sneaky speed trap

smemon

Was driving home as usual today along the M1, just coming out of dundalk heading north.

High up on the merging road (coming on to M1), there was a garda car parked on the side, sticking out a bit (half parked on kerb) with the driver door slightly open and something pointing out the window, looking down on passing traffic.

Assume it was a hairdryer. Thought this was very sneaky, seen as there's dozens of those designated garda ramps scattered all over the place :cool:

agent_smith

Is this a stretch of road notorious for boy racers or is it a stretch of road where a lot of accidents have and are occuring on a daily basis ?

AugustusMaximus

Put it on www.irishspeedtraps.com

smemon

agent_smith wrote: »

Is this a stretch of road notorious for boy racers or is it a stretch of road where a lot of accidents have and are occuring on a daily basis ?

I've never come across accidents on it myself, but you do get all the northeners bombing it down home.

It would have been literally impossible to detect the speed trap as the merging road has bushes/shrubs or whatever hiding it so no doubt they pulled a few guys, but why bother with all the 'garda only' ramps if they're not going to use them?

The reality is people start merging/switching lanes where this tap was, so speed would probably be slightly less than that on a straight stretch with no exits.

Also, if gardai are actually seen by drivers, they'll be more cautious certainly in the short term. By hiding out of sight i don't think it's doing much good.

Sandwich

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Put it on www.irishspeedtraps.com

Or better - dont. You might prevent a few people being caught.

Senna

Those dastardly coppers, parking where we don't expect them, what will they think of next.:rolleyes:

Gatster

Sandwich wrote: »

Or better - dont. You might prevent a few people being caught.

No, do put it up. Smacks of, as usual, meeting targets and nothing else. As the OP said, if he wanted to slow people down as opposed to just catching them, he should be more visible.

javaboy

Gatster wrote: »

No, do put it up. Smacks of, as usual, meeting targets and nothing else. As the OP said, if he wanted to slow people down as opposed to just catching them, he should be more visible.

If a speeder knows where all the cameras are they will just speed where they know there are none.

If the same speeder is caught by surprise a few times, they'll clock up the fines+points and maybe learn their lesson.

A mixture of both approaches is best.

astraboy

javaboy wrote: »

If a speeder knows where all the cameras are they will just speed where they know there are none.

If the same speeder is caught by surprise a few times, they'll clock up the fines+points and maybe learn their lesson.

A mixture of both approaches is best.

OR, and heres a thought, he could be out patrolling the M1 in his mondeo pulling over tailgater's, dangerous drivers, people hogging the overtaking lane. Hiding behind a bridge/tree/wall and sending out speeding tickets is lazy lazy policing and catching people on a relatively safe road more so. Yes I know "its the law" but the guy 5kph over the limit on the M1 getting a fine while the idiot driving dangerously below the limit smacks of lack of interest(or interest in fines whichever way you look at it!) by the authorities.

D_murph

Sandwich wrote: »

Or better - dont. You might prevent a few people being caught.

:rolleyes:. do put it up, starve the tax collectors

Seth Brundle

Sandwich wrote: »

Or better - dont. You might prevent a few people being caught.

That doesn't serve road safety. Visibility is key to crime prevention be it speeding or muggings. It should be about prevention not punishment!

Mylow

javaboy wrote: »

If a speeder knows where all the cameras are they will just speed where they know there are none.

If the same speeder is caught by surprise a few times, they'll clock up the fines+points and maybe learn their lesson.

A mixture of both approaches is best.

What lesson will they learn? That we shoot fish in a barrel. Its pretty well documented Motorways are safest roads.

Its a road with merging lanes, all traffic is going in same direction. You can turn off M1 and go over to Navan via Slane you can legally do 100km/h down there, good luck to anyone who can average 100k down that road. To me that is crazy limit and to then be pulling people for doing 130 on a safe motorway.

