[Eircom & Resellers..BT, UTV etc] ADSL Speed upgrade to 8MB discussion...ongoing

JackieChan

slade_x wrote: »

dont see tipperary listed at all, what exchange does tipp share? i thought we were on or own

Slade,
It looks as if your exchange is not mentioned....you are in the 'Unfortunately <enter location> is one of the few locations where an upgrade date has not been finalised' pile!!

35notout

admol wrote: »

Look at the paltry download limits as well in true Digiweb style :rolleyes:

I see IBB have also introduced DSL quotas, so Digiweb are not alone

kaizersoze

jarvis wrote: »

Are these stats o.k.?



attentication 27dB
Noise Margin 26dB




Will this allow me the full benefit f 7.6 upgrade???

Jarvis

No problem

DECEiFER

digiking wrote: »

Yeah, I'm on the killerisk exchange also i think - I'm on the business starter package 3mbit so I should hopefully be upgraded this weekend also, Fingers crossed cos i'll never forget the ordeal of getting broadband in the first place, About half the town was unable to get it for about 2 years...LOL

Here are my current stats:
Speed - 3072/384 (kbps)
Line Attenuation - 27/16 db
SN Margin (dB) - 12.50 21.00

Fingers Crossed

I live near the Esso station on the Killerisk Road in Tralee, very very close to that eircom building. I'd assume that is the Killerisk exchange, as my Line Attenuation is like 2 or 3 dB, the lowest I've ever seen!

Out of curiousity, is there another exchange in Tralee on the Oakpark Road? I saw an Eircom building there nearish to the Shell station.

I've only been living in Tralee for the last 10 months, I'm not actually from there or from Kerry at all. That's why I don't know any of this stuff for sure about Tralee.

DECEiFER

grizzly wrote: »

I've only ever had the same modem that eircom gave me last year. What other modem would people recommend if I can get the older eircom one?

I use a Linksys WAG354G. Not sure if it's sold anymore, but damn, it's one good router. In-fact, anything by Linksys has always impressed me. Steer clear of Netgear, that's for sure. They drop more connections than bird drops **** after some Mexican leftovers.

Digiweb have also updated their Residential DSL page:
http://www.digiweb.ie/home/dsl

Gonzo

an extra 50 Euro for an Extra 2.4meg over the 7.6meg package!!!! Madness!!!!

irishgeo

i on the castlebar exchange which has been upgraded to adsl2+

whats it going to mean to me.

i have a 3MB utv sub and its still on 3mb.

anyone know what utv when utv are going to roll this out.

slade_x

slade_x wrote: »

but what kind of bandwidth allowance do you get for €40 from ntl

No official cap specified, the usual "subject to fair use" applies.

DECEiFER

irishgeo wrote: »

i on the castlebar exchange which has been upgraded to adsl2+

whats it going to mean to me.

i have a 3MB utv sub and its still on 3mb.

anyone know what utv when utv are going to roll this out.

Looks like your exchange is on the unsure list. Your upgrade may be rolled out in September, possibly later. Email press_office@eircom.ie to find out for sure. UTV aren't responsible for the phone lines, Eircom are. They are the ones who roll out the upgrades.

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You are at 2 miles then. My theory is that a Netopia 2247 runs very hot from 2 miles out indicating a stressed component(s) somewhere . I have not tested this theory empirically with thermal probes mind

If nothing else it indicates that it could fail sooner than a close in Netopia . Heat is bad.

I take it both are well ventilated ( NOT STUFFED IN A TIGHT CORNER)

That margin change is , frankly , HUGE . 7/8 is the lowest margin that will give you a stable connection while 25 is very comfortable.

No, both of them have plenty of air on the desk. The 2247 is a truly lousy router and I wonder why Eircom still supply them- would they not have noticed the terrible SN margins causing trouble by now?
I remember the 3347nwg actually showed an snr of 28 when we first got broadband so I wonder if I got a new router this would improve even more. Which brand of router is known for good snr?

slade_x

theres another thing im curious about, are eircom adding new exchanges to contented areas, like big towns and cities or will they be expanding their range by offering broadband to those who are currently too far a way from an exchange

The amount of people on 3G (vodafone/o2/3 pay) complaining is getting very annoying

I seem to have found a map of exchanges from 2006:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/systems/DSL/Ireland-DSL-35Percent-enabled.png

rc28

Anyone know if Eircom will be changing the cap or prices on the new packages? Digiweb aren't so I suppose Eircom wont be either. 48euro plus line rental for 7mb is still a rip off IMO

Demondaze

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3072 kbps 384 kbps
Line Attenuation 41.0 db 21.5 db
Noise Margin 19.4 db 18.0 db

With line attentuation like that I guess the upgrade mightn't be the best for me!

