taboo, PCness about obesity?

As for my own 'anti-feminist' tendencies I don't see them as anti-feminist because I think the popular concept of feminist is totally skewed these days. Why is enjoying a hug and some support from my boyfriend anti-feminist when I give the same to him in return? If I'm feeling down I enjoy getting looked after. This doesn't make me weak or not a feminist in my values and beliefs.

Saying you want to look after your kids and not go straight back to work also doesn't make you anti-feminist. Motherhood and feminism aren't mutually esclusive!

watna

Separate from the weight thing which is a whole drama in itself, I find the term "ugly" quite strange.

In my head when I describe someone as ugly (which I've only done once) it is because of their personality. The girl in question was quite attractive but was an extrememly nasty, manipulative and friendless person. I got on the wrong side of her one day for something stupid and she launched an online attack on me going on to everyon'e bebo pages (back in the bebo days) calling me an ugly slapper. Now, I had done nothing wrong and she had got all vitriolic and described me as ugly... meaning my appearance. Now, I'm not the most attractive person in the world but ugly? Who was the ugly one there I wonder? After that happened one of our mutual friends wrote her a letter (he's a guy.. pretty childish anyway) saying he didn't want anything to do with her, as she treated people very badly.

I say ugly is more of a personality trait then appearance. I don't think anyone can be "ugly". How can you judge that on what they look like? It should be like in the film Shallow Hal when he sees people's inner beauty on the outside.!I know Dudess clarified that she meant disfigured but I do find the use of the word ugly very strange.

smurfbaby

Interesting thread. Ok here are mine

-I also like feeling protected by my boyfriend, even though I am well capable of looking after myself! When we go to cross the road we puts his arm up on front of me in case I walk out! Should be irritating but is actually kinda sweet

-I like when men hold doors open for me, and always smile and say thanks. Maybe it's more of a manners thing than a chivalry thing? Also like when a seat comes free on the train and a man turns to offer it to me before sitting. I always say I'm fine, but it's a welcome change from almost being flattened by a grown man charging past me to get a seat (Believe me it happens daily!)

-Even though I'm really into my career, if I have kids I would like to stay at home for their early years. Don't know how practical that would be in reality though, I'm sure if it was that financially viable there would be a lot more stay at home mums!

-I know the weight issue has been a very touchy subject on this thread, so I'd like to point out that I know it's absolutely none of my business what weight/size someone is, or how they live their life, nor would I judge someone on this. But what annoys me is women constantly cheering on women who are actually clinically obese by calling them 'curvy', and crowing about how only bigger women are 'real women' and slim women are stick insects whom men aren't attracted to.

Interesting the way feminism has almost turned into a dirty word, with women starting discussions by saying 'Now I'm not a feminist or anything, but...'

WindSock

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Saying you want to look after your kids and not go straight back to work also doesn't make you anti-feminist. Motherhood and feminism aren't mutually esclusive!

Feminists fought for a long time to have the luxury of choice on this issue

And I don't know about you Watna, perhaps I am shallow, but if this guy asked me out I wouldn't stick around to see his ''great personality'

Dudess

Women are obsessed with weight - I'll keep saying it. It's women who put pressure on other women to be thin. I mean there's a thread on this very forum simply asking "what size are you?" :rolleyes:

SheRa

Watna I cant believe that girl :eek::eek: having met you, you are beautiful honey:).

Women can be such b1tches

watna

SheRa wrote: »

Watna I cant believe that girl :eek::eek: having met you, you are beautiful honey:).

Women can be such b1tches

Thanks!

Windsock... I was eating chocolate when i saw that and almost choked. He can be the exception to my rule!

Jeapy

I love to cook and dress in sexy underwear for my man! Love to be spoiled with presents too!

WindSock

Hehe. He is actually on my bebo as my celebrity lookalikes.

Babette08

Ah I don’t think the OP intended this to be such a provocative debate. IMO the matters of weight and ugliness being viewed negatively shouldn’t be classed as anti feminist in that they’re not solely a female issue.

Personally I wouldn’t like to be overweight in the same way I wouldn’t want to be underweight – health is the issue here, don’t like to feel sluggish or unenergetic as I’d imagine an overweight or underweight person to be. That is a personal preference – everyone is different

Everything is relative I might add. If you hang around with models you're gonna feel pretty ugly.


