[Eircom & Resellers..BT, UTV etc] ADSL Speed upgrade to 8MB discussion...ongoing

Valentia

Back to it's slow self now :mad: Don't know what was happening earlier. Checked 3 different places and there was something going on.

Fingleberries

From the Advertising Blurb Information leaflet that came in from BT this week, they gave 27 June as the date when they were going to upgrade their lines.

I'm on BT 2Mb - gonna wait to see what 3Mb is like before forking out an extra €10 a month to get the spanking new 7.6Mb line (normally only use it for games / xbox live downloads, etc.).

If (as some have suggested) it goes to contentionless connection, I reckon 3Mb should be sufficient. We'll see...

Do you reckon that companies will create new tarrif for people who want to change to the 7.6 Mb rate after the 'free' upgrade for existing customers?

Grommet

Fingleberries wrote: »

From the Advertising Blurb
If (as some have suggested) it goes to contentionless connection, I reckon 3Mb should be sufficient. We'll see...

Do you reckon that companies will create new tarrif for people who want to change to the 7.6 Mb rate after the 'free' upgrade for existing customers?

The speculation earlier in this thread about no contention on these new products was, I'm afraid, completely wrong. The 48:1 products (which will then be 1 & 3Mbps speeds) will remain at 48:1 and the 24:1 products (which will be 7.6, 10 and 12Mbps) will remain at 24:1.

However, what you can expect is that because the base product speeds are higher, typical usage across all users on each "pipe" will tend to be much less than the levels at which the policing of the contention actuall kicks in. In other words, the service may actually appear to most users as if it is not contended, simply because when they are looking for the bandwidth it will be available at close to the maximum potential speed. This is a very normal behavioural phenomenon and has absolutely NOTHING to do with ADSL2+ despite what was suggested previously.

(ADSL2+ basically allows an extension of the frequency bands that are used within a copper pair to deliver data, thus allowing higher data rates to be achieved - it has nothing to do with contention ratio)

Grommet

As for the question on the tarriffs, the 7.6Mbps product will become the standard 3rd tier "always on" product for eircom (i.e. not counting the "Time" product - they will have 1Mbps, 3Mbps and 7.6Mbps products, with no 4, 5 or 6Mbps products). So the pricing will stay as it is today for the 3Mbps product

DemonOfTheFall

Fingleberries wrote: »

If (as some have suggested) it goes to contentionless connection, I reckon 3Mb should be sufficient. We'll see...

It won't be contentionless, ADSL2+ changes nothing about the connection other than between you and your local exchange. Still contended for the whole rest of the way.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen any contention on any home DSL product either eircom/bt/utv. Have you?

Altreab

Couple of questions.

1) Where can i find out what equipment has been installed in the local exchange? EG ADSL or ADSL2+

2) Will there be an increase for those of us on 1 Meg lines at the moment?

3) when i test my line i get the following results

Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 1024 Kbps 128 Kbps
Noise Margin 13.1 dB 26.0 dB
Line Attenuation 46.0 dB 24.0 dB

After inputting those figures into http://212.23.23.177/adsl/default.aspx it says i should be able to get 1585Kbps id ADSL is installed and around 6374Kbps if ADSL2+ is installed. Are these likely to be real world performances? At the moment i am on a 1 Meg line and i can always get 100% download and upload speeds.
Only problem is the ping speeds which tend to be around the 90ms mark all the time


As can be seen there would be a massive differance in performance if it was availible! I would love to get the higher speeds if i could at all


Thanks in advance

Altreab

yoyo

Altreab wrote: »

Couple of questions.

1) Where can i find out what equipment has been installed in the local exchange? EG ADSL or ADSL2+

2) Will there be an increase for those of us on 1 Meg lines at the moment?