Sponge Bob

They are adding new exchanges slowly in the big cities mainly . They do not enable them as standard for ADSL either .

READ THIS EXPLANATION OF WHAT STATS TELL YOU !! especially if on a 3mbit line .

Anyone with margin of 25db+ and stable 3mbit should get the 7.6 upgrade or near enough.

You lose about 4db-5db per megabit of upgrade

25db margin now should be 5db at worst after the upgrade , tight that .
8db is the recommended floor and after that you may have problems.

In other words 3mbits to 7.6mbits will require that you have 18-24Db of margin to spare thereby leaving you with no less than 8Db after the upgrade so thats either 18+8 = 26Db or 24+8=32Db ....between 26db and 32Db NOW.

If you have 20db margin , or less, today on a 3mbit line you will NOT get 7.6Mbit stable on that line with THAT modem unless you do something .

If your margin is 10-12db AND with a stable 3mbit today (pre upgrade) my advice is to drop down to the 2mbit package and save yourself some money, no tweaking or fiddling will get you to 7.6mb stable save what RC28 said about the Netopia Margin jumping way up with another modem. The Netopia will NOT do it.

If over 15db margin then maybe try to up the margin by working through this information below systematically, try step 4 first as its easy and quick

Kitz recommends the following modems if you are having Margin ( SNR they call it) issues .

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm

There are 4 angles of attack alone or in combination , I quote Kitz on 2 of them , 2 and 3.

1. Disconnect ALL Internal wiring and use the main socket only for data , the socket supplied by eircom .

2 and 3 from the Kitz link. They are Check / Change Router and Check / Change Filter

• Routers are known to provide a more stable connection than usb modems and the purchase of an adsl router has done the trick for many.
• Be aware that some routers do perform better than others on Low SNR Lines, and although there is no guarantee, it is something very well worth trying.The Speedtouch 585 + 576, Netgear DG834, Westell 6100, D-Link DSL-G604T are some routers that have specifically been known to maintain a more stable connection on a low SNR line.
• ~ The Netgear DG834 and DG834G have a very good reputation for being able to hold on to a connection at low SNR. I personally have seen one hang on to a line that frequently drops to 0dB (and below). Other users of the DG834G have reported similar. There's also a few instances where it worked when others wouldn't URL="http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=402.msg12226#msg12226"]link[/URL
  ~ The D-Link DSL-G604T has also been reported* to successfully stabilise a low SNR line which was about to be declared as incapable of supporting adsl. URL="http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=402.msg12228#msg12228"]link[/URL.
  ~ Most Speedtouch routers seem to work well on long lines and have a good reputation
• Adsl Filters. Make sure your filters are fitted correctly. Fit good quality filters, some definitely are better than others - adslnation carries an article which shows the difference in between some filters. Or better still...

4. If you do not use the phone line for Voice calls, DISCONNECT THE FILTER and plug the DSL router straight in , what does that do for your margin when you try it people ????

If nothing else a good result for test 4 logically tells you your must try 3 if you do need it for voice .

yoyo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They are adding new exchanges slowly in the big cities mainly . They do not enable them as standard for ADSL either .

READ THIS EXPLANATION OF WHAT STATS TELL YOU !! especially if on a 3mbit line .

Anyone with margin of 25db+ and stable 3mbit should get the 7.6 upgrade or near enough.

You lose about 4db-5db per megabit of upgrade

25db margin now should be 5db at worst after the upgrade , tight that .
8db is the recommended floor and after that you may have problems.

In other words 3mbits to 7.6mbits will require that you have 18-24Db of margin to spare thereby leaving you with no less than 8Db after the upgrade so thats either 18+8 = 26Db or 24+8=32Db ....between 26db and 32Db NOW.

If you have 20db margin , or less, today on a 3mbit line you will NOT get 7.6Mbit stable on that line with THAT modem unless you do something .

If your margin is 10-12db AND with a stable 3mbit today (pre upgrade) my advice is to drop down to the 2mbit package and save yourself some money, no tweaking or fiddling will get you to 7.6mb stable save what RC28 said about the Netopia Margin jumping way up with another modem. The Netopia will NOT do it.

