Irish shooter Digest ?

Alvin T. Grey

cavan shooter wrote: »

I for one found it interesting I got the impression that he was actually commenting on the advantages of airsoft for pistol shooters in practice and in relation to accessories which can be used by target shooters etc. I found the whole area about the 1 Joule fascinating. I also like the comment regarding the availability of world war 2 models in airsoft as I am an avid military historian.

I feel that there is a lot of crossover between the two sports also.

Now if you want to dress up in full combat rig and shoot plastic bbs behind a sealed of site away with you and enjoy it looks like great fun.
However if you are going to walk the streets dressed up like a fully kitted ranger(some eejit will) carrying an airsoft M4 with a sig strapped to his/her hip then you deserve to get hammered, I's all about a bit of common sense......Please no arguments about I can walk around the street dressed as what I please, You probabally can but suffer the consequenses

Funnily enought, thats exactly the way we feel about that situation.

My sons have BB guns €5 in a market and they have a kids army gear and they dress up and shoot bbs at each other (no harm) there cousins aren't allowed anything like that. Their Mother argues that it desensitises the kids and makes it easier to kill:eek: Flawed argument? There is room for both sports

Make sure they wear eye protection. Those things won't damage them, but it's not an experience you'ld want to repeat.:D

Sikamick

[/QUOTE]

RE: Air soft not wanting to be associated with RS
To be honest, and Iv nothing against RS shooters at all. Infact quite the opposite, Iv been toying with the idea of target shooting for a few years now, but the reason I (personally) dont want Airsoft related with RS for now is because Ireland tend to have this perception of anything gun-shaped as it being straight out bad. Therefore we use the fact our Airsoft are essentially harmless as our number one defense. If we were to align ourselves with RS this would blur the line a bit for too many "Joe Soaps", and lets face it,(as you guys know all too well) fact isnt always what these people use in their debates!

_________________________________________________________________

I would never try to knock any other persons sport and maybe I should be directing this question to CAL, as to why this one item was put into the article (Fallujah) This is not a good image to attach to any of the shooting sports.

The original question was re the article. The uniforms and tactics and this word (Fallujah) has to give a bad image to any of the sports.

Also maybe the author might answer these questions. Why use the word (Fallujah) and put a picture of a real steel in the article, This is not a good portrayal of the sport of air soft.

Again I emphasise there is nothing wrong with the sport Air Soft and most of the people involved.

Maybe the IAA or whoever commissioned the article should have asked to see a proof of the article before it went to print, this would have saved a lot of embarrassment and misinformation.

Sikamick

Harekin wrote: »

RE: Airsoft Sites being used to train by "undesirables"
In my opinion this is a moot point simply for the reason its just paintball with more realistic looking "equipment". To attack Airsoft in this way would be the same as trying to attack "Woodsball". Plus as said you can learn the "tactics" used in Airsoft at Paintball sites, on the internet, in books, in shooting video games, etc.

_________________________________________________________________

I agree with some of what you say, But there is a need in all the shooting sports, Real steel / air soft / paint ball and any other that I might not have mentioned for self policing to make sure that the wrong people are kept out.

Our club have had in the past had to dismiss and refuse undesirables.

I am sure there is a lot of clubs have had to turn people away just for similar reasons.

Harekin

To be completly honest with you Sikamick I cant disagree with you about your opinions on the article. I also think maybe showing some Airsofters the article before it went to print and asking them opinions, etc probably would've been a better idea than just printing it with above said words in it. They also printed pictures of people in Irish DPM which was also a stupid and potentially dangerous mistake.

Regarding a vetting procedure amongst skirmishers. Thing about this is on the whole were a pretty close knit group with pretty much everyone knowing pretty much everyone else at the site, so for now at least its somewhat unnecessary. We've sent away undesirables at the sites before for the usual sort of stupid, reckless and just general gob$h1t€ behaviour. We're very critical about the perception of our sport and I personally having invested many many thousands of euro into my retail business dont want to see it ruined!

Sikamick

Quote:
Regarding a vetting procedure amongst skirmishers. Thing about this is on the whole were a pretty close knit group with pretty much everyone knowing pretty much everyone else at the site, so for now at least its somewhat unnecessary. We've sent away undesirables at the sites before for the usual sort of stupid, reckless and just general gob$h1t€ behaviour. We're very critical about the perception of our sport and I personally having invested many many thousands of euro into my retail business dont want to see it ruined!
_________________________________________________________________

And I hope some fool out there does'nt ruin it either for you or the honest Air soft dealers or the people involved in the sport of Air soft.