What happened to the publication of 600 accident blackspots and enforcement on them. At least up the north they publish camera locations

We all heard the claptrap from politicians....education was one of them, its all about enforcement, full stop. I have yet to hear of any schemes set-up to educate drivers caught for different driving offences. Here is link to education scheme operated by Thames Valley Police.

Whay are people pre-occupied with Nordie Drivers....its not as if Southern Drivers are perfect. At least when you go North of the border most people use lanes and roundabouts correctly. It amazing when you cross the border going South, drivers sitting in right hand lane, wont use left hand lane. The difference is up North Police will pull you for it, its possible to pick-up 6 points for that one...Driving Without Due care and Attention...though you would have to be very unlucky. They normally have a word in drivers ear, if they seem to take it on board they will leave it at that.

javaboy

Mylow wrote: »

What lesson will they learn? That we shoot fish in a barrel. Its pretty well documented Motorways are safest roads.

Its a road with merging lanes, all traffic is going in same direction. You can turn off M1 and go over to Navan via Slane you can legally do 100km/h down there, good luck to anyone who can average 100k down that road. To me that is crazy limit and to then be pulling people for doing 130 on a safe motorway.

What happened to the publication of 600 accident blackspots and enforcement on them. At least up the north they publish camera locations

We all heard the claptrap from politicians....education was one of them, its all about enforcement, full stop. I have yet to hear of any schemes set-up to educate drivers caught for different driving offences. Here is link to education scheme operated by Thames Valley Police.

Whay are people pre-occupied with Nordie Drivers....its not as if Southern Drivers are perfect. At least when you go North of the border most people use lanes and roundabouts correctly. It amazing when you cross the border going South, drivers sitting in right hand lane, wont use left hand lane. The difference is up North Police will pull you for it, its possible to pick-up 6 points for that one...Driving Without Due care and Attention...though you would have to be very unlucky. They normally have a word in drivers ear, if they seem to take it on board they will leave it at that.

I'm not suggesting that they shoot fish in a barrel. There should be a mix of fixed cameras for particular black spots, mobile gatsos which change location regularly and a lot more unmarked Gardai in something other than a Mondeo.

The fact is that most speeders know when and where they can speed and get away with it.

Senna

i'll probably get flamed for this, but here's my opinion;

I believe that its the same people who break the speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways that also break the speed limit on national roads. Its completely rubbish to say 'so what if i speed on motorways, i keep to every other speed limit, at all other times'
I believe these people will also speed or drive at 'excess speed' on lesser roads. So i have no sympathy for anyone caught speed, no mater what the road.

astraboy

Senna wrote: »

i'll probably get flamed for this, but here's my opinion;

I believe that its the same people who break the speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways that also break the speed limit on national roads. Its completely rubbish to say 'so what if i speed on motorways, i keep to every other speed limit, at all other times'
I believe these people will also speed or drive at 'excess speed' on lesser roads. So i have no sympathy for anyone caught speed, no mater what the road.

Are those people dangerous drivers though? Your making a far and sweeping generalization there really. Going over the speed limit, and driving too fast, are two completely different things.

Senna

astraboy wrote: »

Are those people dangerous drivers though?

Who? people who break speed limits? Well at a guess, your more likely to be involved in an accident when over the speed limit, rather than under it (opinion not fact). But what is a fact, is your accident over the speed limit will be worse than if under the speed limit.

astraboy wrote: »

Your making a far and sweeping generalization there really.

Yeah i know, as said at the top just an opinion.;)

astraboy wrote: »

Going over the speed limit, and driving too fast, are two completely different things.

Yes of course, you could be 'driving too fast' for the road, but still be under the limit.
But the alternative is we do away with speed limits, so why not just stick to them?

worded

Why do irishspeedtraps.com want my date of birth to get their download? - Thats a little too much info me thinks.
Whats their privacy policy?

