British Army Infantry training

Pathfinder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P84VjFqj8mo&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8H75Lp-wCY&feature=related


Standard infantry BFT, consists of 1.5 miles in DPMs/boots 10.30. (Paras 9.30).

8 mile march, 45 lbs kit + weapon ...2 hours. (Paras do a 20 miler)

Firemans carry 100m ..1 minute.

(same for TA infantry units).

Pathfinder

It can't be denied British army infantry BFT has got easier, in the old days it 10 miles x 2, 10 miles on two consecutive days. Now its an 8 miler.

The reason being, the playstation generation don't want to join.

Pathfinder

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

The Paras may be hated, they win battles, thats the bottom line.

Its impossible that members of a unit around 80 strong can be arctic and mountain warfare specialists/ mountain troop specialists, long range patrol/ Mobility Troop specialists, jungle warfare specialists, boat troop/dive op specialists, HALO/Air Troop specialists,signal specialists, CRW/black op/intelligence specialists.........the maths don't add up.



SBS have to go through Hereford selection first.

Their training is comprehsive, this is why I questioned the training of the ARW, you don't have the manpower to be specialists in all thats claimed and most members only serve three years.

Training

Qualification as an SBS Swimmer Canoeist involves an extensive training course, building on the skills gained during SF Selection at Hereford. Training includes:

• Diving both closed and open circuit - candidates swim underwater for miles in poor visibility completing complex navigational tasks and employment exercises
• Parachuting static line
• Demolition
• Infiltration of ships, in harbour and whilst under way, and oil platforms
• Canoeing - Use of the Klepper canoe during selection is extensive
• Further survival training in the wilds of Scotland
• Beach reconnaissance including photography
• Maritime Counter-Terrorism activities

Fratton Fred

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

that is because they are gentlemen of the "senior Service" not common pongos.

eroo

the maths don't add up.

Who the **** said anything about maths?:p

Seriously,your just a Para(supposedly) you have no authority saying which SF unit is better...just like I don't.

You have a REALLY bad attitude that I don't think even the Para's would encourage...the attitude of a dick..

Btw,how do you know SAS/RM selection is so tough that ARW selection is a doddle compared to it?Have you ever went on these selections?NO,you haven't..

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

Pathfinder

Its impossible for a unit which is less then a company to do all those tasks as specialists as claimed.

I'm not talking about doing a bit here and there, I mean proper SAS or Delta standard (I say SAS because they wrote the book on this stuff) specialists, especially with such limited experience and equipment.

Pathfinder

SAS selection test week, after three weeks of exhausting marches and runs, 4 hours sleep per night, lectures, navigation exercises and putting foreign weapons together.



SAS selection.Test Week

SAS selection test week, after three weeks of exhausting marches and runs, navigation exercises and putting foreign weapons together.

Test week consists basically of six marches, the first being 17 miles long requiring the soldier to march with a 30k pack on his back while map reading, marches get longer every day. However, that's not all. Test week culminates in the 'Long Drag'; a 45-mile march across mountinous terrain which has to be completed in 20 hours.


The Long Drag is a slang term referring to the event that is the culmination of the Fitness and Navigation phase of selection for the British Special Air Service. The event is also known simply as Endurance. It is a 45 mile hike over the Brecon Beacons of Wales. Candidates carry a pack that weighs 55 lbs, not including water, food or rifle, and they must complete the route in less than 20 hours. The candidates cannot use trails and all navigation is done by map, compass and memorized grid references. The event is made harder because the candidates are already exhausted by the previous four weeks' marches and runs.[1]

Pathfinder

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

Most people quit SAS selection due to injury,

All that white noise interogation stuff is aload of bollox, getting your head kicked in by MPs is alot more scary.

Pathfinder

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

Royal Marines..................<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

Before selection week starts candiates are worn down with a 12 mile yomp/march carrying 102lbs of kit

The infamous 30 miler yomp/run..full fighting order.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9egBbD_sRA8

Assault course


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Htn...eature=related




The Commando Course

The culmination of training is a period known as the Commando Course. Following the Royal Marines taking on responsibility for the Commando Role with the disbandment of the Army Commandos at the end of World War II, all Royal Marines, except those in the Royal Marines Band Service, complete the Commando course as part of their training (see below). Key aspects of the course include climbing and ropework techniques, patrolling, and amphibious operations.
This intense phase ends with a series of tests which have remained virtually unchanged since World War II. Again, these tests are done with a "fighting order" of 32 lb (14.5kg) of equipment.
The commando tests are taken on consecutive days; they include;

• A nine-mile (14.5 km) speed march, carrying full fighting order, to be completed in 90 minutes; the pace is thus 10 minutes per mile (6 min/km or 6 mph).

• The Endurance course is a six mile, (9.65 km), course across rough terrain at Woodbury Common near Lympstone, which includes tunnels, pipes, wading pools, and an underwater culvert. The course ends with a four-mile (6 km) run back to CTCRM. Followed by a marksmanship test, where the recruit must hit 6 out of 10 shots at a target representing a fig. 11 target at 200 m. To be completed in 73 minutes (71 minutes for Royal Marine officers), these times were recently increased by one minute as the route of the course was altered. The Course ends at the 25m range where the recruit must then put at least 6 out of 10 shots on target without cleaning their weapon.

