Devastated

msg11

RosieJoe wrote: »

A couple of points for you to ponder/debate regarding Insurance.

If your Dad insures a car and puts you down as named driver, if the Insurance company determines that you drive the car the majority of the time, do they have the right terminate the contract? I think that they can but may be hard to prove.

If your Dad buys the car and insures it. You buy a smaller car and insure it you may not be insured on it. Highest cover you could get is third party only. Also, in the fine print of your own policy it will state that you are not allowed to drive a car which is owned by someone who permanently resides with you even if they give you permission to dirve it.

Let the debate begin!

I am defiantly full comp. I just rather do this all legal as I stated threw out, you can get them with 1.6 on the book, now thats just asking for trouble.

Anyone got any suggestions on a car ?

alias no.9

msg11 wrote: »

alias no.9 is typical IRELAND, you make me laugh, trying to deny how much a rip of this country is, hardly here nor there in this thread to be honest.

If you read my post, I ran the numbers for a 17 year old in the UK with a full licence, on an ITR with every security device fitted to the car and locking it up over night and doing very low annual mileage, would have to pay twice as much as you were quoted here in ireland without even having passed your test yet :O.

That to me sounds like you were offered an excellent deal by comparrison with someone in your situation residing in our nearest neighbouring country.

I simply don't see how you can justify a claim of rip off ireland on this count.

groupb

msg11 wrote: »

I know I am not a perfect driver, even after years of driving who is ? But I agree it takes more than a year..

Forget a about the pun, the reason I was after a type R was because it was around the same as the normal 1.6 price wise, and I feel it would hold its value longer.

The type of car I would like would be something, that is'nt a hot hatch, I would say that stepping into the 1.8 range was always risky from the start. So I would, be looking for a decent bit of power, say 1.4-1.6 and something that is not a hatch as I am quite a tall person, and the fiesta is pushing it on the leg room in the back of the car and head room for myself.

Also, I would like the car too hold its value fairly well. I was also thinking along the lines of the mirage 1.6 or the civic saloon vti. Feedback anyone? Even suggestions for other cars, taking into account above...

You say you're responsible. If you are why are you worried about the room in the back of the fiesta. Provisional holders are only supposed to carry one passanger that is a qualified driver. As you're only 17 you must be on your first provisional. If you carry people in the back of your car you're already breaking the conditions of your policy. And you wonder why they are loading you . Just one question . Do you drive around with your mates in the car at the moment?

promethius

promethius, I am going to try and come up with an excuse for that, I am a realistic person here, and they are cocky. Flash the car in front of the girls etc... I am not that type of person, as I said I had a brush with death. I would like to see it again in my life. And also, lets not say here, that people in your age bracket are not cocky, I guess around the 30 - 40 ? May-be not. Which I see all the time on phones, pulling off driving that you would pay a stunt man too do.

I'm in my twenties msg and i know i was a lot cockier when i was 17 in relation to driving and everything else in life Experience counts for a lot which is what the insurance company have been telling you.

Enoying a 2.2L prelude now so nothing but good things to say about honda to be honest. Your time will come for something you'd really like which you seem to have accepted so something to look forward to.

Biro

You could go for something like the Civic coupe, they come in 1.6iLS and 1.6 VTi. The VTi's are 160bhp, the other is about 106 or something. Even the 106bhp one will be fine for now.
I think your best bet is 1.6 or lower, as insurance companies tend to load over 1.6 on young drivers.

Kimbot

Suggestions for cars:

Toyota Levin
Toyota Corolla GT Coupe (Twincam)
Mitsi Mirage/Lancer
Civic VTI

All depends on what you want but most of the Honda's and Toyotas are all classed as High performance so the insurance will be a factor.

msg11

groupb wrote: »

You say you're responsible. If you are why are you worried about the room in the back of the fiesta. Provisional holders are only supposed to carry one passanger that is a qualified driver. As you're only 17 you must be on your first provisional. If you carry people in the back of your car you're already breaking the conditions of your policy. And you wonder why they are loading you . Just one question . Do you drive around with your mates in the car at the moment?