If over 15db margin then maybe try to up the margin by working through this information below systematically, try step 4 first as its easy and quick

Kitz recommends the following modems if you are having Margin ( SNR they call it) issues .

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm

There are 4 angles of attack alone or in combination , I quote Kitz on 2 of them , 2 and 3.

1. Disconnect ALL Internal wiring and use the main socket only for data , the socket supplied by eircom .

2 and 3 from the Kitz link. They are Check / Change Router and Check / Change Filter

• Routers are known to provide a more stable connection than usb modems and the purchase of an adsl router has done the trick for many.
• Be aware that some routers do perform better than others on Low SNR Lines, and although there is no guarantee, it is something very well worth trying.The Speedtouch 585 + 576, Netgear DG834, Westell 6100, D-Link DSL-G604T are some routers that have specifically been known to maintain a more stable connection on a low SNR line.
• ~ The Netgear DG834 and DG834G have a very good reputation for being able to hold on to a connection at low SNR. I personally have seen one hang on to a line that frequently drops to 0dB (and below). Other users of the DG834G have reported similar. There's also a few instances where it worked when others wouldn't URL="http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=402.msg12226#msg12226"]link[/URL
  ~ The D-Link DSL-G604T has also been reported* to successfully stabilise a low SNR line which was about to be declared as incapable of supporting adsl. URL="http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=402.msg12228#msg12228"]link[/URL.
  ~ Most Speedtouch routers seem to work well on long lines and have a good reputation
• Adsl Filters. Make sure your filters are fitted correctly. Fit good quality filters, some definitely are better than others - adslnation carries an article which shows the difference in between some filters. Or better still...

4. If you do not use the phone line for Voice calls, DISCONNECT THE FILTER and plug the DSL router straight in , what does that do for your margin when you try it people ????

If nothing else a good result for test 4 logically tells you your must try 3 if you do need it for voice .

If thats true UPC here I come, :rolleyes:

Nick

Sponge Bob

If what is true, you quoted the whole bledy thing , can you edit to be specific ??

What did step 4 do before and after . Do that first, disconnect everything particularly sky boxes and plug the modem into the main socket with no filter.

Give us stats !!!!

yoyo wrote: »

If thats true UPC here I come, :rolleyes:

Nick

rc28

An important post from SpongeBob that everyone should read but I do think that people with the silver Netopia 2247 (that Eircom supply) should look into getting a new router if they want a stable connection as it is a sh*t model. I'd say it will cause Eircom a lot of hassle in the next month with customers suffering from disconnects.

Sconsey

Sponge Bob wrote: »

[*]Be aware that some routers do perform better than others on Low SNR Lines, and although there is no guarantee, it is something very well worth trying.The Speedtouch 585 + 576, Netgear DG834, Westell 6100, D-Link DSL-G604T are some routers that have specifically been known to maintain a more stable connection on a low SNR line.

[*] ~ The Netgear DG834 and DG834G have a very good reputation for being able to hold on to a connection at low SNR. I personally have seen one hang on to a line that frequently drops to 0dB (and below). Other users of the DG834G have reported similar. There's also a few instances where it worked when others wouldn't URL="http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=402.msg12226#msg12226"]link[/URL

~ The D-Link DSL-G604T has also been reported* to successfully stabilise a low SNR line which was about to be declared as incapable of supporting adsl. URL="http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=402.msg12228#msg12228"]link[/URL.

Yup, speaking from experience....I was using the Creative modem that UTV supply and having a hard time maintaining connection on a 1Mb line. I got the D-Link DSL-G604T and it made a big difference, no more random disconnects. I am now on a 2Mb package with terrible line stats but the little modem is managing to maintain the conection

53dB attenuation and SNR of 8 :eek:

Sponge Bob

rc28 wrote: »

An important post from spongebob that everyone should read but I do think that people with the silver Netopia 2247 (that Eircom supply) should look into getting a new router if they want a stable connection as it is a sh*t model.

Well I was actually quoting you on that because you got a 15db+ jump on the margin by changing it. That's 3mbits extra speed right away .

We all agree its not the Mae West piece of tech out there although it should be fine in many cases .

Our advice to consider another router , and the examples in my post, also apply equally if your margin is low on a 1mbit line , say anywhere over 3 miles out from the exchange.

