[Eircom & Resellers..BT, UTV etc] ADSL Speed upgrade to 8MB discussion...ongoing

Bodan

For the purposed speed increases, Eircom does not need to upgrade to Adsl 2 for the majority of customers. Shamelessly taken from Wiki



Hopefully we will be upgraded soon.

AlmightyCushion

Bodan wrote: »

For the purposed speed increases, Eircom does not need to upgrade to Adsl 2 for the majority of customers. Shamelessly taken from Wiki



Hopefully we will be upgraded soon.

I'm pretty sure that the max for adsl is 8Mbps and for that you'd have to be right next to the exchange to get. The further you go from the exchange the lower the max speed you'll be able to get. I'd say the 7Mbps and above packages will be on adsl2.

Praetorian

Bodan wrote: »

For the purposed speed increases, Eircom does not need to upgrade to Adsl 2 for the majority of customers. Shamelessly taken from Wiki



Hopefully we will be upgraded soon.

Technically you are correct, but I have it on good authority now that they are doing the upgrades with ADSL2+ technology accross the country. In the majority of cases the line quality isn't sufficient for these upgrades via adsl1 tech. We have a lot of very old copper. Hope my sources aren't wrong

kaizersoze

Skyuser wrote: »

If the new 3Meg line is gonna be 7.6Meg then every exchange will have to be upgraded. How will that be done by June?

This wasn't just decided today. The upgrade work has been going on for a couple of months already. In the majority of exchanges, the upgrade to adsl2+ only requires a firmware upgrade to existing equipment rather than replacement.

Bodan

I suspect both of you are right. If the price changes in March, supposedly the speed increases will begin around then! What’s the point in making a speed increase announcement 5 months ahead of schedule if not only to torture us!!

Iago

Praetorian wrote: »

Technically you are correct, but I have it on good authority now that they are doing the upgrades with ADSL2+ technology accross the country. In the majority of cases the line quality isn't sufficient for these upgrades via adsl1 tech. We have a lot of very old copper. Hope my sources aren't wrong

this won't change with adsl2+, the new adsl2+ platform will upgrade the network connections, it won't change anything on the line to your home. If the copper quality is bad adsl2+ is not going to resolve that for you.

the limitation of adsl1 is a maximum downstream of 8Mbps as mentioned earlier in the thread, if you can get that speed on your line it doesn't matter whether it's on the adsl1 or adsl2+ equipment. So my guess is that adsl2+ will be for the speeds above 8Mbps, and anything from 8Mbps down will stay on the existing platforms.

AlmightyCushion

Iago wrote: »

this won't change with adsl2+, the new adsl2+ platform will upgrade the network connections, it won't change anything on the line to your home. If the copper quality is bad adsl2+ is not going to resolve that for you.

the limitation of adsl1 is a maximum downstream of 8Mbps as mentioned earlier in the thread, if you can get that speed on your line it doesn't matter whether it's on the adsl1 or adsl2+ equipment. So my guess is that adsl2+ will be for the speeds above 8Mbps, and anything from 8Mbps down will stay on the existing platforms.

Yes but because the line is using adsl2 it will be able to get higher speeds. For example my line is capable of around 4Mbps on adsl, on adsl2 it's capable of around 14Mbps.

Praetorian

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yes but because the line is using adsl2 it will be able to get higher speeds. For example my line is capable of around 4Mbps on adsl, on adsl2 it's capable of around 14Mbps.

Exactly

Iago

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yes but because the line is using adsl2 it will be able to get higher speeds. For example my line is capable of around 4Mbps on adsl, on adsl2 it's capable of around 14Mbps.

That's not completely true, there are a number of factors that dictate what speed your line is capable of.

It's entirely possible that if your line is capable of around 4Mbps on adsl, it will only be capable of around 4Mbps on adsl2+ as well.

However if your line was capable of receiving 14Mbps you would only ever get a maximum of 8Mbps on an adsl1 service, whereas with adsl2+ you could get the full 14Mbps.

Peanut

Bodan wrote: »

I suspect both of you are right. If the price changes in March, supposedly the speed increases will begin around then! What’s the point in making a speed increase announcement 5 months ahead of schedule if not only to torture us!!

Yep it sounds like they will be rolled out during the next 4 weeks, if the prices change from the start of March, you would expect that it would be mostly done by then.

Also like you say, publicly announcing an upgrade and then not implementing it quickly would annoy the punters quite a bit.