No I don't , it brings on too much attention. Sorry, but am I not aloud room in the back of my car ? And I do wonder why they are loading me, mate read threw the thread before you start going...

groupb

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here. Its just that I'm in my 30's , and every time I take my MX5 out , it seems like some young dickhead with his mates in civics or integras or some other bewinged heap with a loud exhaust , is trying to race me. The point I'm trying to make is if you get an integra , at some stage you're going to want to prove what your car can do , and with limited experience it could be the last time you get to try it. Btw saying that it brings "too much attention" just proves what I said earlier on.

legs11

awww my heart bleeds for you...
17 and cant get a ITR.

well thats a good thing, you most likely wouldnt be here very long to let us know how you were getting on with it if you did get it.

ninty9er

Off topic, but it's one thing that really bugs me

OP: learn how to spell!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Anyhow On topic. I was quoted €4300 by AXA on a 1986 Opel Kadett 1.2 4 speed 4 years ago when I was your age. And at that I had to show written proof of 8 driving lessons by a certified instructor.

Consider yourself lucky you got a quote at all. My mam gave me her 97 Corsa 2 years ago, but I wanted a better interior comfortable spec so I sold it and got a 00 Corsa and got her to insure it. It was still €1300 (which the sale of the other car paid for) and came down to €900 last year. I've just changed to a 1.6 Astra, which isn't all that fast either but is much more refined and comfortable. Insurance will go back up to around €1100 when it's due in April (€800 for me and the balance for the parents is how we split it). She uses it just as much as I do so we're covered insurance wise as we're equal users.

If I was to get my own insurance on that with 2 years named driving experience and a full licence for 30 months it would be around €1800.

If you already have an Integra, why not just ask him to insure that for you rather than get a car??

Options for a car
We need to know how much €€€ you have to spend to offer advice.

around/below the €6000 mark

VW Polo GTI 1.6
Toyota Corolla G6 1.3/1.6
Audi A3 1.6
Mitsu Mirage 1.3/1.6
Toyota MR2 1.6

vibe666

what it comes down to in the end is that you need to be able to prove to your insurance company that you are not like a large portion of provisional licence holding 17 year old lads who wants to spend all his driving time going sideways round roundabouts and scaring the bejesus out of old ladies.

I'm not saying you are one of those types of lads, I'm sure you are a perfectly responsible driver.

BUT as far as insurance goes, you need to be able to prove it. The insurance company is a business and it needs ot make a profit, so they pay people to look at all the statistics for every type of driver in every type of car there is and work out how much they need to charge to make a profit when everything is added up after everyone has either made it home alive or the garda have finished peeling whats left of their mangled corpses off the trunks of trees and walls.

The way you prove to them you are a good driver is by not being one of the people who crash into things and die/kill someone else or generally make a mess of things.

Every year that you avoid doing this is a little bit more proof that you're not a risk to them despite what the statistics say and every year they will charge you a little bit less assuming you don't need to make any claims.

eventually you will be able to get a nice powerful car that you can afford to insure at a resonable price. coincidentally you will also have gained enough driving experience to be able to drive said car without becoming one of those messy statistics like the lad in that M5 in the US and if you're really lucky you might even have a decent enough job that you can pay for it yourself.

When I took my test in the UK when I was 17 I had already been racing old bangers for 4 years and I thought I was the best driver there was. 2 weeks after passing my test, I put my MkII Escort through a telegraph pole and did myself quite a bit of damage to my foot (the footwell caved in on me when the pole pushed the engine back into the passenger compartment).

I was doing about 45-50 MPH and according to the police officer who interviewed me after I got back from having my leg plastered, they don't normally break at that speed and it really ought to have killed me. Fortunately someone was watching down on me as the pole was rotten at the base and had snapped like a very large twig as I hit it and the potato field I landed in saved me from any further serious damage.

I'm 31 now and other than 2 accidents that were the fault of the other party, I have not had any more accidents and I actually think I'm a pretty good driver now (touch wood).

Driving experience takes years and years to build up and I'm still learning.

Whatever you might think about your own driving skills, at 17 you still have a lot to learn about driving. if you were that good at that age you'd be a professional racing driver. there's a big difference between being able to pass your driving test and being able to full handle the power of an ITR without doing yourself or someone else a serious injury.