You must have 8Db of margin for a stable connection , whatever the speed.

yoyo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If what is true, you quoted the whole bledy thing , can you edit to be specific ??

What did step 4 do before and after . Do that first, disconnect everything particularly sky boxes and plug the modem into the main socket with no filter.

Give us stats !!!!

3 Meg Line Business one

SNR: 13.50Db
Attn: 34.50Db

I.e I'm sick of having enhanced Dial up still :rolleyes: , I can barely watch a youtube vid or anything without it pausing a bit, I do get full 3 meg download speed aswell using a dl manager

Nick

Demondaze

Ah balls.

I knew something would end up spoiling the upgrade for me, heh!

And I can't even drop down to 2mb without incurring a charge from UTV...

I guess I'll wait and see what happens after the upgrade and if the connection goes tits up or becomes unbearable maybe getting on to UTV and complaining will get them to drop me down without the charge.

CivilServant

My line stats are 34db attenuation/ 0-12db SN. Though I do have the DG834. On 3mbit and get 325kB with the line fully loaded. So theorectical max for 3mbit is 384kB, the line is capable of 85% of max, which is pretty good. About 1.5km - 2km away from the exchange as the crow flies, so it might be a bit more than that. Would expect to get around 85% of the 7.6 when it comes.

yoyo

CivilServant wrote: »

My line stats are 34db attenuation/ 0-12db SN. Though I do have the DG834. On 3mbit and get 325kB with the line fully loaded. So theorectical max for 3mbit is 384kB, the line is capable of 85% of max, which is pretty good. About 1.5km - 2km away from the exchange as the crow flies, so it might be a bit more than that. Would expect to get around 85% of the 7.6 when it comes.

Really :eek:, I must admit I thought it was around 340kb max for a 3 meg line, So I dont get max outta it

Nick

jimmeh

I Had a dlink 604 router that couldnt manage to achieve anything over 8db snr, I changed to a netgeat dg834 and get anything from 12 to 24 snr depending on what the weathers like and what mode i force it to. I have also redone internal wiring with cat5e and XTF 85 socket microfilter. The netgear is also picking up adsl2 framing on my line but im unsure as to what this means.

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 384 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3072 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 14.3 17.0
Attn(dB): 47.0 26.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 2.1
Max(Kbps): 6432 1120
Rate (Kbps): 3072 384

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 1
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 384 Kbps, Downstream rate = 3072 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: T1.413
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 21.8 26.0
Attn(dB): 47.0 26.0
Pwr(dBm): 19.6 11.8
Max(Kbps): 6912 1052
Rate (Kbps): 3072 384

Sponge Bob

Demondaze wrote: »

I guess I'll wait and see what happens after the upgrade and if the connection goes tits up or becomes unbearable maybe getting on to UTV and complaining will get them to drop me down without the charge.

Eircom will offer free downgrades for marginal 3mbit customers who can go no faster so UTV would be taking the piss if they passed on a charge that does not exist .

Psygnosis

I have just got broadband and the only stats I can find are as follows
Line Attenuation
51/31 dB

I can't seem to find noise margin anywhere its the netopia 2 series modem/wireless you get with eircom

rc28

Psygnosis wrote: »

I have just got broadband and the only stats I can find are as follows
Line Attenuation
51/31 dB

I can't seem to find noise margin anywhere its the netopia 2 series modem/wireless you get with eircom

On the home page of the router, click the 'troubleshoot' link on the left column, then 'statistics', then 'DSL'.

Psygnosis

Ok cheers here you go
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 1024 128 SN Margin (dB) 16.50 21.00 Line Attenuation (dB) 51.50 31.50 CRC Errors 0 1

gordonnet

with the stats below what should i expect ?

SN Margin (dB) 7.50 20.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 49.00 29.00

Speed
2048/256 (kbps)

Im currently on Eircom Home Plus (2M), if the eircom press release is accurate my exchange (douglas )is being upgraded on the weekend of the 26th July

rc28

gordonnet wrote: »

with the stats below what should i expect ?

Max Allowed Speed
2048 256 SN Margin (dB) 7.50 20.00 Line Attenuation (dB) 49.00 29.00

Put your stats(downstream attenuation and SN only) into the following and you will find out- SN margin appears to be most important in dictating what your line is capable of;
http://212.23.23.177/adsl/default.aspx