AlmightyCushion

Iago wrote: »

That's not completely true, there are a number of factors that dictate what speed your line is capable of.

It's entirely possible that if your line is capable of around 4Mbps on adsl, it will only be capable of around 4Mbps on adsl2+ as well.

However if your line was capable of receiving 14Mbps you would only ever get a maximum of 8Mbps on an adsl1 service, whereas with adsl2+ you could get the full 14Mbps.

Yes it is true. I don't think there is a single person in the entire world that can get 8Mbps on adsl1 because you would have to be literally right beside the exchange and have a perfect line to get that speed.

The speed your line is capable of on adsl1 and adsl2 are completely different things. Just because I can get 14Mbps on adsl2 doesn't mean I can get the full 8Mbps on adsl1. I can only get around the 4Mbps mark. Also, just because my line is limited to only 4Mbps on adsl1 doesn't mean it's limited to 4Mbps on adsl2.

Iago

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yes it is true. I don't think there is a single person in the entire world that can get 8Mbps on adsl1 because you would have to be literally right beside the exchange and have a perfect line to get that speed.

The speed your line is capable of on adsl1 and adsl2 are completely different things. Just because I can get 14Mbps on adsl2 doesn't mean I can get the full 8Mbps on adsl1. I can only get around the 4Mbps mark.

The predominant infrastructure in Ireland is unfortunately copper based, iand poor copper at that, f you upgrade every exchange in the country with adsl2+ equipment that doesn't change the underlying quality of the copper leaving the exchange and going into your home.

If you have line attenuation of say 50dB on your copper line, you are never getting 14Mbps through adsl2+ equipment at the local exchange. Regardless of being able to get 4Mbps or higher on adsl1. Changing the local exchange equipment will increase the highest attainable speed for lines within a certain distance of the exchange with a given attenuation level, that's it.

AlmightyCushion

Iago wrote: »

The predominant infrastructure in Ireland is unfortunately copper based, iand poor copper at that, f you upgrade every exchange in the country with adsl2+ equipment that doesn't change the underlying quality of the copper leaving the exchange and going into your home.

True, I never denied that.

Iago wrote: »

If you have line attenuation of say 50dB on your copper line, you are never getting 14Mbps through adsl2+ equipment at the local exchange. Regardless of being able to get 4Mbps or higher on adsl1. Changing the local exchange equipment will increase the highest attainable speed for lines within a certain distance of the exchange with a given attenuation level, that's it.

Yes I know the snr and your attenuation determine your speed. But moving from adsl1 to adsl2 gives better speeds with the same attenuation and snr. It doesn't affect your attenuation or snr it just gives you better speeds with that attenuation and snr.
I seriously doubt they'll be offering people the 7Mbps package on anything but adsl2 exchanges.

dan99989

Sorry if this is a double post, but just found this on eircom.ie -

http://business.eircom.net/broadband/packages/12Mb/11943340

Interesting, I'm in Bray so plan to call in the morning!

supervixen

dan99989 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a double post, but just found this on eircom.ie -

http://business.eircom.net/broadband/packages/12Mb/11943340

Interesting, I'm in Bray so plan to call in the morning!

Did you read the price tag ??:D :

12Mb Business Enhanced

€169.00

per month (ex VAT)

Are you interested? Please contact your account manager or call 1800 242 558

daveyjoe

Iago wrote: »

If you have line attenuation of say 50dB on your copper line...

It is likely that you will be able to get and maintain substantially better throughput with adsl2 (when compared to legacy adsl) while using the same phone line. The adsl2 standard simply uses more of the frequency band than adsl (afaik, adsl2 algorithms also handle attenuation in the phone line better).

Can we put this one to bed now?

dan99989

supervixen wrote: »

Did you read the price tag ??:D :

12Mb Business Enhanced

€169.00

per month (ex VAT)

Are you interested? Please contact your account manager or call 1800 242 558

Uh oh - didn't see that part... Still, I share with 3 others so split, thats not TOOOOO bad. Dammit, I'm just trying to justify getting a 12meg!

Stephen

free upgrades for the win! I'm a lowly 2Mb user but 3 will be nice. Going from 3 to 7.6 looks to be the sweet spot for value for money!

Gonzo

Im still amused at the 7.6 figure, why did tey not go for 7 or 8?