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Put it on www.irishspeedtraps.com

I.S.T.

worded wrote: »

Why do irishspeedtraps.com want my date of birth to get their download? - Thats a little too much info me thinks.
Whats their privacy policy?

Many sites such as Google, Yahoo, Hotmail ask for date of birth on sign up, it is not unusual. An example of when we would use your date of birth is if you forgot your password and we needed to confirm your identity. In saying that there is no compulsion for you to provide your correct date of birth. If you don't want to disclose this information then simply fill in any random date. Your personal details are not disclosed to any third party, they are used for administration of your account.

I.S.T.

Senna wrote: »

i'll probably get flamed for this, but here's my opinion;

I believe that its the same people who break the speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways that also break the speed limit on national roads. Its completely rubbish to say 'so what if i speed on motorways, i keep to every other speed limit, at all other times'
I believe these people will also speed or drive at 'excess speed' on lesser roads. So i have no sympathy for anyone caught speed, no mater what the road.

What about the people who drive mostly on rural roads and rarely ever go near a motorway? They will never be caught for speeding with the current enforcement process.

It's ridiculous to concentrate speed checks on our safest roads before tackling the much higher accident rates on the rural roads.

Our man in Havana

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Many sites such as Google, Yahoo, Hotmail ask for date of birth on sign up, it is not unusual. An example of when we would use your date of birth is if you forgot your password and we needed to confirm your identity. In saying that there is no compulsion for you to provide your correct date of birth. If you don't want to disclose this information then simply fill in any random date. Your personal details are not disclosed to any third party, they are used for administration of your account.

Are you registered under the data protection act?

Senna

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

What about the people who drive mostly on rural roads and rarely ever go near a motorway? They will never be caught for speeding with the current enforcement process.

It's ridiculous to concentrate speed checks on our safest roads before tackling the much higher accident rates on the rural roads.

My argument was with people complaining about being done for speeding, no mater what the road.
I agree completely, i'd like to see more speed checks on rural roads too.
I live in Donegal, so i rarely drive on Motorways, all rural roads around here.
Which may mean we have more checks on minor roads, as they don't have as many of the 'easy targets' that would be around Dublin.

Kimbot

smemon wrote: »

Was driving home as usual today along the M1, just coming out of dundalk heading north.

High up on the merging road (coming on to M1), there was a garda car parked on the side, sticking out a bit (half parked on kerb) with the driver door slightly open and something pointing out the window, looking down on passing traffic.

Assume it was a hairdryer. Thought this was very sneaky, seen as there's dozens of those designated garda ramps scattered all over the place :cool:

There is a reason these are called speed "traps", and that is to catch stupid drivers that fail to abide by the law.
If you don't speed then you have nothing to worry about.

Sandwich

kbannon wrote: »

That doesn't serve road safety. Visibility is key to crime prevention be it speeding or muggings. It should be about prevention not punishment!

Think we kind of agree but disagree.

Visibility is the key. But visibilty of the average speed trap is very limited - a mile. But the 'visibility' a garda achieves by catching someone makes a far deeper and longer lasting impression - miles of road into the future.

Seth Brundle

If that was the case Sandwich, then tell me why the current practice hasn't worked that well?
Is it because exceeding the speed limit is not a significant factor in fatality stats?

bryanmurr

The ramps on the side of the motorways are high vis points where the huards park up at times. they arent used for speed checks. anyway if they were, ppl would just put the boot down after they passed it cos chances are there wouldnt be more guards around for another bit.

Seth Brundle

I drove up to Belfast on Monday. On my way up I passed a Gatso Van (with markings on side and rear doors wide open) around Banbridge. About five miles further ahead there was another one.

Our man in Havana

Those are normally DVLNI road tax evasion dectection vans.

Seth Brundle

I have seen them before alright but IIRC these said police (was overtaking cars when I passed them)

Sandwich

kbannon wrote: »

If that was the case Sandwich, then tell me why the current practice hasn't worked that well?
Is it because exceeding the speed limit is not a significant factor in fatality stats?