• The Tarzan Assault Course. This is an assault course combined with an aerial confidence test. It starts with a death slide and ends with a rope climb up a thirty foot vertical wall. It must be completed with full fighting order in 13 minutes, 12 minutes for Royal Marine officers. The Potential Officers Course also includes confidence tests from the Tarzan Assault Course, although not with equipment.

• The Thirty miler. This is a 30 mile (48 km) march across Dartmoor, wearing fighting order, and additional safety equipment. It must be completed in 8 hours for recruits and 7 hours for Royal Marine officers, who must also navigate the route themselves, rather than following a DS with the rest of a syndicate and carry their own equipment.

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

elvis jaffacake

Most people quit SAS selection due to injury,

All that white noise interogation stuff is aload of bollox, getting your head kicked in by MPs is alot more scary.

do they now?, ok you wouldn't mind me working you over for 48 hours, since it's so easy, there was that Officer about 12 years ago, in a sig, unit, not SF, he went through a wet bush E&E exercise, they were a "prone to capture unit", he had a metal breakdown during the talk, apparantly it was quite something to see, he retired a few weeks later.....thats happened more then once.

eroo

I think you have forgotten one vital thing..it isn't how fit they are that makes them elite..it is how they perform as SOLDIERS!Fitness is one side of it..

elvis jaffacake

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>
BTW where in 3 Para did you carry said exercise?
<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

Pathfinder

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

Hankley common on E and E exercises.


You have obviously never done it, its well over rated, any sane person just has to keep telling themself its all a game. The worse that will happen is a panic attack, if taken too seriously, which is why people quit.

Its not like they can really torture you.

Getting you ribs broken and hands stamped on by MPs is a different ball game.

elvis jaffacake

Oh one last thing PF, while on the common, did the run go down the Zebra road?

bunny shooter

Are the SBS not part and/or attached to the Royal Marines ?

Cato

is there that big a difference to irish army training and british? i would have though they would be more or less similar...

bunny shooter

I knew it ...........

see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Special_Forces

newby.204

could you tell me bunny?:D

minidazzler

<snip> Off Topic Crap and personal abuse <snip>
Pain is a Barrier anyone can come over torture is a Different Ball Game.
Wounds Heal and Scars are forgotten about but the mental Damage of 5 days of torture fecks you up good.
If you got it dont then it wasnt done correctly.

I may be young but I could torture you and make you scream for mammy.
Torture is Mental and EVERYBODY I dont care how strong and fit you are EVERYBODY has a point.

LSD is not as scary as you think. It is just an 8 hour mind feck. True torture needs nothing at all except an antagonist and a victim.

You <snip> disrespect people who have gone through real torture. Please show a little humanity and stop acting tough. You are most likely Not a Para.

The only way you will be believed is two Pics.
One with the Reg back when you were and one from today with a newspaper.

bunny shooter

newby.204 wrote: »

could you tell me what in the link to wiki that you provided explained it all cause my brain was like jelly and i couldnt find what you were on about!!

SBS are part of Royal Marines, not SAS, as Pathfinder claimed ?

newby.204

sound

elvis jaffacake

<snip> Off Topic Crap <snip>

I'll put this up for people who care, I'm not looking for responses, but here it goes, Back in the mid-late 80's the regiment (SAS) started going through a rapid growth in what was called the "Parasisation", basically, there are only so many slot's on the SC twice per year, and bit by bit they were being taken by Para's, so you had guy's who would often come to selection from the trades/guards/infantry/Tanks ect ect getting pushed off,
so we go on and on, eventually by the early 90's the cadre is virtually all Para's, at one stage almost 90%, any how then this little thing called "creeping excellence" started to forment, standards/expectations of performance were nudging up selection by selection, the cadre demanded more and more out of the men, so their came that one glorious year in the late 90's when one the continuation...there was 2 guy's, 163 men started 2 were left, ironically only one was a Para, but I digress, so it was no even financially visable to do continuation untill the next bunch made it, they were a little luckier, about half a dozen made it, so they had just enough to go on, anyway, there was a review by the CO of the Regiment and from the DSF, and they made some interesting finding's, the bitch that was "creeping excellence" menat that guy's on said selection previously, were being put under demands by the cadre, that the cadre itself would find difficult, and didn't infact face themselves in selection,
the investigation actually had graphs/charts made up of requirements Vs expectations, they calculated that if it went on, some time in the close future, guy's would almost have to run endurence to get the time, because as the route was altered bit by bit it got a little longer and a little longer but the time was the same and the "spread" ie if a guy was showing to be giving it all but came in a little over time but was given the benefit, got smaller and smaller, the more "shocking" fact was though that personality started to creep into the decison making process...Paras started overruling the few non Paras on cadre in favour of their own, often guy's they knew, they seemed to get that little bit more lax treatment then the "crap hats", so very long long story cut down, selection was rejigged, there is now a "quota" of Paras to non Paras on cadre, this is easier now because of joint UKSFS means there are Royals/and other commando's on board, the regime as come a long way back to normalcy, this does not mean selection is easier, it just means it was returned to the fairer system it was, every man get's his chance, and every man is judged on merit, not Badge/beret/service, even a few Rocks and Matelot's have made it through in the last few years:D

Blazher

elvis jaffacake wrote: »

No don' go there, that is not the point of this at all.......your just giving ammo to the trolls, the CTC is just that a competition, people compete it's some "fun", it does not donate the best of anything....:(

50/50 Mate.