We in the real steel target shooting and hunting have waited for 35 years to get what we have and are still battleing with the powers that be to iron out some problems that still exsist.

I think this thread/debait has been good for Air soft and for real steel shooters to get an understanding of your sport. Whether we like it or not there is and will be a crossover between the sports whether on boards or though publcatins/media.

Lets hope the next artical will give a clearer picture on you sport.

Keep up the good work and be safe in you sport.

Best of luck

Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club
aka Sikamick

Repeating Henry

Motosam, good to see you have taken comments made in the right spirit. Like Cal from the Digest I dont know much about your sport. Playing Devils advocate can hopefully allay any fears the public might have.

For clarification if the Digest runs more articles in the future put up at the start of the article a warning that the firearms / weapons depicted here are not firearms but replicas. Airsoft Magazines, no such need to do this is needed obviously. The lesson if you mix Steel & plastic make the distinction clear.

You advise it is best to be a member of a club, good advice. If summer camping in the wicklow mountains some of your members decide to do a bit of informal night exercises without informing the locals or Garda. Do you have any disciplinary procedures as part of your rules.

Steel V plastic. Some comments made previously are of the opinion that the criminal will opt for steel rather than plastic. The hardened criminal yes but the petty ordinary decent one who has a drug problem who wants something convincing to keep the shopkeeper at bay or get the baseball bat
if he pulls a knife. A replica firearm can induce the same fear as the real thing can be bought and used all in the same day if Airsoft can be bought that easily then this should be policed by the sport and tightened up.


Tactical training. Can you clear up as to what takes place. Using cars as shields opperating in teams that sort of thing. The fear is if this sport is not standardized by rules cowboy operators might do something more advanced and attract the wrong type of customer that in the end will effect us all.


Best of luck enjoy your sport!

Rew

Its very sad to see Airsoft getting attacked by shooters who have been attacked on the same points.

Airsofts were imported in to Ireland long berfore they were legal. If Criminals petty or not wnat them they will get them. Some toy guns in Smyths are as a real looking to the average punter. Its the same argument we put forward on handguns. The legal ones arn't the problem...

If people camping want to have a game on public land will they be punished by their club? Do gun clubs track down those that make a hobby out of shooting road signs etc?

Tactical training is available in the Army, the RDF and privately. The quality of Airsoft tactial training would be minimal in comparison with the others.

Some poeple need to think before they post.

Sikamick

Rew wrote: »

Please Rew, read my postings and that of Repeating Henry these are questions by people that do not totally understand the sports of Air Soft.

It is not criticism of the people or the sport, I did not start the thread, but I am gaining knowledge and so are other people that are viewing.

So Please Mr. Rew don't try and close or confuse the thread and divide us.

Stercus Accidit

For clarification if the Digest runs more articles in the future put up at the start of the article a warning that the firearms / weapons depicted here are not firearms but replicas. Airsoft Magazines, no such need to do this is needed obviously. The lesson if you mix Steel & plastic make the distinction clear.

-The IAA are doing a magazine soon regarding Irish airsoft. I agree with your comment, it could confuse somebody if they opened a shooting magazine and saw a lad pointing a steyr at someone, they wouldnt know what to think.

You advise it is best to be a member of a club, good advice. If summer camping in the wicklow mountains some of your members decide to do a bit of informal night exercises without informing the locals or Garda. Do you have any disciplinary procedures as part of your rules.
-The charter explicitly bans this activity, informs its members as such also.
There are assault laws that cover this so any member brings it on themselves if they do this, they would be at the mercy of the gardai and eru. The IAA I suppose would eject such a member, and if necessary inform the authorities.
I'm just an airsofter mind you, not one of the committee.

Steel V plastic. Some comments made previously are of the opinion that the criminal will opt for steel rather than plastic. The hardened criminal yes but the petty ordinary decent one who has a drug problem who wants something convincing to keep the shopkeeper at bay or get the baseball bat
if he pulls a knife. A replica firearm can induce the same fear as the real thing can be bought and used all in the same day if Airsoft can be bought that easily then this should be policed by the sport and tightened up.
-The same can be said of many objects.
The thief in question would be taking their life in their hands, and would be prosecuted as if it were a real gun.
I personally would not prefer to be robbed with a knife or syringe.
Banning something outright is rarely the best option, there are laws in place against this anyway so really if someone is that dence they may well do it, but the only person really at risk with a robber with an airsoft is the robber himself.
Afterall, there is an availability of illegal firearms in this country among criminal gangs, replicas being used for a legitimate sport, which is played all over the world, are not the problem and banning them would be no solution.
I suppose my main argument would be its illegal, and prosecutable, beyond that there will always be people that abuse whatever liberties others have worked towards with little regard for those people, in this case legitimate Irish airsofters.
There are better arguements than mine for this but just my 2 cents.