I think feminism is about CHOICE...not being frowned upon/judged for choices made any more so than men are. And we all know us girls get the raw end of the stick - for the most part by eachother!!


On a lighter note – I think women can actually be very funny…not necessarily to the extent that men are…but I think this is more due to the fact that funny is not something women really aspire to be. We have all met tonnes of girls who would have you splitting your sides with day-to-day observations. I think the lack of female comedians is more to do with women not having the confidence or urge to pursue it as a career. Joan Rivers is a genius - show me anyone who doesn’t wet themselves watching her

I like a guy to be chivalrous. This again is a personal preference. I think mutual respect for what the other likes is the key.

If I was being secretly anti-feminist - I suppose it would be sometimes, after a really crap day in work, wishing to be a lady of leisure completely supported by the guy of my dreams. Who hasn’t dreamt of this ladies?? My feminist instinct soon kicks in though and I realise I'd miss my independence

WindSock

Women aren't comediennes because do you ever notice that most Male ones aren't physically attractive? They need to be funny to please us

the dee

I'm not going to get into the weight / ugliness debate.

I'd love to stay at home if/when I have kids, for a few years anyway. That's not being anti-feminist, it's the choice I'd make. I do want to get married and have kids at some point (I've been laughed at by other women for saying that, even though I'd be far more feminist in my thinking than they are)

Sometimes I'd love a rich handsome man to buy me everything I've ever dreamed of. That'd be cool.

I think women and their opinions are belittled by the media and by society. Sometimes I think less of what someone on boards says when I know they're female. I wish I didn't think like that.

LittleGoblin

I really don't get this thread.

Secret unfeminist thoughts?

Feminism is

Advocacy of the rights of women based on the theory of equality of the sexes. (from the Oxford English Dictionary)

So does this mean "unfeminist thoughts" are those which suggest that men and women are not equal?

Where does the debate regarding weight or looks come into this? Are they in any way related to the equality of the sexes?

Peared

Littlegoblin I was using the word feminist in a very general way. Everybody has their own understanding of the word.

Note to self: in future start threads with inane comments that nobody could possibly disagree with as debate seems to equal attack around here.

JC 2K3

I don't think I've read one comment in this thread that could be classified as "unfeminist", and generally none that couldn't be opinions held by persons of either gender.

Wibbs

Recent article I read about humour and a scientist found that a lot of it was down to testosterone level. The higher it was the funnier the person was found to be. Younger men tend to have a broader range of humour than older men and higher in general than women. Slapstick and dangerous humor showed the highest diff between the genders. Dirty sanchez, jackass etc would appeal to far more men than women. The theory being that women have evolved to see humour as an advantage in fathers for their children and men compete with each other to be funny too. Seems sensible.

The fat/thin debate is as other pointed out much more between women than how men may perceive it. Sure, you'll get the usual teenage geek who has only seen a woman naked between the pages of a magazine or downloaded from his PC moaning about "fat chicks". Most men aren't that bothered within a certain quite wide range even if they say differently around their mates. Some of my friends have ended up with women that would be considered at the hefty end and they always wittered on about "fat chicks". That's what they actually like(maybe karma too..:D).

I would say the biggest barrier to feminism is a certain section of women themselves. IMHO women are far more socially competitive than men are. This translates into their work arena too. I know too many highly accomplished intelligent women that act totally differently around women when compared to how they act around men. Men do it too, but are far more obvious and they don't do it as much. They are far more judgemental about other women's looks and weight than men are about women. They are certainly much more judgemental about such things than men are with each other.

Decades of feminism later and the whole industry surrounding how women look seems to be worse now and driven as much by women and their insecurities. insecurities that are sadly bolstered more by other women not men.

Dudess

Spot on as always Wibbs. Excellent post.

swordsgal27

how dare any of you say skinny is disgusting , ive starved myself for years to get to a size 0 and regardless of my protrieving rib cage, and no arse tits or heat in my body ,you ALL want a piece of this dont ya ! jealous cows

right theres the one weve all been dying to see :D:D


moving on swiftly ...
i think all women like the whole door opening , after you dear ,let me get that for you darling things but can i just say
IT DOESNT LAST so lap it up girls ,
we will rule the world one day ,so be afraid boys be very afriad