First :: They are tested on MarksmanShip, Fitness, Tactics etc etc.

For a unit to win this they need to be able to deal with alot of tasks, Real world tasks at that.

Second :: I will agree with you its not the same as the real thing, But since non of us are ever going to know what a SF unit has done or are going to do. Its the only way we can judge.

r3nu4l

<snip>

Okay, well here's a link to the Guardians "Official British Army Fitness Program". This is part of infantry training too

Quis Separabit

elvis jaffacake wrote: »

We need a kid to show us the light;) succinctly put lad, far far better then I managed.


I'll put this up for people who care, I'm not looking for responses, but here it goes, Back in the mid-late 80's the regiment (SAS) started going through a rapid growth in what was called the "Parasisation", basically, there are only so many slot's on the SC twice per year, and bit by bit they were being taken by Para's, so you had guy's who would often come to selection from the trades/guards/infantry/Tanks ect ect getting pushed off,
so we go on and on, eventually by the early 90's the cadre is virtually all Para's, at one stage almost 90%, any how then this little thing called "creeping excellence" started to forment, standards/expectations of performance were nudging up selection by selection, the cadre demanded more and more out of the men, so their came that one glorious year in the late 90's when one the continuation...there was 2 guy's, 163 men started 2 were left, ironically only one was a Para, but I digress, so it was no even financially visable to do continuation untill the next bunch made it, they were a little luckier, about half a dozen made it, so they had just enough to go on, anyway, there was a review by the CO of the Regiment and from the DSF, and they made some interesting finding's, the bitch that was "creeping excellence" menat that guy's on said selection previously, were being put under demands by the cadre, that the cadre itself would find difficult, and didn't infact face themselves in selection,
the investigation actually had graphs/charts made up of requirements Vs expectations, they calculated that if it went on, some time in the close future, guy's would almost have to run endurence to get the time, because as the route was altered bit by bit it got a little longer and a little longer but the time was the same and the "spread" ie if a guy was showing to be giving it all but came in a little over time but was given the benefit, got smaller and smaller, the more "shocking" fact was though that personality started to creep into the decison making process...Paras started overruling the few non Paras on cadre in favour of their own, often guy's they knew, they seemed to get that little bit more lax treatment then the "crap hats", so very long long story cut down, selection was rejigged, there is now a "quota" of Paras to non Paras on cadre, this is easier now because of joint UKSFS means there are Royals/and other commando's on board, the regime as come a long way back to normalcy, this does not mean selection is easier, it just means it was returned to the fairer system it was, every man get's his chance, and every man is judged on merit, not Badge/beret/service,
even a few Rocks and Matelot's have made it through in the last few years:D

Complete bull****, Paras have always made up between 50-60 % of SAS members. Guardsmen around 20%,(when the guards has a parachute brigade the figure was higher), Royals the rest. Royal Marines have historically served with SBS, who do the same phase 1 selection and test week as the same as the SAS.

Selection is not "rigged".

SAS test week has remained the same, the drop out rate during phase 1 selection and test week, remains around 90% and always has.

Hagar

As you can see the thread has been tidied up. 87 posts down to 26, a disgrace. Stay on topic.

Next time I'll be deleting posters not posts.:mad:

elvis jaffacake

edited, should not have put some of that on the net, sorry.

Quis you win your compleatly right on every thing...so there you go,.saviour it.

elvis jaffacake

And thats me done, if anyone replies to me, it'll be a few months before I can respond, so PM me and I'll answer some time in the Summer, if any questions, I'll reply as much as I can with out going into detail's too much, Good luck, stay safe, I may meet some of my fellow Paddies out in dusty places.

Manic Moran

Months?

What god-forsaken part of the world are you going to?

NTM

elvis jaffacake

Manic Moran wrote: »

Months?

What god-forsaken part of the world are you going to?

NTM

Ghanners;), but I won't be on website's, the most I'll be doing is responding to emails from F&F....anyhow luck all.

Quis Separabit

Going back to the claim the reason that there are more Paras in the SAS is due to favouritism.

Not actually true, the reality is if you serve in a unit which regularly carries weight over hills 20miles +, SAS selection is less of a step up then for standard infantry regiment soldiers, simple as that. (Paras go into SAS selection fitter).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2YHKL-ztw&feature=related


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