Alun

Spear wrote: »

Yes you will need one, but all the Eircom modems for the last few years have included ADSL2+ support anyway. Only the older ones will need swapping.

Mine's simply a modem, not a combined router/modem. It's A Zyxel Prestige 645 which was Eircom standard issue at the time (June 2003!).

Considering they're giving away wireless adsl routers at the moment, and I've been a customer of theirs for 5 years in the meantime, I'd hope they'd be forthcoming with a free replacement then.

christophicus

Hmmm UPC are really going to have to get the finger out now. I am interested to see what kind of speeds they will offer as I am assuming they are going to try and do something to counter this . I would imagine it will be something slightly worse then Smarts package.

jor el

Alun wrote: »

Mine's simply a modem, not a combined router/modem. It's A Zyxel Prestige 645 which was Eircom standard issue at the time (June 2003!).

The 645 is a Router too, not wireless, but still a router. It's not ADSL2+ compatible though, so you'll need a newer one.

kaizersoze

Eircoms upgrade timetable.

dan99989

kaizersoze wrote: »

Eircoms upgrade timetable.

Thanks for this!

Alun

jor el wrote: »

The 645 is a Router too, not wireless, but still a router.

No it isn't. It's a modem. There were two ZyXel 645's a 645M and a 645R, this is a 645M ... three guesses what the M stands for

Gonzo

june is a long way off!!!! however im really liking the sounds of that 672k upload! could be helpfull to gamers maybe shaving another miliisecond or 2 off the pings.

jor el

Alun wrote: »

three guesses what the M stands for

Muppet, Mope, Miserable shower of feckers in eircom giving you a crap modem? My money's on the last one.

Since the upgrade is not going to be implemented till June, you have plenty of time to harass eircom into giving you a new one.

yoyo

Gonzo wrote: »

Im still amused at the 7.6 figure, why did tey not go for 7 or 8?

I'm wondering that too...

Nick

TheBazman

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Great news indeed for everyone WITH Broadband already; I'm pleased for all yiz....... genuinely I am!

But, not putting a damper on things or anything, this does increase yet further the discrepancy between the "Haves" and the "Have-Nots". It is dispiriting and soul-destroying for those still condemned to the hell of dial-up to realise that the chasm in speed difference is to be further increased.

Agreed - it bugs me the way even the media are coming out with statements like " the issue has now moved on from that of access to that of speed and price". Ah ..no it hasnt. I suppose at least these upgrades do mean that when my exchange eventually gets enabled I will be able to avail of the 100mb speed that will be available then (prob around the year 2020)

zugvogel

TheBazman wrote: »

Agreed - it bugs me the way even the media are coming out with statements like " the issue has now moved on from that of access to that of speed and price". Ah ..no it hasnt. I suppose at least these upgrades do mean that when my exchange eventually gets enabled I will be able to avail of the 100mb speed that will be available then (prob around the year 2020)

Also agree with that. Up till a month ago I couldn't get DSL. Had tried everything - wireless, 3, Vodafone etc. The day the exchange went DSL live I ordered a 2mbit bundle which is more than enough for tele-working, and in due course it will be 3mbit. I live in a rural area and there will still be plenty of people around here who won't be able to get DSL either because they're too far from the exchange or on a carrier line. It’s a totally unfair situation, especially given the fact that many state/public bodies are encouraging people/businesses to use e-services like motor tax online, planning online, revenue online and so on the one hand, and yet on the other are doing very little by way of solid work in making the service available to all.

Zug

Creamy Goodness

Gonzo wrote: »

june is a long way off!!!! however im really liking the sounds of that 672k upload! could be helpfull to gamers maybe shaving another miliisecond or 2 off the pings.

that's kind of misinformed information tbh, sure the upload speed might lower ping in some cases but generally people get confused over the two of them.

i'm happy to hear about this upgrade

just looking at my line stats through my router and i'm a bit puzzled my downstream margin was never 1db. what are the rest of my stats like as i've done this stuff in college and i know about it but i don't know how high of a figure reflects on connection speed.

AlmightyCushion

Probably about 14/15Mbps.

Creamy Goodness

so my line could take 14/15Mbps?

sweet! june is too too long away, i'll have to rape college/work broadband until then so

Gonzo

4 long months of waiting at the earliest.... 5 months if its end of june:( Ah well at least we know its coming.

Praetorian

It's too far away, why did they bother telling us so early lol

dingding

Any word on if Smart are following this, there was a mention earlier in the thread.

