Will Keegan start next season as barcodes manager?

Sizzler

Crazy decision for him to go back but the joke got even worse this week when it came out that Wise was going to Newcastle only for King Kev to say he knew bugger all about it....then amazingly he's quoted in all of todays papers saying he DID know about it and its all great :rolleyes:

A 0-0 at home to Bolton and 2 hammerings against Arsenal, no tangible improvement visible yet. Looks very much like no signings either till the summer, how much worse can it get? With trips away to Villa and Anfield looming, you just wonder :eek:

LuckyLloyd

In all fairness, a home tie against Bolton and two trips away to the best team in the land is hardly an ideal way to start. The results received from those fixtures are entirely in line with reasonable expectations.

It will take a while before he has time to inflict his ideas upon the players, and it is really unfair to make any comment until he has been in charge for 15 fixtures at least. Additionally, these aren't his players and every manager should be allowed to bring in their own signings and shape the playing staff. As such, it would be ridiculous if he was let go before August and the start of next season.

To be honest, he should have a free pass until the end of next season before any proper assessment of his managerial performance is made. The impatience of fans amazes me at times. The fact that Allardyce was let go after less than 30 games is lol. Squad building and tactical development requires time. And upheavals in management every 18 months on average is a sure way to be unsuccessful.

Sherifu

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In all fairness, a home tie against Bolton and two trips away to the best team in the land is hardly an ideal way to start. The results received from those fixtures are entirely in line with reasonable expectations.

Agreed, hardly an ideal start, especially the state the team were in when he arrived.

Chardee MacDennis

will he get through the next month is a better question - tough set of fixtures coming up.

~Rebel~

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Additionally, these aren't his players and every manager should be allowed to bring in their own signings and shape the playing staff. As such, it would be ridiculous if he was let go before August and the start of next season.

This is a point that has always proven to be how things are, but for me has never added up. Surely, if one man gets the sack for not being able to do something with those players, the solution is to bring in a guy who CAN do something with those players. If a whole new team is gonna be brought in, whats the point?

IMO when new managers are being interviewed/offered the job, they should at least have to say what they plan to do with the current players, how they think these players could be better utilised. Selling everyone only justifies that they weren't the right players, and that its not the previous managers total fault. It means you end up only being judged on your buying skills. In some cases this is all well and good, as if you bring in the wrong players, you're ****ed, but then there are cases where the manager has proven his ability to mould a decent team elsewhere. Wouldn't it maybe be better to give that person more time rather then starting from scratch again?

Sam Alardyce is a bit of an example here. Proved he could make a team from scratch that over time was pushing for a champions league spot until near the end of the season. Though often using the big strong long ball tactic (cheapest), in his earlier Bolton teams he did also use bit of flair and played really nice football at times with the likes of Okocha and Djorkaeff. Also turned around the likes of Anelka and Diouf. But he gets fired very very early, and now Keegan will basically have an almost free pass till the summer on the grounds of "he doesn't have his players in there". Managers are meant to manage..

phew, that ones been building in the system for a while!

Wreck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It will take a while before he has time to inflict his ideas upon the players, and it is really unfair to make any comment until he has been in charge for 15 fixtures at least. Additionally, these aren't his players and every manager should be allowed to bring in their own signings and shape the playing staff. As such, it would be ridiculous if he was let go before August and the start of next season.

To be honest, he should have a free pass until the end of next season before any proper assessment of his managerial performance is made. The impatience of fans amazes me at times. The fact that Allardyce was let go after less than 30 games is lol. Squad building and tactical development requires time. And upheavals in management every 18 months on average is a sure way to be unsuccessful.

I have a suspicion that Keegan won't be at Newcastle at the end of the season, and may possibly be gone by the end of next month. I don't think he'll be sacked, I think he'll walk. Four points from the next 5 games is the most I can see them getting, and the pressure will mount.

Completely agree about the sacking of Allardyce, a guy who should have been given time to the develop the club.

LuckyLloyd

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This is a point that has always proven to be how things are, but for me has never added up. Surely, if one man gets the sack for not being able to do something with those players, the solution is to bring in a guy who CAN do something with those players. If a whole new team is gonna be brought in, whats the point?

IMO when new managers are being interviewed/offered the job, they should at least have to say what they plan to do with the current players, how they think these players could be better utilised. Selling everyone only justifies that they weren't the right players, and that its not the previous managers total fault. It means you end up only being judged on your buying skills. In some cases this is all well and good, as if you bring in the wrong players, you're ****ed, but then there are cases where the manager has proven his ability to mould a decent team elsewhere. Wouldn't it maybe be better to give that person more time rather then starting from scratch again?

Sam Alardyce is a bit of an example here. Proved he could make a team from scratch that over time was pushing for a champions league spot until near the end of the season. Though often using the big strong long ball tactic (cheapest), in his earlier Bolton teams he did also use bit of flair and played really nice football at times with the likes of Okocha and Djorkaeff. Also turned around the likes of Anelka and Diouf. But he gets fired very very early, and now Keegan will basically have an almost free pass till the summer on the grounds of "he doesn't have his players in there". Managers are meant to manage..

phew, that ones been building in the system for a while!

Well, I do agree with you on a general level. I think though that in this case Newcastle have sacked a manager known for a very direct and physical approach; and replaced him with a manager known for playing a very exciting and expansive attacking style. Souness and Roeder also had tactical approaches that are very different to Keegan. Therefore, in this specific case, it is logical that the squad built over the past four years will not have all of the qualities Keegan would prefer. Furthermore, part of the motivation for the change seems to be to change the playing culture at the club and give the fans a brand of football they can accept. For me, that kind of change requires a foundational review of the playing staff.