Jeapy

Im not shooting you down here but if you don't know the difference between a 1L and a 1.8L in the eyes of an insurance company, you should do a bit of reading! I know feckall about cars, but I know that much. With Hibernian, if you drive a 1.6L or less you can do the Ignition test to get a discount. You should do that for now until you get your full licence and a few more years experience (seeing as you say that you have almost a year in a smaller car-this counts for nothing with insurance companies). Good luck and drive safe!

wil

msg11 wrote: »

The basic point I was making, really was that, its a typical Ireland thing really, charge as high as you can it that type of car and that type of person.

Point missed completely.
It has nothing to do with RIP off Ireland (now theres a real pun)
The point is that the insurance company (and everyone else) is telling you that you shouldnt be driving this car except perhaps on a private circuit. Unfortunately for the rest of us they are obliged to give you a quote, but fortunately the quote they give should ensure most teenagers without even a licence dont get to drive street legal powerful cars on our roads. Its not for your benefit but for the rest of the driving public. Its no great assurance from you for you to tell us how you will pass and you've been driving for a year, that makes you just an absolute beginner with a slightly jumped up impression of your own personal ability. What you may have in reaction speed is of little use without the anticipation and handling skills and experience gained over years and miles in a variety of conditions.
What you seem to be blissfully unaware is that the more powerful the car, the quicker you get yourself in to trouble (
Its a moot point to mention how safe bigger cars may be structurally, the idea is not to crash them in the first place.
So get a few years in an cheap car like almost everyone did before the millennium, you wont cry about the inevitable scratch, then with a little more experience, and the cash in the bank and a proper NCB, buy yourself a decent car that wont require pi$$ing all our money away to a very grateful insurance company.
The point is teenager plus powerful car so often means RIP in Ireland.
Best to avoid that.

BTW - hilarious
Q - "Do you drive around with your mates in the car at the moment?
A - No I don't , it brings on too much attention."

Unlike the total anonymity of kid cruisiing in a ITR, yeah roighte.:rolleyes:
Any of these sound familiar?
"I'll race ya. "
"Are you the legal owner of this car?"
"Me cars been nicked from the driveway in broad daylight."

Now Im off to buy a Tornado with my frequent flyer miles. Stick an L plate on it and I'm away. And with my amount of flying time I will pass my pilots test. Anyone know a cheap jet insurer?:rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

alias no.9 wrote: »

If you read my post, I ran the numbers for a 17 year old in the UK with a full licence, on an ITR with every security device fitted to the car and locking it up over night and doing very low annual mileage, would have to pay twice as much as you were quoted here in ireland without even having passed your test yet :O.

That to me sounds like you were offered an excellent deal by comparrison with someone in your situation residing in our nearest neighbouring country.

I simply don't see how you can justify a claim of rip off ireland on this count.

I thin this is going to keep getting ignored Alias. Posts that shoot down a good rant are never popular with the ranter.

msg11

The absolute rant is over.

Just nice to know, what the people think in the cars beside me always nice, will take it into account when I am out next.

Just to add, that audi a3 looks like a very nice car. the 00 model. Thanks for the suggestions, there all nice cars, some I never though of and they look very nice.

RosieJoe

msg11 wrote: »

I am defiantly full comp. I just rather do this all legal as I stated threw out, you can get them with 1.6 on the book, now thats just asking for trouble.

Anyone got any suggestions on a car ?

Just to clarify this for you msg, you may have fully comp on your own car but if you drive someone else's with their permission you will only have third party insurance on their car!

Atomic Pineapple

RosieJoe wrote: »

Just to clarify this for you msg, you may have fully comp on your own car but if you drive someone else's with their permission you will only have third party insurance on their car!

and thats usually only if you have a full licence

astraboy

Lot of high horses on here, for a change.:rolleyes:

I'm in no way condoning giving a 17 year old on a provisional a car with 197BHP and a car that is clearly a performance car. OP, you made the right choice starting small. If you started on the ITR, your chances of crashing are seriously high. I'm not slating your driving, but the fact is a 17 year old in a fast car is generally a dangerous mix. Your better off getting some experience under your belt in a small car first. Get the basics right, then move up the ladder.