3) when i test my line i get the following results

Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 1024 Kbps 128 Kbps
Noise Margin 13.1 dB 26.0 dB
Line Attenuation 46.0 dB 24.0 dB

After inputting those figures into http://212.23.23.177/adsl/default.aspx it says i should be able to get 1585Kbps id ADSL is installed and around 6374Kbps if ADSL2+ is installed. Are these likely to be real world performances? At the moment i am on a 1 Meg line and i can always get 100% download and upload speeds.
Only problem is the ping speeds which tend to be around the 90ms mark all the time


As can be seen there would be a massive differance in performance if it was availible! I would love to get the higher speeds if i could at all


Thanks in advance

Altreab

One meg customers are not being upgraded, only the higher ones i.e 2meg packages and up

Nick

SeanW

Bit of premature speculation with regard to ADSL2.

The ADSL protocol we are using now is G.dmt. This is (on paper at least) capable of 12/1 Mbit operation. Kudos to Eircom on one count - choosing G.dmt instead of crappier options such as dmt.lite when rolling out Broadband.

So in theory, if your business is right next to the exchange on a top quality line, you can get 12 down 1 up service with ADSL. Everyone else can take their chances with maximum speeds of less.

Personally, I've about 2-3km from my exchange, but I can get ~8MB down on my line if I want it (I used one of those line calculator tools) on ADSL, 14MB with ADSL2.

Firstly there are only a few ADSL2 enabled exchanges nationwide - Eircom is rolling some out and BT has a few under LLU arrangements. But to switch to either ADSL2 service requires physically pulling your phone line at the exchange side from Eircoms mainline ADSL enabled ports to your choice of operators ADSL2 equipment ports at that exchange.

Thus, unless there is hard evidence that the broadband system will undergo an en-masse conversion to ADSL2, it is safe to assume on the balance of probabilities that most of us will be staying with ADSL.

DenMan

Lets hope they do something about the exchange. I am now in Sligo and for the last few days the connection has been brutal, have a 2Mb connection. Need it for work, sending and receiving files. Only last year our landline was still a carrier line. The work is ongoing says eircom.....:mad:

Richard Dower

Limerick has been very slow for the last few evenings, anyone else experiencing the same?

Serious contention kicking in it seems...god know how bad things will get when 7.6 drops.

Valentia

DemonOfTheFall wrote: »

Also, I don't think I've ever seen any contention on any home DSL product either eircom/bt/utv. Have you?

I'd imagine you are the only person the country so.......... Do you use the net between 5 & 9pm??

Fingleberries

All this talk of increased speed got me curious and I checked in on my settings and got a bit of a shock.

noise margin downstream: 6 db
output power upstream: 11 db
attenuation downstream: 63 db

WAN Port Statistics:
Link Status: Up
Upstream Speed: 256 kbps
Downstream Speed: 1024 kbps

First thing - the Downstream sync speed (1024 kbps). Is this because I'm so far from the Exchange? I would have expected this to be 2048 kbps because I'm supposted to have the 2Mbps package. I never checked this before and have been paying for 2Mb for almost a year now.

Second thing - on the ADSL and ADSL2+ Line Capability Estimator I get this information.

Your maximum line connection speed using an ADSL (up to 8Mbps) service is: 1024Kbps

If you are on a Max product, that uses the IP Profile system (sometimes called BRAS Data Rate) if you maintain the above line speed for 3 days or more your IP Profile would be set to: 0.5 Mbps


If your service provider uses ADSL2+ the maximum line speed likely is: 2033Kbps

With ADSL2+ the maximum IP throughput is likely to be around: 1799Kbps

It would appear your line is under performing with regard to ADSL, this may be due to issues like the ring wire, unfiltered equipment and other factors. Ideally you would expect to see connection speeds of 1700Kbps or higher at your attenuation

Your ADSL2+ speeds are likely to be in the range 1200Kbps to 2400Kbps. With the line under performing with ADSL, it is likely this will hold back any speed increases the checker is suggesting for ADSL2+.

I tested using 2048kbps in the calculations with the same SNR / downstream attenuation and the speed didn't improve much. Does that mean that I'm screwed and any speed upgrade isn't going to benefit me at all?