So yes, you would be right in most cases. But I do think that Keegan needs a shot at the transfer market if he is to have a chance of achieving what is required.

And that is why I feel he must get time here. If Allardyce was sacked on the basis that the club wants a very specific, but very different direction, then there must be ab acceptance that it is a long - term project. If the problem was with improving short - term results and seeing a significant upsurge in performances by the end of this season then the sensible thing would have been to give the incumbant a longer period in charge.

You can't have both. You can't expect to take on sweeping revolution to bring things back to the 4 - 3 days while also displaying top four form from the off. Doesn't work like that.

Nice post though.

Necronomicon

Ashley seems to crave reverence from the fans, so it's probably up to them.

I think he most definitely will because of his status, but you've got to look at it from the other point of view; rather than be sacked, could he walk? There's a lot of talk about how Wise's role might affect him. Now I'm not one to take paper-talk as gospel, but there is a bit of a history in recent years of conflict when a 'director of football' is brought in. Hard to call the whole thing.

gucci

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

it is really unfair to make any comment until he has been in charge for 15 fixtures at least. .

yeah but its ok to sack him after 23 games :D (not a dig at you llyod!) newcastle have showed they will probably do whichever is the least intelligent, whether that means sack keegan or keep him on, then who knows this early.
in my mind sacking big sam and replacing him with keegan was one of the stupidest decisions iv ever witnessed in football. how mike ashley is a millionaire with decision making like that gives me great hope for my own fortunes in the future!

LuckyLloyd

gucci wrote: »

yeah but its ok to sack him after 23 games :D (not a dig at you llyod!) newcastle have showed they will probably do whichever is the least intelligent, whether that means sack keegan or keep him on, then who knows this early.
in my mind sacking big sam and replacing him with keegan was one of the stupidest decisions iv ever witnessed in football. how mike ashley is a millionaire with decision making like that gives me great hope for my own fortunes in the future!

Well yeah, sacking any manager that quick seems silly from a footballing perspective. Unless there is a player strike; or you are more than 6 points adrift in the relagation zone - getting rid of the manager less than 30 games in is pure silliness.

But from a short term business perspective this decision is inspired. Ashley has given the fans what they wanted. Now, the problem is that the fans probably don't know what they wish for - but this should produce an upsurge in attendances; goodwill; merchandising etc, etc.

The footballing public are idiots, and keeping the fans happy isn't neccesarily the best route to achieving success on the field. But when they're happy they spend money.

~Rebel~

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, I do agree with you on a general level. I think though that in this case Newcastle have sacked a manager known for a very direct and physical approach; and replaced him with a manager known for playing a very exciting and expansive attacking style.

---
So yes, you would be right in most cases. But I do think that Keegan needs a shot at the transfer market if he is to have a chance of achieving what is required.

I get your point alright but I think his results from this year, regardless of him not having bought the players, need to take into account that he wants to play attacking football, and has the likes of Martins, Owen, Viduka, N'Zogbia, Milner and Emre. All great attacking players who a decent attack minded manager should be able to cause havoc with. Goals are needed soon and in numbers to justify his appointment imo.

Sizzler

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This is a point that has always proven to be how things are, but for me has never added up. Surely, if one man gets the sack for not being able to do something with those players, the solution is to bring in a guy who CAN do something with those players. If a whole new team is gonna be brought in, whats the point?

IMO when new managers are being interviewed/offered the job, they should at least have to say what they plan to do with the current players, how they think these players could be better utilised. Selling everyone only justifies that they weren't the right players, and that its not the previous managers total fault. It means you end up only being judged on your buying skills. In some cases this is all well and good, as if you bring in the wrong players, you're ****ed, but then there are cases where the manager has proven his ability to mould a decent team elsewhere. Wouldn't it maybe be better to give that person more time rather then starting from scratch again?

Sam Alardyce is a bit of an example here. Proved he could make a team from scratch that over time was pushing for a champions league spot until near the end of the season. Though often using the big strong long ball tactic (cheapest), in his earlier Bolton teams he did also use bit of flair and played really nice football at times with the likes of Okocha and Djorkaeff. Also turned around the likes of Anelka and Diouf. But he gets fired very very early, and now Keegan will basically have an almost free pass till the summer on the grounds of "he doesn't have his players in there". Managers are meant to manage..

phew, that ones been building in the system for a while!

Excellent post and BANG on the money.

PHB

This is the question though, Keegan is remembered for his great team, not his utterly **** teams, like the ones he put together at City. They were attacking, but didn't exactly set the world on fire.

If they don't get something against Boro next weekend, I think they might not pick up anything for the next five games. The way they are playing it'd be surprising if they did pick something up against Boro. If they lose this weekend, they are in the relegation fight, there's no doubt about that.

Helix

i said the day he took over that i wouldnt be surprised if he was the next manager to go

i still stand by that

~Rebel~

Helix wrote: »

i said the day he took over that i wouldnt be surprised if he was the next manager to go

i still stand by that

Im tempted to put a bet on him being sacked in August next season. That or first sacking for next season.

raheny red

Sizzler wrote: »

Will Keegan start next season as barcodes manager?

Well once he gets it back to €3 a drink all night long I'll be a happy man :cool:

Sizzler

raheny red wrote: »

Well once he gets it back to €3 a drink all night long I'll be a happy man :cool:

LOL

Interesting stats on the messiah's return

http://www.setantasports.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/01/30/Opta-Investigate-Keegan-impact/

Melion

He wont make it til the end of this season. Wise will be in charge before the last game

Sizzler

Melion wrote: »

He wont make it til the end of this season. Wise will be in charge before the last game

Get the money down