Praetorian

Looks like Smart are going to give people whatever their lines are capable of if they are on the top package. So possibly 20m/bit if your lucky enough to be near your exchange. Apparently they are going to make an announcment soon enough. But so few people can take advantage and their rollout will take 100 years at their present speed.

Spear

Praetorian wrote: »

Looks like Smart are going to give people whatever their lines are capable of if they are on the top package. So possibly 20m/bit if your lucky enough to be near your exchange. Apparently they are going to make an announcment soon enough. But so few people can take advantage and their rollout will take 100 years at their present speed.

There's been no actual speed increases yet or even announced. What they've done is allow everyones modem to sync at the maximum rate possible, but still kept the allowed bandwidth to whatever the subscribed package is.

Kinetic^

kaizersoze wrote: »

Eircoms upgrade timetable.

Upload speeds are still shìt!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Praetorian

Kenny 5 wrote: »

Upload speeds are still shìt!!!!!! :rolleyes:

I don't think so, they are pretty close to the maximum and they have to have some difference between the different packages.

Gonzo

im very pleased about those uploads speeds, the new upload on the 7.6meg package is faster than what my download was when i got broadband first only 3 years ago.

kenny11

How come no mention of increases to download allownance yet,

ardmacha

From the wholesale prices here,

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/dynamic/pdf/bitpricelistv3.9_v2.pdf

there is only a small decrease in the 1Mb product (80c) with almost a €6 decrease in the 3Mb product. Presumably these decreases offer scope for a decline in retail rates so that you could get your 3Mb speed increased one and a half times while paying slightly less!

Probably there won't be much of a retail decrease in the 1Mb services, but the gap in cost with faster services will be reduced, so many people like me will probably pay the extra €5 or so to get 3Mb rather than 1Mb.

I wonder too if UTV will pull their new contract stunt if we are to get a new rate.

Creamy Goodness

think about it, you're annoucing something that are saying is brilliant, from eircom's point of view it looks like "look at us, aren't we brilliant, all this extra with no extra cost to the customer" they'd ruin it if they mentioned download caps or how it's about 5 years too late.

yoyo

Cremo wrote: »

think about it, you're annoucing something that are saying is brilliant, from eircom's point of view it looks like "look at us, aren't we brilliant, all this extra with no extra cost to the customer" they'd ruin it if they mentioned download caps or how it's about 5 years too late.

Lol Cremo, Brilliantly said , The caps will be in small print whenever eircom bother to roll out these upgrades and send that on a letter (like they done in the past) when we got upgrades done

Nick

Creamy Goodness

no i'm sure they won't be in small print they'll be there under each package but it's just common business practice.

ie, at the recent macworld you didn't hear steve jobs saying that the macbook air has a non user changeable battery.

when you do press releases you do nothing that can negetively effect your company. every company does it and the fact that eircom can actually pull that off should be more surprising than not mentioning the caps.

Praetorian

I can't believe believe people still mention the word cap. It's really very silly because Eircom have been phenomenally good over the years for not charging people when they could have. SO LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, EIRCOM DO NOT CHARGE FOR GOING OVER CAPS, UNLESS YOU REALLY TAKE THE PI$$. It has been mentioned probably 50 times over the last two years.

daveyjoe

Praetorian wrote: »

I can't believe believe people still mention the word cap. It's really very silly because Eircom have been phenomenally good over the years for not charging people when they could have. SO LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, EIRCOM DO NOT CHARGE FOR GOING OVER CAPS, UNLESS YOU REALLY TAKE THE PI$$. It has been mentioned probably 50 times over the last two years.

This is like saying that a speed limit doesn't matter on a piece of road because there are no guards on it. If the speed limit is too low for a stretch of road then it should be changed to something more reasonable, you can't say "err, we wont bother enforcing it, so it doesn't matter".

I'd prefer if they gave us a reasonable cap and enforced it.

Sconsey

So tell me......

I have line attenuation of 50db which will just about support 1Meg, I am on a 1 Meg because of that....if my local exchange gets switched to ADSL2 can I expect to see a drop in the line attenuation? (which will allow me to buy a better package)

yoyo

A Fair Use policy like most other countries providers use would be a good idea, i.e: meaning theres no real "limit" but it wont allow you to take the absolute pi$$ and be downloading 24/7. A fair way of giving broadband imo, esp at the premium rates were currently paying!

Nick