I'm in Balbriggan (Co. Dublin) and I'm with BT, and I'd doubt if I'm any more than 1-1.5Km from the Exchange.

Altreab

yoyo wrote: »

One meg customers are not being upgraded, only the higher ones i.e 2meg packages and up

Nick

ah FFS do i now have to upgrade to 2 meg on the chance i MIGHT be able to get 4 Megs in a few weeks time??

Praetorian

Yours stats are terrible Fingleberries. Could be internal wiring in your house. Try and connect to the first socket in the house. Make sure you have filters on all other sockets, have you got sky plugged up to your phone system? An alarm phone system? Try a shorter cable from the first socket to the dsl modem.

DECEiFER

Altreab wrote: »

ah FFS do i now have to upgrade to 2 meg on the chance i MIGHT be able to get 4 Megs in a few weeks time??

2 => 3 (not 4)

smellslikeshoes

SeanW wrote: »

Bit of premature speculation with regard to ADSL2.

The ADSL protocol we are using now is G.dmt. This is (on paper at least) capable of 12/1 Mbit operation. Kudos to Eircom on one count - choosing G.dmt instead of crappier options such as dmt.lite when rolling out Broadband.

So in theory, if your business is right next to the exchange on a top quality line, you can get 12 down 1 up service with ADSL. Everyone else can take their chances with maximum speeds of less.

Personally, I've about 2-3km from my exchange, but I can get ~8MB down on my line if I want it (I used one of those line calculator tools) on ADSL, 14MB with ADSL2.

Firstly there are only a few ADSL2 enabled exchanges nationwide - Eircom is rolling some out and BT has a few under LLU arrangements. But to switch to either ADSL2 service requires physically pulling your phone line at the exchange side from Eircoms mainline ADSL enabled ports to your choice of operators ADSL2 equipment ports at that exchange.

Thus, unless there is hard evidence that the broadband system will undergo an en-masse conversion to ADSL2, it is safe to assume on the balance of probabilities that most of us will be staying with ADSL.

I agree that there is a chance it will happen this way. The people who are living on one of the 40 or so ADSL2+ exchanges that have already been announced will get their connection as ADSL2+ while everyone else gets it through ADSL.

The only problem I can see with that is the super small number of people who would actually be able to get the full 12 on the current equipment. Adsl2+ would increase that number greatly. In fact you would be looking at basically living in the exchange to be able to get close to 12 with the current equipment. And people like Fingleberries up there are going to just plain get left behind because of poor line quality. There would be lots of people on 3 meg who just won't be able to go any higher. I can imagine a lot of very annoyed people in the coming weeks if they just up the speeds and don't change the platform for the majority.

edit- just noticed a post by Gromment on another thread.

Grommet wrote: »

because of the imminent speed increases, eircom have stopped work on a lot of their new site roll out to focus on upgrading existing exchanges with the ADSL2+ kit that they need to support the 10 and 12Mbps products. So their entire new site DSL roll out has slipped out a few months.

Because of some of the great inside information that he has given before, I would take this as gospel.

DemonOfTheFall

Valentia wrote: »

I'd imagine you are the only person the country so.......... Do you use the net between 5 & 9pm??

A lot, yes. Never noticed any with BT really. Pings go up a bit, but can still pull down my full 3Mbps.

Valentia

Jazus!! Must move to Shankill. Actually do a speed test this minute please. I'd love to see it.

Valentia

Valentia wrote: »

Something weird happening here this morning..............

That was this morning.............this is now



Now how can that be??

Nick_oliveri

Valentia wrote:

Now how can that be??

Erosion.

admol

Surely it'll be ADSL2+ across all exchanges.

For example on ADSL my line will only support 3mb and the upgrade will be useless to me. Therefore i will downgrade my package to 2mb(3mb in June) and pay €60.99 instead of €89.49.

As a result Eircom will lose €28.50 a month from me alone.

Not going to happen :rolleyes:

Valentia

admol wrote: »

Surely it'll be ADSL2+ across all exchanges.

