Feminism - Your thoughts on it.

Zulu

taconnol wrote: »

Zulu you are totally missing my point and misrepresenting what I say. I don't actually give a damn about talking to these people or not.

I'm not. You made this case - I'm refuting it because I don't agree. For example:

It's about being regularly excluded from conversations by certain people. If that person is a colleageue - whatever, their loss. If that person is my boss & the person in charge of my promotion? You bet I give a damn about it.

I get left out, and have been left out of many such conversations because I hate soccer, it bores the shit out of me. I also much prefer small breasts.
However, I don't blame anyone else. I get involved when I can. I change the conversation when I can. I strike up other conversations when I can. All in all, I get on with everyone I work with.
You see, I get on with it because it's human nature.

You need to realise that these little boys clubs contribute to stopping women getting ahead. You choose to see it as petty and turn a blind eye. Fine.

No I don't. Men discussing a topic of interest isn't a "little boys club soley charged with keeping women in their place". In fact, modern industery (from all my experience) is soley interested in money and results. It couldn't give a tupenny fuck about sex.

People who experience and experience the negative consequences have a different opinion on the matter. Exclusion from informal networking has been recognised as one of the main barriers to women's progression in the workplace. It's quite insulting to call the issue petty

Are we talking "about not being allowed" exclusion, or "they talk about stuff so I don't get involved so thats sexist", because the former is a problem, but one I've never seen or heard of myself, except by heresay, whereas the latter is the one I taught we were discussing and is very petty indeed.

I'm not saying these guys are evil or even doing it consciously a lot of the time and there has been stories of women doing the same so its obviously human nature.

You say that like you don't believe it! :eek:
It happens. I've had more than one lunch hour devoted to Sex in the City, in which I haven't been able to say a word.

Macha

Zulu wrote: »

So what? They go silent to allow you to talk, and thats bad? What do you want them to do? If you can't make friends with them, perhaps it's a personality thing, not a sex issue.

Zulu, I'm not discussing this with you because you're choosing not to understand what I mean.

Zulu wrote: »

But thats YOUR opinion of school. People have friends from home etc. and other ways to develop social skills. You are projecting your own negativity on to a child.
How do you know if it's any different in a single sex school?

Because I went to a fantastic, normal co-ed primary school. Because I talk about it with friends of mine who went to mixed secondary schools & because I talk about it with friends of mine who went to my school and other single sex secondary schools.

Zulu wrote: »

You see I could take offence to this, and cry about it: men talk about more than just big tits/thats a prejudice stereotype. This is part of the issue I have with elite groups - they breed stereotypes like this one.

Ugh I'm not generalising or making a sterotype. I'm talking about something that actually happened-I'm not making it up in order to perpetuate a sterotype :rolleyes: Really your posts are becoming more and more churlish.

Zulu wrote: »

You'll never make friend with people unless you join in; you'll never change the conversation unless you participate.
Accusing them of "subtle sexism", and only talking about big tits, coupled with indirectly labelling them sexist isn't going to help you fit in.

I had 3 options in that situation. I could either try to steer the conversation another way (tried a few times & gave up), put on my lesbian hat & join in (thanks but no thanks) or just not waste another hour of my time & go home (bingo).

Zulu wrote: »

Well you should be, because I'm a member of the same society you are trying to change.

I'm not bothered, Zulu, because I'd rather debate it with people like farohar who have an ability to dicuss the issue without dismissing the other person's opinions in the condescending way that you do. I think you just have a problem with the world feminism & every time this topic comes up you come rushing down to challenge any female who claims to be discriminated against in a systematic way. It's quite tiring & pointless for me to debate you, as you seem to have little inclination to actually change your opinion, despite any evidence offered.

Edit: God who dragged this thread up again? This thread feels like groundhog day

Zulu

OK, fine taconnol, dismiss me and any of the points I'm making as churlish. If you can't accept someone challenging your opinion thats fine.

I hope the irony of how you have just treated my point isn't lost.

Reku

taconnol wrote: »

Edit: God who dragged this thread up again? This thread feels like groundhog day

Agree 100%
If for nothing else in life this thread does make me feel it'd be a good thing to be able to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes", help me understand peoples' views on these issues better as if there's one thing this thread has convinced me of it's that until we can do that the issue as to where genuine discrimination on gender exists or not will not be resolved.

lol, come to think of it while using the bathroom in work this morning the ladies one happened to be open as I passed. Didn't get a proper look but by the dimensions the room appeared to be there could be at most 2 cubicles, the mens have 2 cubicles and 3 urinals, this brought the thought of is it discrimination?
There are fewer female staff than male so should there be fewer female toilets, or would an equal number of each be fairer. Aiming for equality can and will wreck your head at times.;)