Why pay VAT and VRT on safety features in new cars.

WHITE_P

Why pay VAT and VRT on safety features in new cars.

If the Government and RSA were serious about road safety, aside from providing better driver training / testing, why don't they make safety features and hands free car kits etc. VAT and VRT exempt.

All stick and No Carrot.:mad:

beerbaron

Why Indeed ? info@transport.ie

RobAMerc

how very true

airbags - abs - esp etc are all charged vrt and vat, why ?

because this government couldn't give a rats ass about your safety - they want to extract as much dosh covertly as possible, and blame you for everything thats wrong with the country.

road deaths are caused by speed therefore caused by you therefore you should pay speed tax via a fine system

boll8x the lot of it

Run_to_da_hills

Same goes for motorcycle helmets in Ireland, because of the luxury rate of VAT on motorcycle helmets in this country young bikers that cannot afford a decent lid end up going to Aldi & Lidl and buying cheap rubbish.

MrPudding

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Same goes for motorcycle helmets in Ireland, because of the luxury rate of VAT on motorcycle helmets in this country young bikers that cannot afford a decent lid end up going to Aldi & Lidl and buying cheap rubbish.

Yet another indication that the government really does not care about road safety. They gather revenue from safety features that could save lives and reduce injuries, the result? The good old Irish poverty spec. Things like ASC and additional airbags, which are standard in even the cheap models of cars in the uk, are only available as optional extras or much higher specced models. And don’t start me on speed cameras…..

MrP

flanzer

Sure didn't Mary harney only yesterday announce that she'll be reducing the VAT on condoms.......Blame it all on the catholic church I say!

Seth Brundle

They charge it because they know that people are willing to pay it!

E92

In fairness pretty much everything has front and side airbags at this stage. Almost every non convertible car has cutain airbags too once you move out of the Fiesta size category.

ABS has been mandatory for just over 3 years at this stage.

And an ever increasing number have ESP at this stage(all BMW, Merc, most Fords now that the Mk3 Focus will have ESP as standard, the Avensis now has ESP as standard as well etc) though I agree that ESP and traction control should be exempt from VRT.

MrPudding

E92 wrote: »

I
And an ever increasing number have ESP at this stage(all BMW, Merc, most Fords now that the Mk3 Focus will have ESP as standard, the Avensis now has ESP as standard as well etc) though I agree that ESP and traction control should be exempt from VRT.

Not everyone is buying a BMW or a Merc. My point is smaller cars in the UK will have ESP etc as standard, in Ireland because there is 21% vat plus the VRT rate on top, these things are being excluded to keep prices down.

MrP

Anan1

The solution is not to make these items tax-free, but to make them mandatory.

craichoe

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Same goes for motorcycle helmets in Ireland, because of the luxury rate of VAT on motorcycle helmets in this country young bikers that cannot afford a decent lid end up going to Aldi & Lidl and buying cheap rubbish.

This is total rubbish, although i have an Arai Lid i paid 375 sterling for, its purely for comfort, a 100 euro helmet is just as safe as a 500 euro one. Their all tested to the same standard.

Airflow and comfort are the only difference.

MrPudding

Anan1 wrote: »

The solution is not to make these items tax-free, but to make them mandatory.

But if they are mandatory then they have to be paid for, therefore will attract VAT & VRT.

MrP

Anan1

MrPudding wrote: »

But if they are mandatory then they have to be paid for, therefore will attract VAT & VRT.

MrP

To be honest, I don't really see why they should not be taxable.

craichoe

Anan1 wrote: »

To be honest, I don't really see why they should not be taxable.

Taxation on a MANDATORY item required by law is bollocks.

Bread, Milk and Butter aren't taxed as their basic staple foods. Something to stop your brain splattering all over the road shouldnt be taxed either

Anan1

craichoe wrote: »

Taxation on a MANDATORY item required by law is bollocks.

Bread, Milk and Butter aren't taxed as their basic staple foods. Something to stop your brain splattering all over the road shouldnt be taxed either

These things would only be MANDATORY if you buy a car.;) What does food have to do with it? And why should safety features be tax-free?

Run_to_da_hills

craichoe wrote: »

This is total rubbish, although i have an Arai Lid i paid 375 sterling for, its purely for comfort, a 100 euro helmet is just as safe as a 500 euro one. Their all tested to the same standard.
Airflow and comfort are the only difference.

Those Aldi / Lidl lids are fine for scooters and small bikes but not for the serious biker. If someone can spend 6000k+ on a bike and skimps e60 euro on a cheapo lid he’s a fool. I paid e500+ for my Arai Astro R land before that it was a Doohan special and I don’t ride anything too fancy. The cost is cheap if you spread e100 over five years towards your skull. I wouldn’t use any lid without a "Double D" chin strap.

javaboy

Anan1 wrote: »

These things would only be MANDATORY if you buy a car.;) What does food have to do with it? And why should safety features be tax-free?

Because it would be an incentive to buy a safer car. I agree with you though that the food analogy doesn't hold up. A car is not absolutely necessary to live unlike food.

Anyway, they'd only increase VRT rates or road tax to compensate for lost revenues so don't worry about it.

daRobot

Agree with you, OP.

No way things like xenons should be subject to Vrt either.

Anan1

daRobot wrote: »

Agree with you, OP.

No way things like xenons should be subject to Vrt either.

Why not? And where would you stop? What about a/c? Sports suspension? PASM on a 911?

BlackWizard

xeons bit OTT there.