For instance, I started on my Dad's old 1.6 vectra. Dead slow, but plenty of power for a 17 year old. Bought my own 1.4L astra a couple of years later, again, enough power for my age/experience really. Now I'm older I bought a 1.8 T-Spark alfa 156(cue slagging!:D). Moving up the power stakes over time, instead of going to a very powerful car first day, is a better option as you get accustomed to the power over time. Also, you will be more experienced.

One other point, are provisional drivers banned from carrying passangers other then the full licenced driver? When did this come in?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Afraid It's hard to have sympathy for you OP.

Itegras are pretty powerful machines and the insurance was pretty typical given your age and experience.

I got my first car at 22, bought my fathers '99 Almera 1.4 from him.

Was thinking of a MX-5 1.6 sometime but decided for insurance reasons I'd wait till my 25th b-day in March.

So I'll be 25, with full licence for 2.5 years or so and full NCB, insuring a 1.6 MX-5. And an MX-5 is not in the same league of power as an Integ Type R.

Some things have to wait I'm afraid.

But the upshot is that getting a sensible car when you're young will help you avoid hassle from the cops.

i have never being stopped in my Almera saloon and am always waved through any checkpoints.

One checkpoint for random breathalyzing made me laugh. Most of the lads at "random" pulled to the side were in sporty cars like Civics, Integs, Evos etc. And I was waved through without a second glance in my trusty Almera.

By the time you do get a Integ Type R you should be past the age of guy that the cops would hassle.

astraboy

Not saying a 1.6 MX5 is'nt fast, but its not exactly a rocket compared to what else is out there. The trills of an MX5 are more handling then raw power. Just because the Insurance companies tell us we should all drive 1.4's till we are 25, does'nt mean we should. Getting experience and building up confidence on the road in a small car is important, however if he wants to buy an ITR whens he's 22 and he can afford it then fair play. As for the cops hasseling guys in EVO's, nothing new there, but any evo owners I know would NEVER dare drink and drive. They spent too much on their pride and joy, they value their car, license and life too much. In my experience, its the guys in standard cars in their 40's and 50's that are the drink drivers.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Good post AstraBoy

I guess it's all about how far you're willing to go in order to get a car.

The OP could be driving his Integ Type R now if he stumped up the €8400 a year to insure it.

I could get a MX-5 alot earlier if I was willing to pay higher insurance.

You're right too regarding drink driving.

I only know 2 guys my age that would drink and drive, but far,far more in their 40's and 50's that would.

Unfortunately the cops often don't see it that way and will have a go at the young driver as much as they can. Not fair or very intelligent thinking, but there you go. And driving any sort of sporty car when you're in the 17-26 age bracket is almost akin to running down a street with a balaclava and a gun in the eyes of the Gardai.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Was just reminded there from writing my last post about my cousin.

He really looks for hassle with the cops.

He drives a BMW 740iL with tinted windows and huge alloys aroun Limerick, while having hoodies on and pumping loads of rap music out of the speakers.

And he genuinely wonders why he keeps get stopped by the cops!

Deliberator

astraboy wrote: »

Now I'm older I bought a 1.8 T-Spark alfa 156(cue slagging!:D). QUOTE]

Apologies for going off topic. You just reminded me of my boredom in last night's traffic. I found myself trying come up with a sentence that fitted to the letters of ALFA ROMEO. The best I could come up with was -

Any Luck Finding A Replacement Owner / Motor / Engine / Other ?

BTW, I have no personal experience of the marque. A couple of guys I know have owned one, and didn't appreciate their experiences, but like yourself, I recognize that it's one of those marques that bring on the abuse. I get a similar result when I mention my Ducati <g>

msg11

Leroy Gigantic Meteorology wrote: »

By the time you do get a Integ Type R you should be past the age of guy that the cops would hassle.

That's true, I had nothing but hassle in the other integra, it actully got too the stage, were I was thinking is it worth the hassle of bring this car out? This one of the reasons I bough the fiesta too get away from them hassling me.