Tactical training. Can you clear up as to what takes place. Using cars as shields opperating in teams that sort of thing. The fear is if this sport is not standardized by rules cowboy operators might do something more advanced and attract the wrong type of customer that in the end will effect us all.


-The site operators are good guys, and are contactable on this forum usually.
As usual the IAA would report any dodgy goings on if someone did start an impromptu site with no insurance.

cavan shooter

Is the point not being missed in the article , that target shooters can gain alot from air soft. He was demonstrating that a scope commonly used in airsoft can transfer accross to target shooting and quite successfully. That shooting airsoft replicas could improve your shooting and waistline:D

I don't see airsoft being attacked by shooters, I see good debate and discussion

macnas

I know it's silly but every time you mention the IAA, I'm thinkin Irish Aviation Authority, has that ever caused confusion for anyone else or just wannabe PPLs.:D

Stercus Accidit

cavan shooter wrote: »

Is the point not being missed in the article , that target shooters can gain alot from air soft. He was demonstrating that a scope commonly used in airsoft can transfer accross to target shooting and quite successfully. That shooting airsoft replicas could improve your shooting and waistline:D

I don't see airsoft being attacked by shooters, I see good debate and discussion

In reality airsoft gear isnt designed to take the shock of recoil, so would lose its zero, a red dot is limited accuracy wise enough for this not to be a massive issue on a .22, but a scope is different on a .223, it would not be great.

American shooting forums often discuss this.

Repeating Henry

Motosam, very good well delivered this is what boards is all about.
Disappointed by rew's response to my last post. Joe public / Joe Duffy
or any chat room for that matter is about the talking public so let us get
on with it, you as moderator can always butt in if things get rough and nasty has it? So sit back and take note, no one knows all the answers that goes for the moderators just as much as us the chatters. Devore feel free to comment. If my remark about a banned organization being commented upon was unfair please except my apology for any embarrassment caused, no stick was used to beat up! A slip of tongue can happen to the best of us.

Back to Motosam. Smiths toy's look just like that, a toy! Airsoft as that is the only brand I have heard of, looks the part so the consensus goes. If I can pick one up as easily as buying the news paper then Joe public gets worried. That is the basic point no scare tactic intended. If some dealers want to make profit at any cost while other dealers want to do the right thing and do it well, then this will be the guy around in ten years time
and good luck to him.

cavan shooter

Motosam wrote: »

In reality airsoft gear isnt designed to take the shock of recoil, so would lose its zero, a red dot is limited accuracy wise enough for this not to be a massive issue on a .22, but a scope is different on a .223, it would not be great.

American shooting forums often discuss this.

Agree regarding full bore, out of interest what about other bits like the rails etc are they real or plastic

Repeating Henry

Do we have a competition to see if this thread stays on top or 45 degrees
pips the post. Place your bets!

Sikamick

Motosam wrote: »

In reality airsoft gear isnt designed to take the shock of recoil, so would lose its zero, a red dot is limited accuracy wise enough for this not to be a massive issue on a .22, but a scope is different on a .223, it would not be great.

American shooting forums often discuss this.

________________________________________________________________


Motosam, Can any of the Air Soft Scopes / Optics be used on .22 target pistol/Rifle
would they be up to it.

DeVore

So far i've read all of this thread and it seems fine... civil discussion can be argumentative but so long as its respectful I don't have a problem with that. I dont think that this thread has gotten anywhere near that at the moment, I think people need to read all of it as it seems like people are getting the wrong end of the (boom)stick.

DeV.

Witcher

Motosam wrote: »

Blay I dont know if you were on the airsoft forum last time when there was an argument between members of both forums, but I was and it was unnecessary.
I think you are being a bit pedantic with the spelling, I'm sure you mean it in jest but its coming across as nit picking, even trolling as one poster previously stated.

I dont care if it comes across as nit picking, thats a person opinion and

they're entitled to it. Since when did correcting a person become pedantic?


I was on the airsoft forum at the time of the last crossover thread and it was

unnecessary. But what does that have to do with whats going on here?

I think its a positive thread too, its trashing out all the things that shooters want to know

about!