The luxury items list needs some modernising alright. Condoms are "luxury"

Sandwich

No extras, safety related or not, should be exempt from VAT.
It would reduce the revenue coffers without significantly increasing the purchase of safety equipment in my view.
Does anyone ever seriously think - "ESP, that would be a nice safe feature. How much? E800. Shame, no thanks. It it were E650 id have bought it."

javaboy

Sandwich wrote: »

No extras, safety related or not, should be exempt from VAT.
It would reduce the revenue coffers without significantly increasing the purchase of safety equipment in my view.
Does anyone ever seriously think - "ESP, that would be a nice safe feature. How much? E800. Shame, no thanks. It it were E650 id have bought it."

Actually I think they do. There would be no reduction in revenue coffers anyway. Like I said before, the other motor related taxes would just mysteriously increase :mad:

Anan1

BlackWizard wrote: »

Condoms are "luxury"

If you ask me, it's more luxurious without.

astraboy

Sandwich wrote: »

No extras, safety related or not, should be exempt from VAT.
It would reduce the revenue coffers without significantly increasing the purchase of safety equipment in my view.
Does anyone ever seriously think - "ESP, that would be a nice safe feature. How much? E800. Shame, no thanks. It it were E650 id have bought it."

Are you a troll? Seriously you seem to frequent the motors forum but are in no way interested in cars, you just like to spout politically correct Bull. The problem with VRT/VAT on safety features is that Irish base models are often "poverty spec" without the standard safety features of extra airbags or ESP for instance, that are are standard on base models right across the water in the UK. One recent example is Mitsubishi who removed ESP as a standard feature on a recent car launch in Ireland, making it an option instead to reduce the base models price. Sole reason was our obscure car tax regime.

Now, you can spout the retheroic of how silly people are not to purchase additional safety features(agree) or the greed of the car companies removing them to reduce prices and increase sales, but the buck stops with the Department of Finance with this one. The fact remains more standard safety features or removal of taxes on optional ones will make the cars on irish roads safer over the years, these better equipped models will one day be on the second hand market and the benefit filters down.

Of course this thinking is far removed from the "don't dare go 1kph over the speed limit, slow down, speed kills" sound bites that make the Government look good but do little for road safety in the long run.

Anan1

I dunno, astraboy. It seems to me that Irish buyers are far more interested in alloys and metallic paint than they are in ESP. They'll get safety aids if they're made mandatory, but they don't seem to want to pay for them.

colm_mcm

if something is standard, who decides how much it's worth?

This discussion has been had so many times here. It's not even a good argument. All the anti-VRT brigade are using this as an argument that the Gov don't care about its citizens. I'm not pro VRT, but arguments like this are pointless.
Why not make any product that reduces the risk of someone dying tax free. High Vis jackets, tyres, coffee in service stations, in fact anything that could be argued to have a benificial effect on someones wellbeing, no matter how tenuous.

daRobot

Anan1 wrote: »

Why not? And where would you stop? What about a/c? Sports suspension? PASM on a 911?

A/c isn't likely to promote safety is it...

Xenons provide better lighting conditions for night driving, so to me, that's a safety device.

astraboy

colm_mcm wrote: »

if something is standard, who decides how much it's worth?

This discussion has been had so many times here. It's not even a good argument. All the anti-VRT brigade are using this as an argument that the Gov don't care about its citizens. I'm not pro VRT, but arguments like this are pointless.
Why not make any product that reduces the risk of someone dying tax free. High Vis jackets, tyres, coffee in service stations, in fact anything that could be argued to have a benificial effect on someones wellbeing, no matter how tenuous.

@Anan1: It is true Irish buyers like to tick the options boxes, and often they might not select the extra safety options which seems to be misguided to be honest! however, this largely effects base model cars in the lower price ranges of new cars, ie superminis etc. The guy splashing 60K on a BMW 5 series already has lots of safety equipment as standard. It just seems to be punishing people that choose to make their cars safer, and obviously making cars in the lower end of the market more expensive hurts these buyers more.

As for the comment above, you can justify removing taxes on many safety products. A bit of common sense is obviously needed. Anyway, if the Government chooses to tax drink/ciggies and now possibly fattening foods, why not reduce taxes on the stuff that is good for us and even better makes our roads and our driving a safer pursuit.

Sandwich

astraboy wrote: »

As for the comment above, you can justify removing taxes on many safety products. A bit of common sense is obviously needed. Anyway, if the Government chooses to tax drink/ciggies and now possibly fattening foods, why not reduce taxes on the stuff that is good for us and even better makes our roads and our driving a safer pursuit.

Why not make the same argument for anything that is good for us: bottled water, nicotine patches, broccoli, gym membership..........

astraboy

Sandwich wrote: »

Why not make the same argument for anything that is good for us: bottled water, nicotine patches, broccoli, gym membership..........

The fact is you can make the same argument! Its just a case of common sense being used to not just use the stick but the carrot as well, be it to help people buy safer cars or lead healthier lifestyles! As regards the gym membership, I think removal of VAT on that is a great idea! However again the need for common sense comes in, like someone joining a gym to go on the threadmill should be encouraged, a person joining a "health club" and getting vat off tanning sessions is another!

Back on topic, I think any obvious safety features should not have VRT charged on them. As I said, the new cars with more safety options will trickle down to the second hand market making all the cars on our roads safer eventually. Claiming 20" alloys as a safety feature is an obvious no no. A basic list of exempt beneficial features would suffice. Airbags and electronic aids would be priority. Charging 21% vat, then another tax up to 30% again on safety features is a disgrace and just shows how the Government views motorists, as a handy revenue source, and **** the consequences of our taxation policies.

javaboy

Increase VAT on gyms I say. Anybody who can afford to pay to run indoors when there's perfectly good places to run outside for free can afford to pay a little more tax.