Leroy Gigantic Meteorology wrote: »

Good post AstraBoy

I guess it's all about how far you're willing to go in order to get a car.

The OP could be driving his Integ Type R now if he stumped up the €8400 a year to insure it.

I could get a MX-5 alot earlier if I was willing to pay higher insurance.

You're right too regarding drink driving.

I only know 2 guys my age that would drink and drive, but far,far more in their 40's and 50's that would.

Unfortunately the cops often don't see it that way and will have a go at the young driver as much as they can. Not fair or very intelligent thinking, but there you go. And driving any sort of sporty car when you're in the 17-26 age bracket is almost akin to running down a street with a balaclava and a gun in the eyes of the Gardai.

Well I think that would be just really stupid of me too actully go and pay that, its just a car at the end of the day, it will be there when I am older, and I am actully after the 02 model of the car only its high in price for me, so by the time I can get insured on the itr I will be able to get a model I like.

As for the drink driving, there are a few muppets I dare say know, that indulge in this all the time around here, and have the absolute boys in the back of the car. But as was said I would hardly say the car is high performance, poor engine and gearbox getting recked.

Drive outside your local tonight, and see how many people get in there cars, its shocking, and you can tell there drinking, what age would they be ? 40-60.

Also another major problem I have is people smoking a joint or 5 absolutely cabbaged driving around thinking this is normal.

galwaytt

Deliberator wrote: »

I get a similar result when I mention my Ducati <g>

.............I know how you feel.......they only part that gives trouble on my Aprilia has........'Ducati' written on it....;)

Reg/rect, that is..........

vibe666

I was thinking of a way to reduce the number of young epople killed on the roads, and I thought that a good way to help matters would be to restrict drivers to a 1L car in their first year, or until they pass their test. Then, as with insurance quotes coming down as you gain experience, for every year on the road, you get to 'earn' an extra 0.1L, so by the time you're 27 you've earnt yourself a 2L motor and plenty of experience built up driving. 3L by 37 etc. and away you go. If there was a way to police it then I think it would be a great idea. It might have to work differently for diesels given the differences in performance but I think something like that could actually work.

that way it wouldn't just be a case of only the rich kids or poor kids with 3 jobs getting fast cars and killing people/themselves.

/cue flaming from all the young drivers out there who think 200bhp is a safe way to learn to drive.

colm_mcm

isn't the forthcoming learners permit going to have some stipulation that a sub 1.0 car has to be driven?

eringobragh

colm_mcm wrote: »

isn't the forthcoming learners permit going to have some stipulation that a sub 1.0 car has to be driven?

It was mentioned alright

Senna

vibe666 wrote: »

I was thinking of a way to reduce the number of young epople killed on the roads, and I thought that a good way to help matters would be to restrict drivers to a 1L car in their first year, or until they pass their test. Then, as with insurance quotes coming down as you gain experience, for every year on the road, you get to 'earn' an extra 0.1L, so by the time you're 27 you've earnt yourself a 2L motor and plenty of experience built up driving. 3L by 37 etc. and away you go. If there was a way to police it then I think it would be a great idea. It might have to work differently for diesels given the differences in performance but I think something like that could actually work.

In principle a good plan, but it will never work.
A 1ltr car can be just as deadly in the hands of an inexperienced driver.
I learned to drive in a 1.3 escort and a 1.6 Primera, it wasn't cause i wanted more power than a 1ltr, it was the cars my parents had. (Also lots of parents pass on old cars to kids).

Engine size wouldn't be as big a factor if we had proper training, starting of in secondary school and then a minimum amount of lessons needed before taking the test (at least 25 lessons)

Also a tougher penalty points system for the first 3-5 years after passing the test.
eg. Breaking the speed limit in first year = One year ban

3L by 37 etc

You couldn't tell a 35yr that s/he not allowed to drive a 3ltr car cause s/he too young.:D

eringobragh

Senna wrote: »

Also a tougher penalty points system for the first 3-5 years after passing the test.
eg. Breaking the speed limit in first year = One year ban

Thats a tad bit harst don't you think.:eek: Maybe double points might be the answer. A years ban for doing... lets say 56k in a 50k is taking the piss.