:cool::cool::cool:

Witcher

Repeating Henry wrote: »

Tactical training. Can you clear up as to what takes place. Using cars as shields opperating in teams that sort of thing. The fear is if this sport is not standardized by rules cowboy operators might do something more advanced and attract the wrong type of customer that in the end will effect us all.

Tactics can be learned anywhere! Not just in airsoft, internet, books,videos

all mediums for tactical training.

Plus the tactics learned in airsoft are in no way comparable to any police

force or army moves which are learned in training, its just simple flanking and

manouvering, they are the simplest military tactics out there and should

really be understood without any military service or ever studying tactics.

I haven't had military experience or had tactical training or played airsoft yet

but i understand simple manouveres, I've learned them from the playstation,

so you see tactics can be learned anywhere not just in a game where tactics

are used.

It would have to be someoe with military experience to do a more

advanced course which woulkd actually be of use to a criminal, and

realistically how many criminals have shootouts where they will try to flank, or use a pincer

manouver on an enemy?


:cool::cool::cool:

Sikamick

Quote =blay1 : I corrected a spelling mistake and I'm pedantic? yeah e:


_________________________________________________________________________________

I did not take any offence over the spelling, I'm a great believer in been big enough to take criticism and learn from it. My reply to you about your mistake was a wind up.

One good thing has come out of this thread people are getting some inside info from the people involved in the Air Soft Sport and it all seems very positive.

Sikamick

Witcher

Sikamick wrote: »

I did not take any offence over the spelling, I'm a great believer in been big enough to take criticism and learn from it. My reply to you about your mistake was a wind up.

One good thing has come out of this thread people are getting some inside info from the people involved in the Air Soft Sport and it all seems very positive.

Sikamick

+1 we can agree on that



:cool::cool::cool:

Sikamick

blay1 wrote: »

Tactics can be learned anywhere! Not just in airsoft, internet, books,videos

all mediums for tactical training.

Plus the tactics learned in airsoft are in no way comparable to any police

force or army moves which are learned in training, its just simple flanking and

manouvering, they are the simplest military tactics out there and should

really be understood without any military service or ever studying tactics.

cool::cool::cool:

_________________________________________________________________

Even Chess.

Can we have some more info on Air Soft, Can one use Air Soft optics on .22 target Rifle/pistol and would it work.

chem

Folks this has gone well into monty python land. Dibs on script rights

Everyone seems to half read everyone elses point of view then reply to it.

We are all so afraid to upset the PC brigade (that are useally looking over a hedge they have no right to look over in the 1st place) that we are already ahead of them on the campaign. Ban camo clothing, ban ban ban....... FROM OUR OWN SPORTS PEOPLE. How long will it be until we are marching to government office to try ban our own sports incase we offend anyone else.

I`ll leave you with this story from the UK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2242777,00.html

Stercus Accidit

blay1 wrote: »

I dont care if it comes across as nit picking,

How dare you speak to me like that!!!...

Ok, no harm done!


To the gear question,

I suppose a .22 could use a decent quality airsoft dot sight, some are better than others, alluminium etc., but are only designed for use at 20m or so, and with inherently less accurate devices to a .22 targeter.

So really you get what you pay for, there is a crossover though with some accesories, but with less rigourous use in mind, weaker materials, poorer quality control.

Some rails are cnc'd, but alot are just cast, the quality difference is why the price is so different, in some instances its worth it, sometimes not.

Basically, airsoft gear is not designed to be able to withstand recoil, not designed to be massively accurate, and is always cheaper for these reasons.

Any questions about compatibilty have been asked and answered on US forums before, so there is info available.
I'm a bit paranoid about discussing any links between real and fake though, ie equipment, just incase someone reading this thought airsoft gear bore any more than an aesthetic resemblance to real guns.

As was stated before keeping the two sports seperate is in the interest of both sports over here, with joe publics perception and some media types lurking, often with an agenda mind you.

Good to see positive interaction between both sports though.

ambro25

For all your airsoft information needs:

on Boards

Feel free to indulge in the stickies, the fruit (in plain olde English no less) of manhours upon manhours of painstaking collecting and verification of information about Airsoft and its practice in Ireland.

at the IAA's site

Feel free to indulge in the Downloads section, particularly the Press Releases.

It's just about all there, and if it's not then by all means post a thread in the Airsoft Forum, we won't bite - even digitally. But please do keep the thread O/T, about the article and its reaction amongst non-airsofters, and let's not turn this into a mish-mash of anecdotal posts progressively diluting what did start (at leaston page 1) as a very good debate.

Sikamick

Thanks to both Motosam and ambro25 for the info, I will have a look at the suggested sights.


Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club
aka Sikamick