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where is the outrage?

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    #32
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    yes, they're an impressive lot

    very civic-minded

    I'm not going to deny the criminal element of the IRA but Sinn Feinn from what I've seen in my relatively short time in this country are the ones out there trying to get some very badly needed things done. Those biased articles aren't going to take away from that.


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    #33
    Rock Climber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    I honestly don't understand sovtek how you can say that yet preach pontifically against your own country's wrong do-ings.
    Hypocrisy has come full circle.
    Dadakopf wrote:
    Actually, it was designed to expose the logical incoherence of your argument. Your argument is contradictory. I'm arguing at a completely different level discourse. That's what you've missed

    Anyway, read this. You might learn something. Broadly, this is where I'm coming from.
    What read someting from wikipedia? shur I could have wrote or edited that myself.
    And anyway with all due respects,I stopped listening to your guff when your closing response to my point of view in the other thread was to tell me to grow up,never mind the rest of the condecending.
    I think you know how many marks out of 10 that gives you for debate tbh.


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    #34
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    sovtek wrote: »
    I'm not going to deny the criminal element of the IRA but Sinn Feinn from what I've seen in my relatively short time in this country are the ones out there trying to get some very badly needed things done.

    you do realise they are one and the same?


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    #35
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Rock Climber wrote: »
    I honestly don't understand sovtek how you can say that yet preach pontifically against your own country's wrong do-ings.
    Hypocrisy has come full circle.


    I don't see what one has to do with the other.


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    #36
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    you do realise they are one and the same?

    I realize that there are criminal elements in both the party and what used to be the military wing of Sinn Fein. Same as every other mainstream polititcal party in Ireland.


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    #37
    DadaKopf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭DadaKopf


    Rock Climber wrote: »
    I honestly don't understand sovtek how you can say that yet preach pontifically against your own country's wrong do-ings.
    Hypocrisy has come full circle. What read someting from wikipedia? shur I could have wrote or edited that myself.
    And anyway with all due respects,I stopped listening to your guff when your closing response to my point of view in the other thread was to tell me to grow up,never mind the rest of the condecending.
    I think you know how many marks out of 10 that gives you for debate tbh.
    Lalalalala. Whether you could have written something on Habermas' discourse ethics or not, I don't care for you to prove. I was sharing the basis of my considered view on the matter, regardless of previous invective, and encouraging you to read it and have a think about it.

    Sovtek, I don't care much for the Independent either, but the Sinn Féin-IRA link is still there. I don't believe a party like that should be welcome in a democracy, but I also realise that this is the pound of flesh that must be paid to have peace. Apart from that, on a pure policy-level, they have little to offer right now. And I certainly don't identify with the party, and would never vote for them given their history, and present policy and party members.


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    #38
    Rock Climber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    sovtek wrote: »
    I don't see what one has to do with the other.
    Being selective on whose wrongdoings you are prepared to overlook.
    Mind you being familiar with your postings on the forum,I'm thinking to be honest that you probably arent very clued in on the whole SF/IRA thing so that would explain that :)
    Dadakopf wrote:
    Lalalalala.
    Which I was reading as,the electorate aren't inteligent/read enough to come to the same considered view as yourself.
    Newsflash: They are,most of them just dont.


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    #39
    MCMLXXXIII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭MCMLXXXIII


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    A lot of people I think politics has nothing to do with them also. During the last election I couldn't believe how many people said they wouldn't bother voting because they have no interest in it on national TV which is worse :eek: .

    ...everyone is more concerned with singers' "Cribs" or their "Super Sweet 16" birthday party.


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    #40
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Rock Climber wrote: »
    Being selective on whose wrongdoings you are prepared to overlook.
    Mind you being familiar with your postings on the forum,I'm thinking to be honest that you probably arent very clued in on the whole SF/IRA thing so that would explain that :)

    I'm not prepared to overlook one's wrongdoing but I am not going to discount a party because of some elements, especially when there the same elements in the ruling parties at the moment. I still don't see what the wrongdoings of the IRA have to do with my government's wrong doings.
    I don't claim to know a whole hell of a lot about the history of the IRA and Sinn Fein or The Troubles nor am I too close to loose all objectivity to the situation.


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    #41
    Rock Climber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    sovtek wrote: »
    I'm not prepared to overlook one's wrongdoing but I am not going to discount a party because of some elements, especially when there the same elements in the ruling parties at the moment. I still don't see what the wrongdoings of the IRA have to do with my government's wrong doings.
    I don't claim to know a whole hell of a lot about the history of the IRA and Sinn Fein or The Troubles nor am I too close to loose all objectivity to the situation.
    Sovtek.
    The entire leadership of that party applaud the IRA campaign which blew up children in warrington.
    They've presented the perpetrators of woefull atrocities at their party conferences to standing ovations.
    Are you prepared to overlook that?


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    #42
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    DadaKopf wrote: »
    Sovtek, I don't care much for the Independent either, but the Sinn Féin-IRA link is still there. I don't believe a party like that should be welcome in a democracy, but I also realise that this is the pound of flesh that must be paid to have peace. Apart from that, on a pure policy-level, they have little to offer right now. And I certainly don't identify with the party, and would never vote for them given their history, and present policy and party members.

    I'm not denying the link either. I just see that Sinn Fein do actually help the less well off more than the likes of other so called liberal parties in Ireland.
    I'm also saying that while there is a criminal element to the IRA and possibly Sinn Fein that doesn't write off everything they do. Especially when you consider the criminal element in other mainstream parties like FF etc etc


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    #43
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Rock Climber wrote: »
    Sovtek.
    The entire leadership of that party applaud the IRA campaign which blew up children in warrington.
    They've presented the perpetrators of woefull atrocities at their party conferences to standing ovations.
    Are you prepared to overlook that?

    And what about the atrocities carried out in that war that were facilitated by both Labour and the Tories? What implications does it have for them?


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    #44
    Rock Climber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    sovtek wrote: »
    And what about the atrocities carried out in that war that were facilitated by both Labour and the Tories? What implications does it have for them?
    Would you answer my question first.
    I didnt start out at the point where I said something in support of one or the other,you did.
    So are you prepared to overlook SF/IRA atrocities then? And if so why?

    We can deal with the whataboutery at some other point in the discussion.


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    #45
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Rock Climber wrote: »
    Would you answer my question first.

    I already did. Are you going to answer mine?


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    #46
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    BurnsCarpenter wrote: »
    People are pretty comfortable in general.
    There's a direct correlation between ownership of flat screen TVs and likelihood of protesting in the streets.

    I think this is it. Spoiled affluent middle class people don't have much to complain about.


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    #47
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Húrin wrote: »
    I think this is it. Spoiled affluent middle class people don't have much to complain about.

    Middle class in Ireland is near poverty most other places in the first world. :P


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    #48
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    sovtek wrote: »
    Middle class in Ireland is near poverty most other places in the first world. :P

    odd statement sovtek, care to elaborate further?


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    #49
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    odd statement sovtek, care to elaborate further?

    Was kinda joking but just what I said. You have to make a high salary in Ireland to live decently. The buying power of the yo yo in Ireland is dire.


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