I think its because not enough people are being caught for speeding. The chances of being caught are just too low at the moment.

Oft quoted, but that doesnt decrease its valididy : the biggest road safety experiment ever done in this country was the introduction of penalty points. People feared the greater chance of paying a penalty(loss of licence) for speeding. They slowed down and less people died or were injured on the roads. When it was realised that the chances were still too low to be bothered about, people reverted to their old ways and accidents rose.

Not getting at you particularly kbannon since I dont know your back ground and you seem knowledgeable on many matters motoring, but could you tell me why there is such a discrepancy between the emphasis put on slower driving by road authorities all over the world, and the average driver (a complete dilletante on road matters other than the fact that he can control a car) who decides that the authorities do not know what they are talking about and that he knows better them.

astraboy

Sandwich wrote: »

I think its because not enough people are being caught for speeding. The chances of being caught are just too low at the moment.

Oft quoted, but that doesnt decrease its valididy : the biggest road safety experiment ever done in this country was the introduction of penalty points. People feared the greater chance of paying a penalty(loss of licence) for speeding. They slowed down and less people died or were injured on the roads. When it was realised that the chances were still too low to be bothered about, people reverted to their old ways and accidents rose.

Not getting at you particularly kbannon since I dont know your back ground and you seem knowledgeable on many matters motoring, but could you tell me why there is such a discrepancy between the emphasis put on slower driving by road authorities all over the world, and the average driver (a complete dilletante on road matters other than the fact that he can control a car) who decides that the authorities do not know what they are talking about and that he knows better them.

Sandwich, a complex one this! If I can address your 1st point first. Yes, there was an undeniable reduction in road deaths when the penalty points first came in. However I would wager it was far more then people just obeying the speed limits, but all the other ROTR as well. Also, if people are in fear of being caught doing something wrong, they will pay more attention to their driving, which I'm sure made a massive difference.

As for the second point, its not one factor really but many. People always think they are better drivers then they are. People also don't like being told what to do, human nature really. Also, unfortunately the Authorities do NOT always know what they are talking about, speed seems an easy target in regards to road safety and it looks great to have cops pulling people over and politicians waxing lyrical about how many people were prosecuted for speeding last year. However, and I am open to correction on this, road safety is a very complex issue. There is not one "Silver bullet" that will instantly reduce deaths or injuries. You need better roads, safer cars, better driver training and testing, proper and visible enforcement of traffic laws that allow prevention of accidents(I'm not talking about standing behind a bridge with a radar gun here either)

Honestly the only way to prevent road deaths with todays roads, cars and technology is to ban driving.

Seth Brundle

Sandwich wrote: »

I think its because not enough people are being caught for speeding. The chances of being caught are just too low at the moment.

Oft quoted, but that doesnt decrease its valididy : the biggest road safety experiment ever done in this country was the introduction of penalty points. People feared the greater chance of paying a penalty(loss of licence) for speeding. They slowed down and less people died or were injured on the roads. When it was realised that the chances were still too low to be bothered about, people reverted to their old ways and accidents rose.

Not getting at you particularly kbannon since I dont know your back ground and you seem knowledgeable on many matters motoring, but could you tell me why there is such a discrepancy between the emphasis put on slower driving by road authorities all over the world, and the average driver (a complete dilletante on road matters other than the fact that he can control a car) who decides that the authorities do not know what they are talking about and that he knows better them.

That doesn't answer my questions.
The current system, where most speed checks are done covertly to some extent, does not work given that fatalities continues. Is this because the process is ineffective or because there are other factors which simply aren't being tackled? going too fast in an urban area is much more dangerous than doing 50km/h over the limit on a motroway. Who is more likely to get caught? I exceed the speed limit on motorways most of the time.
Anyhow this argument has been done to death on boards and there are never any winners to the debate!