For example on ADSL my line will only support 3mb and the upgrade will be useless to me. Therefore i will downgrade my package to 2mb(3mb in June) and pay €60.99 instead of €89.49.

As a result Eircom will lose €28.50 a month from me alone.

Not going to happen :rolleyes:

Of course it will be ADSL2+. We would be, I know I know we are, the laughing stock of the world if it isn't.

€89.49 a month. Holy sh1t. It's worth putting up with morons in BT support if that's what Eircom are charging.

admol

Valentia wrote: »

Of course it will be ADSL2+. We would be, I know I know we are, the laughing stock of the world if it isn't.

€89.49 a month. Holy sh1t. It's worth putting up with morons in BT support if that's what Eircom are charging.

I know its a joke.

Line rental and all local & national calls €40.99, 3mb BB €48.50

Total €89.49

kaizersoze

admol wrote: »

Line rental and all local & national calls €40.99, 3mb BB €48.50

Total €89.49

BT equivelent (also includes UK calls)= €66.95

Valentia

Joke? No:D

The same package with BT, including UK landline is €66.95.

Eircon indeed............

admol

Valentia wrote: »

Joke? No:D

The same package with BT, including UK landline is €66.95.

Eircon indeed............

Don't want to take the risk of something happening with my line and being at the mercy of Eircom to have it fixed.

If comreg were any good this woulddn't be a problem :rolleyes:

Valentia

admol wrote: »

Don't want to take the risk of something happening with my line and being at the mercy of Eircom to have it fixed.

If comreg were any good this woulddn't be a problem :rolleyes:

It's you that is joking now. LOL. That's a ridiculously expensive insurance policy. It hasn't been a problem for me until yesterday and some idiot in support. But it seems it is not a BT problem in the end so the extra money would have been wasted anyway. I can definitely live with that for €23 a month. But sure if you have it to spare you may as well give it to the poor hoors. They badly need it!

Valentia

Oh yeah. One more thing. A few years ago when I had a problem with my line and was with UTV at the time the Eircom engineer came out and actually put in a new cable to the road. Spent a fair bit of time sorting it out. So the guys on the ground, once you treat them with some respect and don't blame them for the whole Eircom ripoff, are dead sound.

PogMoThoin

Valentia wrote: »

Oh yeah. One more thing. A few years ago when I had a problem with my line and was with UTV at the time the Eircom engineer came out and actually put in a new cable to the road. Spent a fair bit of time sorting it out. So the guys on the ground, once you treat them with some respect and don't blame them for the whole Eircom ripoff, are dead sound.

Yes, Joe Soap the Eircom engineer is probably a very nice helpful guy, buy dont forget Eircom has changed hands a few times in the last few years and is now owned by an Australian company who couldn't give a shít about your line.

Fingleberries

Fingleberries wrote:

noise margin downstream: 6 db
output power upstream: 11 db
attenuation downstream: 63 db

WAN Port Statistics:
Link Status: Up
Upstream Speed: 256 kbps
Downstream Speed: 1024 kbps

Praetorian wrote: »

Yours stats are terrible Fingleberries. Could be internal wiring in your house. Try and connect to the first socket in the house. Make sure you have filters on all other sockets, have you got sky plugged up to your phone system? An alarm phone system? Try a shorter cable from the first socket to the dsl modem.

Hmm. The Router (a Zyxel 660HW jobbie from BT) is plugged into the first socket. We don't have Sky and I'm not sure if the Alarm system is hooked up to the phone, I don't think so, though. It's actually connected using a splitter so we can hook up the phone, too. It's the one that came with the router - could that be introducing interference? Can you buy them seperately and would a more expensive one make a difference?

All this time, I thought my bad internet connection was because I was using a wireless network, and noises on the phone were because I had a cheap wireless connection.

Would it be worth getting BT / Eircom to do a line check, too? I saw earlier in this thread that someone suggested doing that with UTV.